Silent loop - advice please

[adrift02]

So I am finally building my first loop (got my stacker for it like a year ago ) and need some advice on parts. My specs are in the sig, I want to include my GPU+CPU in the loop and would like it to be fanless. The parts I am looking at currently are:

CPU = MC-TDX $59.95
GPU = MAZE5 $42.95
RAD = Stealth GTS 360 Black Ice $56.95
PUMP = DD12V-D5 $91.45
Res = Fillport Reservoir $14.95

Total = $266.25

MY setup currently includes a cpu fan, front and side intakes, 1 back exhaust, and another blowing down on my ram. Hopefully I can have a silent loop with only a front, exhaust, and ram fan left. Will this work? I get good temps with air but would like to push my overclocks more so (cooling) performance is a concern. Feel free to recommend other parts that will get the job done. And the 3x120 rad is because I got the perfect case for it and might go crossfire in the future (so no 2x/1x).

 

[nightwalker]

go for the swiftech 320 rad it performs better with quieter fans.... obviously the thermochill 120.3 rad would be the best but it costs at least double what a regular 320 rad does for that little bit more gain.

 

[amoeba1126]

GTX 360 is also good!

 

[adrift02]

But how would it perform with no fans? Would that kill my temps with the gpu and cpu in the same loop?

 

[E.E.L. Ambiense]

Agreed on the MCR-320 instead. But if you already have the GTS, that's cool too.

You want to run a loop with the CPU and GPU fanless, correct? I know from first-hand experience with a GTS360 I ran an E6600 OC'ed to 3.2 with virtually no voltage bump passive, and temps barely moved up (maybe 1-2 degrees). Of course I didn't run it long like that, lol. With the GPU, you may be pushing things, if you want to run passive. Also depends on ambient in the room, etc. You really need some air moving, or heat exchangers can't, well, exchange the heat!

Honestly, you can slap some fans on there that make virtually no distinguishable noise or pretty close to undetectable. And you'd probably be better off anyways. My $.02.

Edit: spelling, lol.

 

[Arcygenical]

Ok... Let's start with some numbers. I'm assuming we're cooling the loop in your sig.

e6600 @ 3ghz @ 1.35v will be producing nearly 100w of heat.
HD4850 will be producing around 100w of heat.
This means you've got at least 200w of heat to get rid of.

Now, let's talk components... And what we need to do to get rid of 200w of heat.

First off get a Dtek Fuzion instead of the DD block... It performs better.
Now, I'd definitely get a Swiftech MCR320 instead of the GTS stealth rads (they blow...).
Don't get the fillport reservoir, as it allows water to lay stagnant in the actual reservoir it's self.

The MCR320 with 3 1200rpm fans running at 1200rpm will remove around 450w of heat.
The MCR320 with 3 1200rpm fans running at 600rpm will remove around 225w of heat.
The MCR320 with 0 fans will remove around 100w of heat, so long as you allow for convection.

As you can see, running passive won't cut it with a single triple radiator... So, in this case, you can get a second triple radiator, and make sure they're both laying horizontal (to allow for convection currents to provide SOME airflow).

OR, you can run 3 high quality, 1200rpm fans at around 5v which I will personally guarantee to be absolutely silent. My 4 yate loons at 6v are quieter than the stock fan in my Corsair 620HX. And they're definitely quieter than an un-silenced Raptor 150gb.

So, in short, don't go fanless, but instead, go with slow 1200rpm fans at a low voltage (5v) and you'll be fine.

 

[adrift02]

Great info, thanks a bunch for the replies.

So looks like silent isn't an option for me but very quite will be attainable (can't get any worse than my 4850 fan kicking up to 100%).

New list based the input:

?CPU = FuZion v2 $69.95 or EK-Supreme $69.95?
?GPU = MCW60 $46.95 or FuZion v2 $52.95?

PUMP = DD12V-D5 $91.45
RAD = MCR320 $56.95
Res = Swiftech MCRES-MICRO™ Reservoir $19.99

How does this list look? Are these parts a good choice for my cpu/gpu with room for another 4850 down the road? Any input on the GPU/CPU blocks I am considering (I know it often comes to preference with those)? Thanks again for the help.

 

[Arcygenical]

I'd get the Fuzion V2 for the CPU, and the MCW60 for the GPU, but that's just me.

Rest looks good...

If you want to put in another 4850 later, I'd probably get another 120mm radiator in there somewhere... Since you'd require your fans to be at 12v on a single MCR320 to cope with an extra 120w of heat or so... Negating the silence.

 

[adrift02]

Ok, looks like I got my list then.

CPU = FuZion v2 $69.95
GPU = MCW60 $46.95
PUMP = DD12V-D5 $91.45
RAD = MCR320 $56.95
Res = Swiftech MCRES-MICRO™ Reservoir $19.99

Total = $285.29

More then I wanted to spend but other then picking up another 120 rad for another 4850 (120.1 after cpu, 120.3 after gpus right?) I'm set for awhile.

Now to start looking into clamps, tubing, mosfets etc...

Thanks!

 

[veedubfreak]

I'm using the Maze5 on both of my 4870s with a swiftech 320QP and yate loons at just enough voltage to keep them moving and get idle temps of 31/35 and load of aroudn 41/45.

 

[adrift02]

What are you using to cool the rest of the 4870's? (non-core)

 

[AVT]

Make sure you get a quiet pump.

Also, what fans will you be using?

Since you have a Stacker, which will you be using as intake, and which as exhaust?

 

[adrift02]

I overclock a lot on air already so I have like 8 yateloons and 1 silverstone adjustable fan on my cpu that does 110cfm at max (but loud).

Pump as of now is a Swiftech MCP 355 12v DC Pump with the XSPC - Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC top. Since I can't go fanless I picked a better performing pump....don't know about noise with it..

 

[AVT]

110cfm

That's a little under triple the highest I'd ever run in my systems.

If you can tolerate that.. are you sure noise is even a concern for you?

 

[adrift02]

I always have that silverstone turned all the way down.The yate loons are fairly quiet but I was hoping to drop a few of them when I go watercooling...

Edit - Ic you thought I use all 9 fans? Lol I don't think I could find places for that many. I only use the silverstone and 4 other yate loons for side/front intake,back exaust, and memory cooling.

 

[Headpunter]

sounds nice you have any picz of your rig?

 

[veedubfreak]

On the 4870s i'm just using some of the mosfet coolers and ramsinks from petras.

Oh another good thing about the maze5, it fits over the ramsinks without having to bend them all to crap or get low profile ones.

 

[adrift02]

On the 4870s i'm just using some of the mosfet coolers and ramsinks from petras.

Oh another good thing about the maze5, it fits over the ramsinks without having to bend them all to crap or get low profile ones.

Good to hear the sinks are keeping your 4870 cool. I was worried because some people are reporting extremely high temps from the vrm's even with sinks (using gpuz this would be the middle of the three listed temps).

sounds nice you have any picz of your rig?

As it sits with air or watercooled? I can post pics of my current setup...


UPDATE:

If anyone cares at this point I have revised my list and am buying these parts in the next couple days.


D-tek Fuzion V2 = 63.95
Swiftech MCP 355 12v DC Pump = 69.95
XSPC - Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC = 44.95
Swiftech MCR320-QP-K Triple 120mm Radiator = 53.95
Tygon R-3603 1/2" ID 5/8" OD Chemical Tubing 1.95x6 = 11.70
Swiftech MCW60-R VGA cooler = 36.90
Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks = 15.95
Fill syring = 1.99
Bitspower ST Transfer Adapter (NPSM to G 1/4" Converter)x2 = 6.98
Swiftech MC21 Mosfet Heatsinks = 9.95
Dangerden Silver Compression Fitting - 1/2" to 5/8" = 55.60
Fluid XP+ Ultra LT w/ z7 - Non-Conductive 32 oz. = 19.99

Total = 391.86 + shipping.....................ouch

 

[swale]

I roccomend the ddc ultra over the ddc 5 it looks better and is easier to mount, and yes definatley the dtek fusion v2

 

[Arcygenical]

Save yourself some cash and go for some distilled water with a colour additive of your choice... Around a 15$ saving.

You can save some money by getting masterkleer tubing as well... I don't like the 5/8" tygon stuff.

 

[E.E.L. Ambiense]

Save yourself some cash and go for some distilled water with a colour additive of your choice... Around a 15$ saving.

You can save some money by getting masterkleer tubing as well... I don't like the 5/8" tygon stuff.

QFT. Water will always be a good cheap fluid!

 

[MrE]

Sorry, but the first time you get a leak and distilled water hits your gear you are toast. I personally use Feser One fluid. It has the same cooling properties as distilled water without being conductive. Sure you pay $20 a bottle, but I'd take that over a potential disaster.

As far as liking or not liking Masterkleer, its all personal preference. Tygon 6303 is thick! When working with Masterkleer tubing, it felt rubbery and cheap. Again, to each his own.

 

[silent-circuit]

Sorry, but the first time you get a leak and distilled water hits your gear you are toast. I personally use Feser One fluid. It has the same cooling properties as distilled water without being conductive. Sure you pay $20 a bottle, but I'd take that over a potential disaster.

As far as liking or not liking Masterkleer, its all personal preference. Tygon 6303 is thick! When working with Masterkleer tubing, it felt rubbery and cheap. Again, to each his own.

Tygon doesn't stay on barbs on its own. Masterkleer does. That's reason enough for me -- I don't want to have to deal with clamps.

Also, using a 'non conductive' fluid as a safeguard against leaks is nothing but fooling yourself -- it won't be non-conductive in a few months to a year, and what happens then? Thinking "I'm safe, this won't hurt my hardware" is likely to lead to poor leak testing procedure and possibly rushing things as well. If you leak test a loop properly -- 24 hours running in place in the case with no other hardware and paper towels stuffed around to show leaks -- there will be no leaks. Add this to regular reports via threads here and elsewhere of "Oh no my loop leaked all over my stuff it must be dead!" and everything being alright once it's dried out, and your incentive is even further lowered to run anything but distilled and a little anti-fungal additive.

OP -- were I you I'd swap out to a Laing D5 Vario and a t-line. I had a DDC and did not like it at all; it was noticeably louder than my D5 and moved less water, even with Petra's top. I'd also recommend a swap from 1/2" Tygon to 7/16" Masterkleer. Heat up the ends, jam them over 1/2" barbs, and you hardly have to worry about leaks anymore.

 

[swale]

certainly agree that theres no such thing as non conductive fluid.....have had first hand expereince of this :-(

 

[adrift02]

Lol, thread explodes after I pull the trigger .

Here is what I ended up getting. I went the expensive route but considering I will probably add more blocks at some point its fine.

Shipped:

D-tek Fuzion V2
Swiftech MCW60-R VGA cooler
Swiftech MC21 Aluminum MOSFET Heatsinks - 4 pack
Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks
Swiftech MCR320-QP-K Triple 120mm Radiator
Swiftech MCP 355 12v DC Pump
XSPC - Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC
Tygon R-3603 1/2" ID 5/8" OD Chemical Tubing
Dangerden Silver Compression Fitting - 1/2" to 5/8" x8
Bitspower 1/4" NPSM To G1/4 Adapter Ring w/ O-ring x2
Feser One Non Conductive Cooling Fluid - 1000 ml - UV Blue

I know the D5 would have been quieter, but based on martin's flowrate estimator along with other users I have talked to, the ddc3.2 w/ xspc res top provides much better flowrate, allowing for more headroom. Hopefully, I don't end up changing to a quieter pump later...

As for the Feser fluid, I wanted some color, UV was a plus, tests have shown it to be have the best performance next to water+wetter, and it flushes out fairly easy without staining the lines (can't say the same for dye). Non-conductive is pretty much a joke (leaks shouldn't happen if you're careful) so that is just a "bonus".

Let's see, compression fittings was just pure laziness, but I will probably be glad I got em in the end....once I can afford to eat again....only parts I am concerned for are the mosfets and ramsinks as some people have reported bad temps on the vrms with 4850's.

Anyways, thanks for every ones input. I am going to be keeping a worklog if anyone is interested. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=198272
Feel free to comment as I go, I will be getting some of the parts Friday and the rest the following Tuesday.

 

[MrE]

Also, using a 'non conductive' fluid as a safeguard against leaks is nothing but fooling yourself -- it won't be non-conductive in a few months to a year, and what happens then?

Care to explain this? What do you mean its not safe after a few months? I'd really like to see your evidence that what Feser and other manufacturers are selling as non conductive break down after a few months. Its been their selling point which is why its so expensive. If, for example, Feser was putting out a product that fails after a few months, they wouldn't last long in the market place and would probably end up sued.

 

[AVT]

AFAIK, UV won't work with Tygon tubing.

 

[Arcygenical]

Sorry, but the first time you get a leak and distilled water hits your gear you are toast. I personally use Feser One fluid. It has the same cooling properties as distilled water without being conductive. Sure you pay $20 a bottle, but I'd take that over a potential disaster.

As far as liking or not liking Masterkleer, its all personal preference. Tygon 6303 is thick! When working with Masterkleer tubing, it felt rubbery and cheap. Again, to each his own.

Yeah, and 8 months down the line, after paying 20$ a bottle, your system leaks and you have much the same problem... Not worth it.

Tygon 6303 is a fine tubing to work with, but it's nowhere near as secure as masterkleer... nor as cheap. It's got no benefits to it over masterkleer in terms of bend radius or flow rate, so unless you want something crystal clear for a month or two (before it, too, clouds up) I just don't see the point.

 

[MrE]

Yeah, and 8 months down the line, after paying 20$ a bottle, your system leaks and you have much the same problem... Not worth it.

Again, I ask the question, where is the proof that Feser One breaks down after 8 months use? If this were the case, then I doubt this stuff would stay on the market as the company that produces it would be sued for false advertising.

Tygon 6303 is a fine tubing to work with, but it's nowhere near as secure as masterkleer... nor as cheap. It's got no benefits to it over masterkleer in terms of bend radius or flow rate, so unless you want something crystal clear for a month or two (before it, too, clouds up) I just don't see the point.

I did say personal preference in my previous statement. I disagree with your statements about flexibility as I found the Masterkleer to collapse pretty easily on simple bends. I will agree with barb retention though as once the Masterkleer was mounted, it was a bitch to get off the barbs.

 

[adrift02]

AFAIK, UV won't work with Tygon tubing.

Why wouldn't uv work?

 

[Arcygenical]

Again, I ask the question, where is the proof that Feser One breaks down after 8 months use? If this were the case, then I doubt this stuff would stay on the market as the company that produces it would be sued for false advertising.

I did say personal preference in my previous statement. I disagree with your statements about flexibility as I found the Masterkleer to collapse pretty easily on simple bends. I will agree with barb retention though as once the Masterkleer was mounted, it was a bitch to get off the barbs.

It's not so much a degredation of the actual product, but an entrapment of conductive particles and ions, stripped from the loop or deposited in the split coolant (via dust and other nasties on the components themselves) that can increase it's conductivity.

And of course tubing is personal preference . I've made several tight bends with no noticeable kinking (so long as the bend is gentle, or there's enough slack/space to make a pseudo-loop).