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Silverstone RV04/FT04 - Back Again

W

WorldExclusive

[H]F Junkie
2FA
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
11,556
Video Of Cases via Hexus.com
http://hexus.net/tv/show/2012/06/SilverStone_s_new_Raven_lands_at_Computex_2012

RV04

6ah2N.jpg


FT04

ubIzI.jpg


More Photos
Source: http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...one-unveils-the-raven-rv04-and-fortress-ft04/

epzxa.jpg


W3RKI.jpg


mXiXc.jpg
 
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Looking forward to seeing this, Silverstone's vertical layout is always interesting
 
I just bought a ft02, loving it. I'm a sucker for the looks of it. But if i was air cooling only I probly would have saved a few bucks and went with a raven instead. The layout just makes sense to me.
 
Gah, now I need to wait for this thing to come out! I have always been a massive fan of the Raven line.
 
Cruiza said:
Agreed. It baffles me that no one else has done something similar.
Click to expand...

Not really. You put 3 180mm fans in feeding a standard ATX tower from the front and it will have the same temps. The rate at which hot air rises is completely overwhelmed by fan airflow.
 
Looking forward to seeing this. What I'm really crossing my fingers for though is a slightly taller and WC friendly FT02.
 
I love my RV03. The vertical layout is great for people like me who get OCD about large video cards bending in traditional horizontal layouts :)
 
Skripka said:
Not really. You put 3 180mm fans in feeding a standard ATX tower from the front and it will have the same temps. The rate at which hot air rises is completely overwhelmed by fan airflow.
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Yeah, but I also love the fact that all the connections are on the top of the case. Makes access easier - in my setup anyway.
 
+1 I'd like to see this as well.

Maybe it will lead to a new FT04 model, much like RV02 -> FT02.

I keep hoping Silverstone will make an FT- model with a layout similar to the Maingear Shift / RV01, but with 3 AP181s across the midplane instead of 2, with 8 expansion slots, and a left-facing mobo area.

There is no way I am paying $900+ for just the Shift chassis though:

http://www.maingear.com/boutique/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1007
 
I hope they go back to the RV02 design with the panel of the "wrong" side. I want the good looking side of my graphics card(s) facing the front.
 
Skripka said:
Not really. You put 3 180mm fans in feeding a standard ATX tower from the front and it will have the same temps. The rate at which hot air rises is completely overwhelmed by fan airflow.
Click to expand...

Not if the case is still a typical ATX tower that has the hard drive cage in the front of the case or anything else that restricts the airflow or increases the distance between the fans and the components. In the Inverted ATX design Silverstone uses the 180mm Air Penetrator fans are directly under the motherboard, CPU, and graphics cards with nothing to restrict direct airflow on the components.
 
burningrave101 said:
Not if the case is still a typical ATX tower that has the hard drive cage in the front of the case or anything else that restricts the airflow or increases the distance between the fans and the components. In the Inverted ATX design Silverstone uses the 180mm Air Penetrator fans are directly under the motherboard, CPU, and graphics cards with nothing to restrict direct airflow on the components.
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Yeah didn't the H have an article on this design a while back and the pro's and con's of it? I think Kyle may have published it after the GTX480 heaters came out.
 
Skripka said:
Not really. You put 3 180mm fans in feeding a standard ATX tower from the front and it will have the same temps. The rate at which hot air rises is completely overwhelmed by fan airflow.
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You mean like that one case that doesn't exist?
 
Skripka said:
Not really. You put 3 180mm fans in feeding a standard ATX tower from the front and it will have the same temps. The rate at which hot air rises is completely overwhelmed by fan airflow.
Click to expand...

Cruiza said:
You mean like that one case that doesn't exist?
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The closest I've ever seen to fitting with that description are the Lian Li Tyr PC-X2000 cases. 3x 140mm fans blowing in from the front. Same concept, but Lian Li left it in a traditional upright layout. I had the original PC-X2000 back in the day in the form of the ABS Canyon 695 and it was a really nice case with good thermals.

I find the 90* Silverstone layout to still be a little better though for many reasons.
 
Imitation said:
Yeah didn't the H have an article on this design a while back and the pro's and con's of it? I think Kyle may have published it after the GTX480 heaters came out.
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Yes, Kyle did a write-up on how much of a difference the RV02 made when running SLI'ed GTX 480s :

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/30/my_quiet_galaxy_geforce_gtx_480_sli_build


Some of my own limited testing backs this up.

I have two GPUGrid crunching boxes at the office. One is an FT02 with 3x GTX 465s in it all sandwiched together. The other is a TJ09 modified to have a super high power Y.S. Tech 120x38mm fan in the front and another in the side window, both blowing at full speed directly over another GTX 465 and 2x GTX 295s, again all sandwiched together.

When comparing the temps at 100% load between the GTX 465s in the first slot of each computer, the one in the FT02 consistently runs 3* degrees cooler and ~9 - 11% lower fan speeds than the one in the TJ09 case - and that's even with the two high-powered fans blowing directly on it in the TJ09. The one difference is that the PCB temp in the TJ09 is lower than the FT02, but I think that's b/c the sensor is on the back of the card so it's having more air directed over it in the TJ09 compared to the FT02.

In any case, I am believer in the updraft heat stack method Silverstone uses based on Kyle's article and my results..
 
Ketzer said:
The closest I've ever seen to fitting with that description are the Lian Li Tyr PC-X2000 cases. 3x 140mm fans blowing in from the front. Same concept, but Lian Li left it in a traditional upright layout. I had the original PC-X2000 back in the day in the form of the ABS Canyon 695 and it was a really nice case with good thermals.

I find the 90* Silverstone layout to still be a little better though for many reasons.
Click to expand...

You dont need to worry about your big graphics cards bending when they hang vertically.

Also, cable management is much easier with everything at the bottom.
 
Ketzer said:
Yes, Kyle did a write-up on how much of a difference the RV02 made when running SLI'ed GTX 480s :

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/30/my_quiet_galaxy_geforce_gtx_480_sli_build


Some of my own limited testing backs this up.

I have two GPUGrid crunching boxes at the office. One is an FT02 with 3x GTX 465s in it all sandwiched together. The other is a TJ09 modified to have a super high power Y.S. Tech 120x38mm fan in the front and another in the side window, both blowing at full speed directly over another GTX 465 and 2x GTX 295s, again all sandwiched together.

When comparing the temps at 100% load between the GTX 465s in the first slot of each computer, the one in the FT02 consistently runs 3* degrees cooler and ~9 - 11% lower fan speeds than the one in the TJ09 case - and that's even with the two high-powered fans blowing directly on it in the TJ09. The one difference is that the PCB temp in the TJ09 is lower than the FT02, but I think that's b/c the sensor is on the back of the card so it's having more air directed over it in the TJ09 compared to the FT02.

In any case, I am believer in the updraft heat stack method Silverstone uses based on Kyle's article and my results..
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your test isn't scientific in the least - you're comparing apples to oranges. You have different fans, a different layout, different fan locations - it's not really a useful test.

I have an FT02 for one of my rigs (X58-based Core i7 950, GTX 580 GPU), so I decided to test it after reading this. I ran 30 minutes of Furmark and Prime 95 64-bit, logged the temps, then turned the case vertically (so the motherboard would be in the typical orientation) and ran the same test again for 30 more minutes. This system has been built for 3 months so all the TIM is cured and everything.

I got no difference in temps. Logged with AIDA 64 for the full 30 minutes each time, average temps were within .1-.2C on CPU, GPU, MBD, etc. Down to accuracy of the test results.

I don't think vertical stack has any relevance in cooling. The performance benefit is from the fans blowing directly over the GPUs from 2" away.
 
I never claimed or stated it was scientific in nature. I only related my observations between the two setups with the same cards in each case performing the same task. Fine, I guess I should have rephrased my statement and not called it a 'test' but rather an armchair comparison. Is that better? It was nothing more than that - I didn't set out to build these specifically to perform a 'test' between the two to prove the FT02 was better or worse. I just happened to have both cases on hand and with similar hardware installed.

If your contention is that the FT02 is only performing well because the fans in it are 2" away from the GPUs, then I would submit the TJ09 isn't all that different. Look at where the front/mid fan is in the TJ09 - it's about the same 2" away (Ok, maybe 3") from the GPUs - its whole point in the design was that it was moved to be closer to the GPUs. Not to mention the additional 120 in the side window is even closer than that blowing directly on the GPUs.

My point was precisely that they were different, and in that regard my expectation was that the TJ09 with more powerful fans directed straight at the GPUs would actually have performed better than the FT02, but that's not what I see when looking at the temps between the two comparable 465s.

You don't see a difference, great; I'm sorry what I related bothers you. Again, it was just my personal observation between the two layouts - take it with a gain of salt or not at all then. Besides this is thread derail at this point..
 
Isn't hot air blowing upwards and out in a case a good thing overall for /all/ components?
 
Ketzer said:
I never claimed or stated it was scientific in nature. I only related my observations between the two setups with the same cards in each case performing the same task. Fine, I guess I should have rephrased my statement and not called it a 'test' but rather an armchair comparison. Is that better? It was nothing more than that - I didn't set out to build these specifically to perform a 'test' between the two to prove the FT02 was better or worse. I just happened to have both cases on hand and with similar hardware installed.

If your contention is that the FT02 is only performing well because the fans in it are 2" away from the GPUs, then I would submit the TJ09 isn't all that different. Look at where the front/mid fan is in the TJ09 - it's about the same 2" away (Ok, maybe 3") from the GPUs - its whole point in the design was that it was moved to be closer to the GPUs. Not to mention the additional 120 in the side window is even closer than that blowing directly on the GPUs.

My point was precisely that they were different, and in that regard my expectation was that the TJ09 with more powerful fans directed straight at the GPUs would actually have performed better than the FT02, but that's not what I see when looking at the temps between the two comparable 465s.

You don't see a difference, great; I'm sorry what I related bothers you. Again, it was just my personal observation between the two layouts - take it with a gain of salt or not at all then. Besides this is thread derail at this point..
Click to expand...

Sorry man - just re-read my post and it came across like I was a douchebag, I didn't mean to seem like such a dick. My comments were the following:

The TJ09 has a single 120mm fan with side intakes blowing directly over the GPUs.
The FT02 has three 180mm air penetrator fans blowing directly over the GPUs and motherboard.

The other elements of the case play a part, too. The side panel of the FT02, the length to exhaust, the exhaust fan on top/back, etc. There are tons of potential things that could affect performance, so comparing two completely different cases is interesting, but not really helpful if what we're doing is testing the layout as a performance benefit.

Silverstone claims that the "stack" cooling, chimney-effect stuff works because hot air rises. While this is true, it's easily overcome by even the smallest of fans. The analogy I read somewhere was a match in an airplane hangar. Sure, the air above the match is warmer than the air below it, but it's not affecting the air at the top of the hangar, 50 feet up, and you can easily breathe above the match lightly and move the heat laterally.

My test I did out of curiosity - and it's actually a pretty valid test. Exact same hardware, room temp was about the same and accounted for (temps were delta T) so it compares the issue of the orientation - which is what I was concerned about.

I loved the TJ09 back in 2005 - one of the best looking cases out there at the time, and with good cooling too. But using it to compare against the FT02, which is what, 4-5 years newer and has easily 3x-4x the airflow, even if you upgrade the 120mm GPU fan in the TJ09 to some 150CFM monster, you're not going to get any real results.

One thing was evident during my test - the FT02 intake fans are much quieter when they are pointed out the ground instead of the "front" of the case. So the FT02 is a great case for cooling most systems, and it's fairly quiet while doing it.
 
This case will be released in Q4. So October at the earliest.
AP182 have been delayed but will be in the RV04.
 
WorldExclusive said:
I wanted anted to try other cases. The FT02 is still the best case I've owned though.
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Yea for me it's the FT02 and X2000F. The X2000F is nice but not worth the premium over the FT02.

And of course now I want the FT04 or the X2000FN. And once again the X2000FN will prove too much compared to the FT04.
 
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NeoDiNardo said:
And of course now I want the RV04 or the X2000F V2.

Can't justify a X2000F as the new one is coming.
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Do you have any info or pics about a new X2000F? Curious to see what they have changed in it.. I had the original X2000 in the form of the ABS Canyon 695 a while back, and really liked it, but sold it as a complete computer and don't have it anymore.. Been sticking to the FT02 for now.
 
New photos added to OP.

I would be great if Tony can comment on the new direction the RV/FT series is going in.
 
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Where are the 5.25 bays? Does the front act like a door? Nice gpu support bracket. Gpus are free to run the length of the case.
 
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Looks nice. Can't wait to see some temp comparisons between RV3 and the upcoming RV4
 
NeoDiNardo said:
Where are the 5.25 bays?
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Bottom front.

The new AP182 fans are installed, which are adjustable up to 2000rpm.
The higher rpm could result in better cooling overall than the FT02. SS has claimed this.

swatX said:
^^ Cmon man, no need to quote pictures again.

You guys think that front panel is made of plastic? Because that would suck.
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Not sure, but I doubt it is.
 
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