Shuttle SX38P2 PRO vs. SP35P2 PRO

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CC_Pirate

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
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I am in the need of a powerful mobile rig (for my brother), and I am considering purchasing one of the most powerful Shuttle barebones.
I considered getting the SP35P2 PRO, put a Penryn Q6600 equivalent (whenever they hit the shelves, BTW, anyone have a date on that?), and a 8800GT in it.

Then I noticed that an X38 version, the SX38P2 PRO is coming out shortly (beginning of December according to TweakTown).

So, I wanted to ask you a few questions about the differences between the two.
First off, is the X38 version any more future proof than the P35? I mean, they both support Penryn and 1333Mhz FSB. The most appealing difference I found in the specs is the 450W PSU on the X38 model (compared to 400W) on the P35 model. I think 400W should be enough for an 8800GT, a quad core, and 1 or 2 drives, but its kinda cutting it, especially if I OC.

I have a X38 board in my big rig, and I'm very happy with it, and naturally I would take the SX38P2 over the P35 model, but I kind of need the system early Dec., and I suspect the SX38P2 will be quite a lot more than the P35 model at release (the SP35P2 is around $460 now).

So, anyone have any other info on the SX38P2 ? Other improvements, release date speculations, price suggestions, etc?

I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks!
 
X38 has 450W PSU because it supports CrossFIre and thus 2x graphics cards. No real benefit if you only plan to run one graphics card, but yes more future proof, sorta. The 400W PSU in the P35 can run a 8800GTX just fine, so nor worries there. Check my sig, no problems at all overclocking with 8800GT (now was there with my GTX I tried using), Raptor, 1TB WD, Q6600 @ 3GHz, 4GB RAM @ 1000MHz, and a Blu-ray optical drive.

In performance testing it has been shown that there are no real advantages to the X38 over the P35 as performance goes. So, they advantage is CrossFire if you plan on using it and that is it IMO.
 
canislupy said:
X38 has 450W PSU because it supports CrossFIre and thus 2x graphics cards. No real benefit if you only plan to run one graphics card, but yes more future proof, sorta. The 400W PSU in the P35 can run a 8800GTX just fine, so nor worries there. Check my sig, no problems at all overclocking with 8800GT (now was there with my GTX I tried using), Raptor, 1TB WD, Q6600 @ 3GHz, 4GB RAM @ 1000MHz, and a Blu-ray optical drive.

In performance testing it has been shown that there are no real advantages to the X38 over the P35 as performance goes. So, they advantage is CrossFire if you plan on using it and that is it IMO.
Click to expand...

Thans. I have no intention of going CrossFire. So there is no real benefit in terms of future proofing? What do you think they will price the X38 model at?

Thanks
 
does the SX38P2 even have dual PCI-Express slots? the only picture of its board on the website didn't look like it did, but that might have just been a pic from another shuttle.

dual AMD HD 3870's could be sweet.
 
Blahman said:
dual AMD HD 3870's could be sweet.
Click to expand...

I dont get the big deal with these cards. Yes, they're a little cheaper, but the 8800GT which can be found for about $50 more beats the crap out of the latest AMDs.

Why would I want to get one? To runn CF? More heat and powerconsumption? I'd rather have one card that performs better.
 
Blahman said:
does the SX38P2 even have dual PCI-Express slots? the only picture of its board on the website didn't look like it did, but that might have just been a pic from another shuttle.

dual AMD HD 3870's could be sweet.
Click to expand...

Lol... 3870's are DUAL SLOT cards, even though the SX38P2 has two PCIe interfaces, you can only get ONE 3870 or TWO 3850's.
 
CC_Pirate said:
Thans. I have no intention of going CrossFire. So there is no real benefit in terms of future proofing? What do you think they will price the X38 model at?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I thought the SX38P2 was going to be $50-100 more than the SP35P2. Not sure though. X48 is essentially going to be replacing all X38 anyway since it actually has speed improvements over P35, but no word from Shuttle yet on whether they will be using this in any upcoming P2 chassis.
 
ok, so 2 dual slot graphic cards would be too much, 2 x HD3870.
How about 1 x HD3870 + 1 x HD3850, anyone know if these would fit in it?
or is it only possible with 2 x HD3850.
 
interesting point. its true that crossfire cards don't have to match, right?

you could also possibly put on an aftermarket single slot cooler to get two 3870's in there.
 
:confused: Please, I beg of you, stop the insanity.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/8422/shuttle_sx38p2_pro_in_time_for_christmas/index.html

Does it look like you can get more than 2x single slot cards in there? Has anyone ever seen the SN26P, let alone a Shuttle here? :rolleyes:

Yes, if you could get an after-market single slot cooler for the 3870 that actually worked (why do you think it is dual slot design and at lower clocks than originally rumored? Hot? Hmm...), then yes, you can do dual 3870's in theory (I say theory because the PSU will become the long pole).
 
For the people interested, I emailed three different Shuttle HQs (US, EU, and Taiwan) about the SX38P2 last week.
I got a reply from the EU headquarters:
"..
Thank you for choosing Shuttle products. The SX38P2 Pro official releasing date will be just right before Christmas. You may get it from UK website at the end of the year. Here it is for your reference.

http://www.ebuyer.com
http://www.microdirect.co.uk
.."

I will be getting the P35 version sometime this week, as I can't wait for the X38, and the improvements are minimal. Can't run CrossFire anyways.
 
Rumor is the X48 Shuttle will be a little larger and accomodate two dual-slot graphics cards. Maybe worth waiting for.
 
Yeah, I would think that will take at least another two-three months.
I'm going for the SP35
 
Blahman said:
Rumor is the X48 Shuttle will be a little larger and accomodate two dual-slot graphics cards. Maybe worth waiting for.
Click to expand...

I got the SP35P2 Pro last week and it is excellent. I wanted to get the SX38P2 Pro but it was not out yet. I am told it should be availble early next year. I am in Hong Kong.
However, seeing that the SX38P2 Pro will provide me with no real benefit over the SP35P2 Pro, I decided not to wait for it. No point thinking of crossfire with the SX38P2 Pro since there is hardly any space to fit 2 cards in it. Unless you want to have a heater next to you while you are using the computer in cold winter, then it would be a good idea. Lol!!

I think X48 model will be great. I am told it should be available by April 2008.

Will be looking forward to it.
 
Manoj said:
I wanted to get the SX38P2 Pro but it was not out yet. I am told it should be availble early next year. I am in Hong Kong.
However, seeing that the SX38P2 Pro will provide me with no real benefit over the SP35P2 Pro, I decided not to wait for it. No point thinking of crossfire with the SX38P2 Pro since there is hardly any space to fit 2 cards in it.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I got mine last week as well. Waiting for the parts to arrive, and I will get it up and running. Can't wait.
 
canislupy, how hot does your Q6600 get in that shuttle? If it isnt too bad, I might buy the SP35 to replace my large w/c'd desktop.
 
Alright, I my P35SP2 up and running with these components now:
E6750
XFX 8800GT 512 XXX
2GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC6400
WD Caviar 750GB

CPU temps are idling at a little over 40C, gets in the mid to high 50s under load.
Havent experimented much with OCing, but I brought the CPU up to 3.2Gs just for a test, and it ran P95 fine for 30 mins. That was with stock voltage. Temps under load never left the 50s.

I have a question for you guys who have this model; what speed do you keep the CPU fan at?
I have it set to "Smart Fan" in BIOS, but it doesnt seem very smart at all, I played with the settings in XPC tools, and no matter what the fan seems to spin at low, so I just increased 'low' to about 1350 rpms.
Would be great if it actually accelerated under load tho..

Also, has anyone experienced a complete system lockup when playing with the fan speeds?


All in all a super sweet system tho.
 
Yup I have a similar box I put together recently. Like you I decided it wasn't worth waiting for the X38 and X48 versions. Here's what I built:

SP35P2 Pro - $405
E6750 retail box - $189
EVGA 8800GT SSC 512mb - $300 (also got a BFG 8800GT OC 512mb for $250, but had to RMA it due to faulty DVI ports and will either return it or give it to my brother, he's got an 8800GTS 640mb and it would be a minor upgrade).
4x1GB Crucial Ballistix DDR 800 4-4-4-12 - $100 (2x 2x1GB sets for $50 each at Fry's)
Seagate 500GB 7200.11 32mb cache HDD - $120 (fastest 7200rpm available until the new Samsung F1 Spinpoint which beats it in a few categories)
Samsung/Toshiba SATA DVD burner ($30)
Total $1144

Last system was a Dell XPS Gen 2 notebook I got for $2000 and can still sell it for $1200 or so, so I might just come out even on this! :D

It's a great performer so far, love how much power is contained in this little black box.
My CPU idles at around 35C (using Low/Low CPU/System fan set in BIOS).
My 8800GT SSC idles at 60C or 50C if I ramp up the CPU/system fans.
I also reversed the two CPU fans as was recommended by the folks on the Sudhian forums, I think that may be why mine idles a tad cooler than yours, assuming you left yours in the stock configuration. It makes the larger 92mm fan into an intake fan bringing lots of cool air in and pushing it across the heatsink, instead of relying on that little 70mm fan to push all the hot air out.
As for overclocking, well I haven't done much of that yet. For starters my videocard has already got a pretty healthy overclock and I don't intend to mess with it after having waited two weeks to get a properly functioning card.
I did tighten up the timings on the RAM to 4-4-4-12, but had to bump up the voltage to 1.95V or it would freeze in the first 30 seconds of 3dmark06.
I reduced the CPU multiplier from 8x to 7x and increased the FSB from 333 to 400, resulting in a modest overclock to 2.8GHz (I think) while resulting in a 1:1 memory divider/FSB ratio. I haven't gone beyond that, and when I did set it like that I had both fans set on full blast (pretty darn loud), although I probably didn't need to.

Glad to hear you like your new Shuttle, as do I. Check out the Sudhian forums, lots of SP35P2 owners with great overclocks, mods and lots of ideas. Its just the best resource for Shuttle owners that I have found.

http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/forums/viewforum/4/
 
bumped the multiplier back up to 8x and with no other changes it is rock stable and cool at 3.2GHz. thats as far as I am going to go for now since all thats left to do is increase the FSB. I know my memory can handle upwards of 500 FSB at 2.2v but at 400 I'm already at 1.95v and I've been told not to leave it above 2.0v for day to day use, so I think anything beyond where I'm at right now is just unnecessary risk.

One thing you need to take note of is if you change the FSB to 400 make sure you set the memory frequency in the BIOS to 667. Its mislabeled or something and will actually run at 800 once you boot up and check it with Cpu-z or Everest. I think if you try to run the FSB at 400 and the memory at 800 I am guessing it actually tries to set the memory to 1066 which obviously isn't going to work with DDR 800 memory. When I did that I didn't get POST at all and had to hit the CMOS reset switch on the back with a pen and set up the BIOS again.

Anyways...

Running E6750 @ 3.2GHz and 400FSB
4x1GB Crucial DDR2-800 at its rated specs and timings (400 FSB and 4-4-4-12).
off for another run of 3dmark06!
edit: 12697 @ 3.2GHz!
up from 11932 @ 2.8
and 11606 @ 2.66

if only I had gotten a Q6600 so i could have crazy inflated CPU marks! :p
 
Great, thanks for all the info. Didn't realize quad cores inflated the 3DMark scores that much..

So are you just running your fans on low? And reversing the two fans really helped?
 
yeah just by having a quad core you tack on another 2000 points or so. even if it's running slower than a dual core.

that is why I hate 3dmark06. its not an accurate "gamer's benchmark" because hardly any games make use of quad cores and those that do are only marginally faster. heck most games are still single threaded so in those a faster single or dual core processor would end up being faster in reality.

anyways, yeah it runs very cool at stock with the fans reversed and low/low, with an idle of about 35C. at 3.4GHz though I have to kick it up to medium/medium and it still idles a bit higher at 45C.
edit: actually that was load of 45C (firefox beta 1 froze and was using 100% of my cpu lol). it still idles at 34-35C at 3.4 GHz and medium/medium. nice!

there are lots of ideas for sticking in better/more fans in at sudhian. a common one is to replace the loud and wimpy 70mm CPU fan with an 80mm one using zip ties to attach it. something more ambitious would be to add a large, quiet fan (120mm) to the top rear of the case to vent rising hot air out.

also the 8800GT stock cooler could be better and a good aftermarket one would probably make a huge difference on not only the GPU's temps but the overall system as well.

i myself am happy with the stock cooling (with fans reversed) for now:
E6750 cores at 3.4GHz are idling at 34 and 33C respectively
GPU is idling at 56C
highest load temps I have seen on the CPU were 58C in prime95
highest GPU temp I have seen was 80C in Crysis at 1920x1080 using all High settings (the GPU is clocked at 700/1728/2000).
 
Thanks, great info again.

Blahman said:
anyways, yeah it runs very cool at stock with the fans reversed and low/low, with an idle of about 35C. at 3.4GHz though I have to kick it up to medium/medium and it still idles a bit higher at 45C.
edit: actually that was load of 45C (firefox beta 1 froze and was using 100% of my cpu lol). it still idles at 34-35C at 3.4 GHz and medium/medium. nice!
Click to expand...
Nice. I wish there was a way for 'Smart Fan' to actually work, rather than having to stick to a constant fan speed. Whats the point with PWM fans then. Have you tried speedfan or any other program to dynamically change fan speeds?

there are lots of ideas for sticking in better/more fans in at sudhian. a common one is to replace the loud and wimpy 70mm CPU fan with an 80mm one using zip ties to attach it. something more ambitious would be to add a large, quiet fan (120mm) to the top rear of the case to vent rising hot air out.
Click to expand...
You mean a 120mm instead of the rear HDD cage? So you'd need to make a hole in the top of the case?

Replacing the 70mm fan seems smart. I think I maight replace it with a 80mm Scythe PWM fan. Does the zip-tie mounting look solid (if you've seen pics)?

also the 8800GT stock cooler could be better and a good aftermarket one would probably make a huge difference on not only the GPU's temps but the overall system as well.
Click to expand...
Are you using RivaTuner or anything similar to adjust the fan speeds on you 8800GT?

i myself am happy with the stock cooling (with fans reversed) for now:
E6750 cores at 3.4GHz are idling at 34 and 33C respectively
GPU is idling at 56C
highest load temps I have seen on the CPU were 58C in prime95
highest GPU temp I have seen was 80C in Crysis at 1920x1080 using all High settings (the GPU is clocked at 700/1728/2000).
Click to expand...
Temps seem nice. Are you really able to run Crysis at that res on high?
 
CC_Pirate said:
Thanks, great info again.


Nice. I wish there was a way for 'Smart Fan' to actually work, rather than having to stick to a constant fan speed. Whats the point with PWM fans then. Have you tried speedfan or any other program to dynamically change fan speeds?
Click to expand...

Nope, not yet. I actually would rather have a consistent sound and constant amount of airflow when it comes to the system fans.

CC_Pirate said:
You mean a 120mm instead of the rear HDD cage? So you'd need to make a hole in the top of the case?
Click to expand...

Yup, someone did that with an older Shuttle model and detailed his project: http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/forums/viewthread/99073/

CC_Pirate said:
Replacing the 70mm fan seems smart. I think I maight replace it with a 80mm Scythe PWM fan. Does the zip-tie mounting look solid (if you've seen pics)?
Click to expand...

I'm sure the zip tie method is fine, although I did see someone had found a better way with custom fit washers but he had to drill press them himself, otherwise they come with a certain heatsink, can't remember which though. It's all on the Sudhian forums if you dig around.

CC_Pirate said:
Are you using RivaTuner or anything similar to adjust the fan speeds on you 8800GT?
Click to expand...
I use RivaTuner to monitor, and I've tried fan control (66% is about as loud as I want to set it hehe) but my video card came with the newest BIOS from EVGA with good dynamic fan control so I just let it do its thing and it keeps cool enough.

CC_Pirate said:
Temps seem nice. Are you really able to run Crysis at that res on high?
Click to expand...

Yeah Crysis actually runs quite nice at all High at this res. I also sometimes run a bunch of tweaks that take it all the way to the equivalent of "Very High" in DX10, but then I have to lower the res to 1360x765 to keep it smooth. I'm just using the SP demo though, I have heard the full game isn't as optimized or something and just waiting on the big patch. I'm running XP x64 and the 64-bit Crysis executable, which gives a 5-10% boost over 32-bit, although it doesn't work with RivaTuner's on-screen display.
 
Hey Blahman, were you able to get it stable at 3.4Gs?
If so, let me know what settings you used. Mine wont even get into Windows at that speed, I think Ive got some of the settings wrong.
Didnt really change much other than the FSB, and DDR voltage to 2.0, and then I did the 667Mhz RMA speed trick you informed me of.

Thanks
 
3.2GHz, not 3.4, but yeah it is running fast and cool with fans on Medium/Medium. Haven't tried 3.4 or anything higher than 3.2 and 400FSB.

BIOS is set up as follows:
Advanced Chipset Settings:
Memory Frequency: 667MHz (mislabeled, actually means 1:1 DRAM:FSB ratio, resulting 800MHz effective RAM frequency)
First 4 timings, 4-4-4-12, rest Auto

Frequency/Voltage Settings:
Multiplier 8x
CPU Frequency: 400 (results in 400MHz FSB and 3.2GHz CPU clock).
Voltages: all Auto except DIMM (memory) voltage @ 2.0V

You might need to up the memory voltage even more with those Tracers, the silly LEDs supposedly require .1V more. So try 2.1V and check for stability. I use a Memtest86+ bootable CD and set it to run test #5 over and over as its the one that usually detects errors if they're going to occur, usually within the first 2 passes.
 
Thanks again. Those are the settings I had, but I'm having some weird issues OCing.
Btw I don't have the Tracers, but the regular ballistix. I tried your settings, and with those the system just locks up when entering Windows. The same is true for 375 FSB. Weird thing is, if I lower the FSB to say 360, there is no OC recognized in Windows, by CPU Z.
While booting, it tells me the correct CPU speed under POST, but in Windows the FSB is reported as 333 and therefore standard CPU speed.

Not sure what this is. Its weird that it recognizes the OC at 375 an 400, but not 360..
 
UPDATE: What seems to have caused those lockups when entering Windows with those higher speeds was the XPC Tools (which I had loading at startup). I disabled that stuff and 3.2Ghz works fine now, ran P95 for a while no problem. Nice temps too, never above 60C.
Now I'm playing with 3.4Ghz, upped the vcore 100mW. Been running P95 for a little while now no problems, temps seem to max out at 68C.

The SmartFans stuff seems to work fine now too. When running P95 it ups the fan speed of the CPU fan automatically to about 2500 rpm. Fairly loud, but seems to keep the sucker cool. Idle temps are mid 30s btw.

Also added fanprofiles in RivaTuner to keep my 8800GT cool, its OCed to 730/1780/1010 from 670/1650/975. Works great.

edit: only thing that worries me a little is the mobo/NB temp, which is at 77C during load. That little Oasis thing gets WARM!
 
yeah I would definititely back off if your NB is that hot until you put a case fan on it. it could just be zip-tied to the HD cage or you could look on the forums for someone who replaced the Oasis thingy with a real HS/F.
 
Yeah, I think I might get some airflow onto that thing. I reduced the vcore offset to +50mW, and Im running 3.4Ghz Prime stable for about 4 hours, havent had a chance to test it any longer. NB temp seems to top out at about 72 now. Im happy with the OC tho, Im sure I could have gone higher but dont think its worth the higher temps and cooling mods necessary.
Getting close to 13000 3DMarks.

Glad I got the SP35P2, little powerhouse that thing! Almost knocks out my main WCed rig (in sig). Almost, that is..
 
Blahman said:
Yeah Crysis actually runs quite nice at all High at this res. I also sometimes run a bunch of tweaks that take it all the way to the equivalent of "Very High" in DX10, but then I have to lower the res to 1360x765 to keep it smooth. I'm just using the SP demo though, I have heard the full game isn't as optimized or something and just waiting on the big patch. I'm running XP x64 and the 64-bit Crysis executable, which gives a 5-10% boost over 32-bit, although it doesn't work with RivaTuner's on-screen display.
Click to expand...

I wonder how youre able to run Crysis at those settings and res. I tried it on my Shuttle for the first time today, and I had to drop the all settings to Medium to be able to run at an acceptable framerate with 1440x900 and 2x AA. Im getting right below 30FPS at those settins. Im running Vista (so DX10) tho, I'm thinking thats why I can't crank it any more...
 
DX10, thats why. You can run it under DX9 in vista, create or copy the shortcut to the game and add -dx9 to the command line.

DX9 is like 30-40% faster than DX10 in Crysis even at the same settings. Go figure.
 
Blahman said:
DX10, thats why. You can run it under DX9 in vista, create or copy the shortcut to the game and add -dx9 to the command line.

DX9 is like 30-40% faster than DX10 in Crysis even at the same settings. Go figure.
Click to expand...

Wow, I see. Since you have tried both 9 and 10, how big is the difference in terms of quality?
 
there are a few minor differences, some of which can be emulated in DX9 via config tweaks.

DX10 "Very High" has:
- Object based motion blur (r_motionblur = 4, q_renderer = 3 in DX9, but its occasionally glitchy and not quite as convincing as in DX10)
- Sunshafts: volumetric beams of light most visible when looking at the sun or moon through foliage, or when underwater... (r_sunshafts = 1, q_shaderpostprocess = 2 or 3, q_renderer = 2 or 3)
- Parallel Occlusion Mapping: some ground textures have a heightmap associated with them and POM makes them "pop out" of the ground and look like 3D mesh detail instead of flat textures... (r_usepom = 1, q_shaderterrain = 2 or 3)
- other much less noticeable differences such as slightly nicer/different water effects (basically a lot of shader effects are slightly different between DX9 and DX10 although difficult to say how or which is better).
 
I am one of the guys from sfftech.

I used the good old zip tie method to mount the 80mm inplace of the 70mm. ALso I replaced the 92mm fan. The stock 92mm is way to noisy.

I used the pen mod to make my q6600 to default to 1333 speeds. And to get the 1:1 ram ratio.

Current settings
390x9 (+120mv in BIOS)
4x1GB Kingtons Hyperx

8800GTX O/C'd to 613/1000.
 
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