Shutting down computers every night

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Hucklebarry

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I know this seems to be an age old argument and I have visited several forums discussing the myths and legends of this debate. Unfortunately I am working at a place that is dealing with this argument internally and wont except forum conversations or theory as decision making information.

Is anyone aware of a reputable location to find factual information on the pros and cons of turning off computers at night versus leaving them running 24/7. I'm aware of the energy saving features of not running a P4 24/7 as well as other things, but without something reputable to provide, I'm afraid I don't have a case that will be acceptable.

I remember reading an article in the past about how many start ups and shut downs systems were qualified for before failure but I can't find it now. Anything that goes into specifics about system design and how its actually safe now to use the power button once in a while. Or how much damage keeping a drive spinning for 24/7 can do. Basically I need to convince middle management that hardware has changed over the years.

If anyone has anything that might be helpful bookmarked, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance. Sorry to bring this up, but all my searches just lead to theoretical debate with little actual facts to back up one side or the other.
 
I keep all my computers on 24/7 I have an older G3 which hasn't been turned off since the day I got it, I haven't even updated it. Running fine. You can imaging just how many updates it needs. It is fine running 24/7
 
I remeber a few articles similar to that. I belive what it came down to is that you will see virtually no decrease in service life turning on/off once a day over the usefull span of the system. Where it did come into play was in situations where people were turnign on and off the computer many times per day, like those who will turn it on, use it for 15 minutes, turn it off and come back in a half hour to use it again.
 
your computer can't fold if it is off....

anyway even before I folded I left mine on 24/7 out of convience....
 
I'll start off this post by saying that I have absolutley no documentation to back me up, but I've been following debates on this issue for years now. From what I can understand, there really isin't any noticable diffrence from starting up and shutting down a computer every day. What I've found though is that when a computer is cold booted (for instance hasn't been running in a couple days) there is more of a potential for a problem (the best example I've been given would like starting a car on a very cold morning). I've read about examples of having power surges when starting a computer, or hard drives failing (moving parts), etc. Overall, I really don't think it matters, the only reason we leave computers on at night are because that's when all the updates run. Now it's a bit diffrent on an apple system since there are things that apple has run at night, but again those can be run at any time with the correct command. Hope I added some insight.
 
No factual information here either, but isn't it common sense that turning it (them) off at night is going to save you money on your electricity bill? And do you think that by hitting the power button once daily it is going to wear out all of your components? I'm pretty sure any office will have updated to newer systems/components, etc... long before any damage is done from repetitive on/off cycles (we'll say on/off once a day).

I mean, here's a fact: you save money when you turn off your appliances.
And here's my opinion: turning your computers on/off isn't going to kill them any time soon. You'll upgrade or get new systems probably long before anything will die.

If the office needs to run updates at night, then I guess that's something to be worked into the equation.

That said, I leave my computer on most nights too, for convenience sake. But if I had an entire office of computers running... that adds up... and one would have to carefully measure the marginal returns.
 
I leave my three systems running 24/7 out of convience. I have no factual info for either side of the debate, but here is something to think about...

How many times have you seen a light bulb blow the second you turn it on as compared to how many times you see them blow while they are already on?
 
How many times have you seen a light bulb blow the second you turn it on as compared to how many times you see them blow while they are already on?
Click to expand...


That's because you're looking at it when you turn it on, as opposed to when it just dies after being on for extended periods.
 
FlipperBizkut said:
I leave my three systems running 24/7 out of convience. I have no factual info for either side of the debate, but here is something to think about...

How many times have you seen a light bulb blow the second you turn it on as compared to how many times you see them blow while they are already on?
Click to expand...

Incandescent bulbs do not "age" the filament measureably just by turning them on, compared to leaving them on. They will die at the same time regardless of how many times they've been turned on and off.

Fluorescent bulbs on the other hand _do_ wear down significantly when turned on and off a lot.

That being said, turning it on and off once per day, on either type of bulb, wouldn't matter at all. The same is true for PCs, the parts with motors do exhibit more stress at spin-up, but not enough to matter if its turned on and off once per day, or more.
 
why not enable power saving functions like shut off hard disks and put the system into hybernation and turn off the monitor. WakeOnLan would allow for updates from the IT side of thing and power would still be saved, yet availability would remain high.
 
My server runs 24/7. The only reason I turn off my gaming rig is because it sounds like a goddamn jet and it is pretty close to my head when I'm trying to sleep.
 
Kaos said:
why not enable power saving functions like shut off hard disks and put the system into hybernation and turn off the monitor. WakeOnLan would allow for updates from the IT side of thing and power would still be saved, yet availability would remain high.
Click to expand...

Well, I think shutting off the hard disk through power saving functions would be the equivalent of turning off the machine and thus managemnet would want to avoid this solution too.

I agree with everyone, (I think) in most cases, it doesnt matter.

thanks for all the comments. If it were up to me they would be turned off to save money as well as avoid power surges/spikes, and exposure to virus/malware for those extended hours, but there are those that believe hardware hasnt changed or they are convinced that in *their* experience, many problems can be attributed to the systems turning off and on (IE, someone goes home for the weekend and turn off their computer and Monday morning when they turn it on, it doesn't work). This is why I am looking for good documentation to help argue bad logic. Its hard to convince someone who already thinks they know the answer without good facts.

Thanks again for all the responses. If anyone still finds anything, I would greatly appreciate it.
 
If you turn them off, you are going to save money. If you do happen to have a problem part or two because of this (which everyone would agree is unlikely though possible) use the money you save to buy replacement parts. I don't think you are gonna fry a processor or anything.

That said, I leave mine on. But then I don't pay the electric bills where I currently live :)
 
My Computer hasnt been "Shut Off Completly" Since I built it 5 weeks ago. Its been restarted about 10ish times, but thats about it. No reason to turn it off.
 
There is no right answer. There is no factual data to back either case up. So here is a list of Pro's either way. There are many more, just think of a list yourself and submit them.

Pro's to leaving them on:
You can schedule tasks to run when no one is around. (Backups, defrags etc)
You don't have to wait for them to come back on in the morning.
Your cube will be .01 degrees warmer if you leave it on all night. (10 degrees if you are running a prescott ;) )

Pro's to turning them off
You don't waste electricity.
If you have a power surge or power outtage, you won't have to worry about corrupting files, or Billy Bob, who was working on his spreadsheet for 8 hours yesterday but didn't save and left it open.

Bottom line: Do you schedule any tasks to run durring the night? If not turn them off. It does not hurt the longevity either way. Assuming proper cooling and ventalation anyway.
 
S1nF1xx said:
There is no right answer. There is no factual data to back either case up. So here is a list of Pro's either way. There are many more, just think of a list yourself and submit them.
Click to expand...

There is factual data that exists about the ratings of different equipment. (how many licks to get to the center of the lollipop, how many clicks before the mouse fails, how many times (on average) is a system meant to sustain turning on and off before parts will not be reliable anymore). Like the starter on your car. There should also be some good stress test data out there. I know I've seen some of this before but in articles unrelated to the topic and thus I don't know where to look (other than the obvious, which has yielded pretty much what the fine folks on the forum have offered).

While there may not be an article that says "it is bad", I am looking for data that can be assembled into an argument (for example: hard drives today are typically rated to cold boot 10,000 times before failure should occur - signed by some authority like Seagate.) I could use data like that to help management make an educated decision rather than a theoretical one. (cause as it stands, their theory is computers will fail if you turn them off every night).

so the problem I am having is finding it. if it cant be found, no harm, just thought it was worth looking for.

Thanks again for all the comments.
 
Well, I've run my AMD K6III 450 damned near 24/7 for 6 years. I have had a problem with absolutely nothing in the machine. The PSU,mobo, CPU, hard drive, video card EVERYTHING still works. So there can't be any factual proof that leaving your computer on all the time will hurt it. (unless you're talking about leaving it on every day for more than 6 years) Because this proves it different.

On the flip-side. At work, we have about 15 computers that are shut down every night. So 260 times a year the computer is turned on and shut off. In the three years I've worked here, I haven't had any hardware problems with any of the computers. NONE. So turning a computer on and off 780 times is ok. If not, one of the machines would have failed.

There are two governing factors that blow this whole theory into dust.

1. By the time your machine "wears out", it will be obsolete and collecting dust at the Salvation Army.

2. If a component is going to fail, it will fail regardless of if the computer is turned on and off 1000 times, or if it's left on all the time.

There is no factual proof of either method causing the computer to fail. None that I've seen first hand anyway, and I've seen both ends of the spectrum.

My 2¢
 
Hucklebarry said:
Well, I think shutting off the hard disk through power saving functions would be the equivalent of turning off the machine and thus managemnet would want to avoid this solution too.

I agree with everyone, (I think) in most cases, it doesnt matter.

thanks for all the comments. If it were up to me they would be turned off to save money as well as avoid power surges/spikes, and exposure to virus/malware for those extended hours, but there are those that believe hardware hasnt changed or they are convinced that in *their* experience, many problems can be attributed to the systems turning off and on (IE, someone goes home for the weekend and turn off their computer and Monday morning when they turn it on, it doesn't work). This is why I am looking for good documentation to help argue bad logic. Its hard to convince someone who already thinks they know the answer without good facts.

Thanks again for all the responses. If anyone still finds anything, I would greatly appreciate it.
Click to expand...


look at rojak's pot hard drive faq
 
In my area the power company has an additional "Demand" charge. This is for the maximum amount of power drawn at any moment during a period. I wonder if a charge such as this, coupled with the added draw of motors spinning up etc., would offset any power savings of units turned off for 8 - 12 hours. (Especially if the systems were configured to put the cpu and display into low power states during inactive periods.)
 
Hucklebarry said:
I know this seems to be an age old argument and I have visited several forums discussing the myths and legends of this debate. Unfortunately I am working at a place that is dealing with this argument internally and wont except forum conversations or theory as decision making information.

Is anyone aware of a reputable location to find factual information on the pros and cons of turning off computers at night versus leaving them running 24/7. I'm aware of the energy saving features of not running a P4 24/7 as well as other things, but without something reputable to provide, I'm afraid I don't have a case that will be acceptable.

I remember reading an article in the past about how many start ups and shut downs systems were qualified for before failure but I can't find it now. Anything that goes into specifics about system design and how its actually safe now to use the power button once in a while. Or how much damage keeping a drive spinning for 24/7 can do. Basically I need to convince middle management that hardware has changed over the years.

If anyone has anything that might be helpful bookmarked, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance. Sorry to bring this up, but all my searches just lead to theoretical debate with little actual facts to back up one side or the other.
Click to expand...
There's only TWO reasons to leave your computer running when you are away from it for more than a few hours -

1. - you are running a program that is performing a function and it needs to continue running...

2. - you need to access the computer REMOTELY from another location.

If the computer in question does not fall under either of these two - turn it off. You are just wasting electricity, and using fans/hdd's that don't need to be spinning.
 
broberts said:
In my area the power company has an additional "Demand" charge. This is for the maximum amount of power drawn at any moment during a period. I wonder if a charge such as this, coupled with the added draw of motors spinning up etc., would offset any power savings of units turned off for 8 - 12 hours. (Especially if the systems were configured to put the cpu and display into low power states during inactive periods.)
Click to expand...

But what are the chances that all the computers are going to be turned on at the exact same time?
 
paulmr said:
your computer can't fold if it is off....

anyway even before I folded I left mine on 24/7 out of convience....
Click to expand...
QFT. Instead of worrying about wearing out components by turning it on and off, leave it folding 24/7 and save some money on your heating bill... especially in the case of P4s.

 
I turn mine off for the night. Boot it up in the morning and leave it running untill 12:00 or so. I see no harm done from doing so. My old 98" has this routine and it works fine. Think of all the money my faimly has saved over the past 7 years for shuting it down 8 hours each night.
Plus leaving it on at night is more wear and tear on your hardware, you just don't need. The boot button is there for a reason.....
 
i have left my rig running for months on end at times, but recently my list of bit torrents has run slim, so i dont have as many reasons to leave it on. But fairly often i leave it on at night to run bit torrents, defrags, virus scans/updates, backups, and windowsupdates. So . . .would you want all that interfering with your daily work/play? All in all that takes up hours of cpu time, time i dont have to spare for those programs during the day if im home.
 
Badger said:
But what are the chances that all the computers are going to be turned on at the exact same time?
Click to expand...

They don't all have to be turned on at the exact same time. Cold boots usually take several minutes.
 
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