Should I Upgrade??? Here's your answer.....

cornelious0_0

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I'm so sick and tired of people bashing Intel for Prescott's debut and endlessly asking "should I switch".....they seem to be forgetting one very important point.....and that is that Intel still has yet to move their prescott's over to Socket775. Think back to when the P4's first debuted in their original (depressing) form, socket 423. They were horrible, clock for clock, much slower then an opposing P3 or AMD Athlon. Take a small step forward in time to S478 and watch them completely take over.

In my eye's this is the EXACT same situation all over again. Intel is releasing their new CPU, but it's getting beat (the majority of the time anyways) by their old design as well as offerings from AMD. Give Intel a bit of time to put out their new socket and watch these chips take off. Not only will the new socket most likely be able to address many performance issues (as S478 did by adding a completely new platform for the Pentium 4) but we'll at least see the Prescott working properly, seeing as many boards nowadays can't recognize them properly and a lot of 3.2GHz Prescotts are booting up as 2.8's on some S478 mobos (seems they WERE'NT ready afterall ;) ).

I can't stand all this bickering all the time......especially since most of the time it's just because of people not knowing/having all the facts.

To count Prescott (or Intel) out now would be insane.

I'd say that If you're doing an upgrade this month it'd still be best to sit down with a nice P4 setup and be happy. By summer or just thereafter we'll have Socket 775 to play with for the Prescotts AND the 939pin A64.....which will really make things interesting.

For me, it's the overall FEEL of using the computer thats most important. Even if the A64 FX-51 is outpacing the P4 in many tests.....the cost is outrageous, and I wouldn't give up HyperThreading for the world right now.....and AMD has still not come even close to what HT can offer the end user. Considering AMDs high end Processor (the FX-51) is retailing for over $1,000 CDN and you can pick up a 3.2C for under $400.....I'd think this is kind of a no brainer. Also, factor in the cost (today) of a quality motherboard for either platform and you find that the Canterwood/Sprindale setups not only a hell of a lot cheaper, but also MUCH easier to pick up. One last thing is that until we see the 939pin A64's you also have to go out of your way to purchase some overly expensive ECC ram for the FX-51.....which is just stupid. The truth is that the storys and situations with both Intel and AMDs high end CPUs are going to completely change in the next couple quarters.....but right now Intel is still the more practical, mature option.

You may not like what I have to say but I'm trying to be as un-biased as possible in giving each side an equal and fair chance to "prove themselves worthy" in our eyes. I've gone back an forth between AMD and Intel in the last couple years and I can honestly say that they have their own high's AND lows.....just make sure you don't buy into any amount of hype on new technology. Wait it out and make your OWN, educated decision.

[insert sticky here]
 
I couldnt have said it better...and even if I did say it...I would have gotten flamed...so yeah...what cornelious said ^^
 
Originally posted by SatinSpiral
^^^ what he said

Gee thx, hopefully this doesn't create some kind of horrible uprising with the insane amount of fanboys we have lurking around here from time to time. ;)

I'm expecting an overall positive response to this thread and I hope people end up agreeing for the most part and not starting another "war to end all wars" in here to try and prove a point. :)
 
*applause*

That is awesome! Can we sticky it? (Maybe in the AMD forum - heh)? :p :cool:
 
Originally posted by cornelious0_0
For me, it's the overall FEEL of using the computer thats most important. Even if the A64 FX-51 is outpacing the P4 in many tests.....the cost is outrageous, and I wouldn't give up HyperThreading for the world right now
ah! well said. my sentiments exactly, m8!

as far as people using their own minds to make educated decisions? - well, that's a stretch. we both know that 98% of the people who read/post here can't make up their own minds about anything... or can they?... nah! :D
 
Originally posted by codeflux
ah! well said. my sentiments exactly, m8!

as far as people using their own minds to make educated decisions? - well, that's a stretch. we both know that 98% of the people who read/post here can't make up their own minds about anything... or can they?... nah! :D

True Dat, True Dat :cool:
 
Yup, both cpu's are good but just have to wait for the right time to purchase which isn't right now.
 
Why are you talking about the FX-51? For $400 you can get a a643400+ that blows all the p4's away or for $200 you can get a a643000+ that does the same thing, just by a smaller margin. I have an intel setup and i love it. Its fast and great for OC'ing. But right now the A64 is so much faster and its not by margin of error. Why the fuck do people have to worry about which company to buy from??? BUY WHATS FASTER. Giving a shit about AMD over Intel or vice versa is just retarded and its not gonna get you what you want. This thread is dumb, and we are all dumber for having read it.
 
lol here we go...btw i agree with you cornelious...lol this is gonna be fun...oh, and I wouldn't say that the a64 blows any p4 away...cause the 3.4ghz ee will beat it hands down...and it only beats the 3.2ghz chip in SOME tests by a SMALL margin. lets at least argue honestly if we are going to argue and not get this thread locked like all of the other ones.
 
Originally posted by zDmn
Why are you talking about the FX-51? For $400 you can get a a643400+ that blows all the p4's away or for $200 you can get a a643000+ that does the same thing, just by a smaller margin.
you are forgetting one thing - A64 overclocks maybe by 10%. P4 overclocks of 20 or 30% are not uncommon. take FX-51 taken to the max, against P4 (say, good 3.0 or 2.8) taken to the max, and P4 beats A64 a *lot*. and with supposedly high-overclocking Prescott, A64 is history. :D sort of. we'll see. :)
 
Originally posted by zDmn

Mkay :rolleyes:
This thread does not claim Intel is better than AMD...or that the Prescott is God's gift to computing. All opinions are stated as such and qualified. Whether you agree or not, a response like yours is the type that makes a thread worthless.

It makes a couple very good points that people should think about before they make themselves look like fools.












Like you. :cool:
 
Originally posted by eighteen_psi
It makes a couple very good points that people should think about before they make themselves look like fools.
you mean sort of like those folks who got rid of their 9700pro's for 9800pro's in hopes that HL2 is about to come out? yeah, i'll never get over that one. HAHA! :D how's that FireGL X1 working out for ya, btw? :)

this is a good overall suggestion: USE YOUR NOGGIN, including while trying to decide whether to upgrade now or wait.
 
Originally posted by cornelious0_0
Think back to when the P4's first debuted in their original (depressing) form, socket 423. They were horrible, clock for clock, much slower then an opposing P3 or AMD Athlon. Take a small step forward in time to S478 and watch them completely take over.[/SIZE]

One thing you are forgetting:

The Socket 423's were Williamettes, the reason that Socket 478's are faster is because they are Northwoods. Prescotts will still be Prescotts, more pins or no.

I am not saying that Prescotts are bad processors, but changing sockets just allows for more power (watts) and better cooling, it will not change the performance of the chip at a given MHZ. More power and cooling will allow for higher clock speeds, and this will be Prescott's only saving grace, it will clock faster than Northwood. (the P3 at a given mhz is faster than any P4, willy, northwood or prescott, but the P4 ramps to higher clocks to offset this difference.)

==>Lazn
 
God I am Sick of peopleing Overclocking this Overclocking that.. Who gives a flying rats ass to be honest with you. Not every one Overclocks, Infact 99.8% computer users don't overclock. So LETS DROPS THIS A64 DOESN"T OC AS WELL P4 BIT. I want a fast CPU that runs at stock speeds. Infact if most people pulled their heads out their ass they would realize that Hardforums are not the place for Overclockers. (No offence to [H]) You want to see overclocking go to www.xtremesystems.org, you want to OC and get the best info go there.

Oh and A64 OC's just fine you just have to know how.

As for Hyperthreading, Its a bit overated, every one rants and raves how good it is. My Opteron outpaces 3.2 in photoshop cs easily and it has no HT.

Intel vs AMD prices, lets not even go there I can get a fx 51 for 990cdn and a p4 EE is 1274 cdn. Hmmm I wonder which is cheaper. The registered ram bs is pissing me off two, most people don't even have a clue why registered ram is used. Its used when you have more then 1 gig of ram it keeps the cpu from looking aimlessly through ram, it goes right to the proper spot. I use 2 and 4 gigs in two machines, you try running that much on normal ram. (Don't give me the BS you don't need that much ram, Bill gates said that about 640kb, I easily peak over 2.2 gigs worth of ram on certain tasks.) Plus I wanted to know how good opteron was as well.

I have an opteron and the reason is I want stability and reliability

Opteron + registered ecc ram = Overkill stability, Not a Single BSOD due to memory errors, Hell I had one BSOD in three months and that because I did it on purpose. If you take a Xeon + registered ecc you will have the same thing.

Oh and people that ask about convincing them thats BS, god damn ingorant people can't make up their minds deserve HP's. You will never learn with out trial and error. If you want the best pick it your self, do your homework and learn some stuff while your doing it.

Most critiques are BS because they are well glorified gloating rights.
 
Socket 478 is Williamette's too. Just early ones. I have 1.8 ghz and it was williamette.
 
You guys are making some good points and I never said that everything I said was perfect so I'm not ashamed to stand corrected.

I still believe what I said and I know that a lot of you are the same way too so that's perfectly alright. I just can't wait 'till summer is all. ;) :cool:
 
but with LGA775, it supposed to run cooler...


...however, intel might start using those extra transistors...
 
Originally posted by rayman2k2
but with LGA775, it supposed to run cooler...


...however, intel might start using those extra transistors...

I can hardly wait to see what both of them have up their sleeves later on this year. Should be exciting. :D
 
Originally posted by Wrench00
As for Hyperthreading, Its a bit overated, every one rants and raves how good it is. My Opteron outpaces 3.2 in photoshop cs easily and it has no HT.


You know, your post had a shit load of grammar errors, but regardless, my P4 2.0Ghz outpaces quite a few opterons, athlons, and athlon 64's in Maya rendering. Did I mention it has no HT?
 
Originally posted by Wrench00
God I am Sick of peopleing Overclocking this Overclocking that.. Who gives a flying rats ass to be honest with you. Not every one Overclocks, Infact 99.8% computer users don't overclock. So LETS DROPS THIS A64 DOESN"T OC AS WELL P4 BIT...

Hmm...this is an enthusiast website forum and you will find that a larger percentage of your .2% that overclocks frequents here. If this were an IT forum, that argument would have more weight. Other than bragging rights, the OC card is usually pointed out to show the headroom in a specific core. The P4 has miles of growth potential, proven by the insane overclocks. The A64 is obviously waiting for someting new if the OC is limited. Now I'm not saying that P4 is better or that A64 is worse. Clock for Performance Rating, both cpu's win some and both lose some. Neither crush the other in any benchmarks. I'm just looking at it from an enthusiast point of view. My $.02 worth...take it how you want.
 
Originally posted by Bomber
Hmm...this is an enthusiast website forum and you will find that a larger percentage of your .2% that overclocks frequents here. If this were an IT forum, that argument would have more weight. Other than bragging rights, the OC card is usually pointed out to show the headroom in a specific core. The P4 has miles of growth potential, proven by the insane overclocks. The A64 is obviously waiting for someting new if the OC is limited. Now I'm not saying that P4 is better or that A64 is worse. Clock for Performance Rating, both cpu's win some and both lose some. Neither crush the other in any benchmarks. I'm just looking at it from an enthusiast point of view. My $.02 worth...take it how you want.

I agree and disagree with you on this one. I'm not quite sure i back your whole "more room to grow" theory, 'cus it comes down to more then just that.....but nice point. The one thing you said that DOES make a lot of sense is the fact that it's true that not EVERYONE overclocks but again.....look where we are, I'd say that that percentage should be almost flipped. ;)

Wrench00, you need to learn to control what you say our you're gonna make a lot enemies around here very fast. It's exagerated, uncalled for statements like that that can make you look bad around here.....nobody likes a person who just shoots their mouth off without rhyme nor reason. It is true that this forum is well known for its ATI fanboyism but it's also things like your statement there that give people bad reps, it makes you look ignorant and nobody likes a person who is unwilling to listen.

Again, just MY .02.....take it how you want but I'm not trying to be overly mean here so don't think I'm out to get anyone, just trying to resolve things best I can.
 
Originally posted by rayman2k2
but with LGA775, it supposed to run cooler...


...however, intel might start using those extra transistors...
My thoughts as well.
775 is suppose to be a voltage drop as well as better signaling, probably lower signaling voltage, etc... less losses due to the interface.
I am curious as to how well that is going to work out tho...
I'd love to hear some feature could be enabled, but I'm beginning to think the simple reason for the extra transistors may be the 33% longer pipe and upgraded prefetching alone.
Maybe we'll get lucky and find the Prescott has an onboard memory controller when on the right mainboard...
 
Originally posted by 0ldman
Maybe we'll get lucky and find the Prescott has an onboard memory controller when on the right mainboard...

Heh, I doubt it.....otherwise I'm sure we would know about it by now, just like we did with the A64's even before their debute. Sure there's gonna still be a lot of facts finalized between now and summer but that's something that seems kinda out of left field for some reason.

Maybe I'm just weird.....who knows. ;) :D
 
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Nice one oldman!!!

I want to believe there's something magic in this prescott i have. I just wish intel would wave the wand!!!
 
Originally posted by Tedinde
Nice one oldman!!!

I want to believe there's something magic in this prescott i have. I just wish intel would wave the wand!!!

Give 'em time dude, it'll all come togethor. Just give it time. ;) :cool:
 
I give 'em until the end of May. After that I want my D3 bitch slapping system, be it Intel or AMD.
 
Originally posted by Vagrant Zero
I give 'em until the end of May. After that I want my D3 bitch slapping system, be it Intel or AMD.

A valid point. don't wait around forever. Pick a date when you're gonna buy, and get whatever's best at THAT MOMENT. Doom3 is an excellent choice for a deadline if you ask me. :)
 
Originally posted by cornelious0_0
Give 'em time dude, it'll all come togethor. Just give it time. ;) :cool:


Just like Nintendo, an okay system at first, but it gave birth to Eternal Darkness, Zelda, etc.
 
Originally posted by rayman2k2
Just like Nintendo, an okay system at first, but it gave birth to Eternal Darkness, Zelda, etc.

YES!!! go NES!!! The one that began my downfall shall never be forgotten. :D
 
Hyper threading is nice, but it's not the holy grail for cpu's.

Now don't get me wrong ilike hyperthreading.

Comparing the fx 51 to teh prescott price wise is not fair at all. It should be compared to the 3400+.

I think we just need to give it some time. It's a bit like the Wilmatte, It'll get better. The whole point of the longer pipeline is scalability and we'll see the benefits of that.

Right now if I were to buy a computer i wouldn't even consider the prescott.

Now in the summer I'll have to seriously give it a look but right now it's simply a stupid move IMO.

The prescott is a perfect example of why you SHOULD NOT jump on the latest thing right away. We'll see the 90 nm process mature and reap the rewards. Intel hasn't hyped up the prescott either. I mean where's all the publicity they usually get? They've made almost no promises on the preformance of it. So the let down some poeple seem to be having is unfounded except on rumors.
 
Originally posted by DryFire
Hyper threading is nice, but it's not the holy grail for cpu's.

Now don't get me wrong ilike hyperthreading.

Comparing the fx 51 to teh prescott price wise is not fair at all. It should be compared to the 3400+.

I think we just need to give it some time. It's a bit like the Wilmatte, It'll get better. The whole point of the longer pipeline is scalability and we'll see the benefits of that.

Right now if I were to buy a computer i wouldn't even consider the prescott.

Now in the summer I'll have to seriously give it a look but right now it's simply a stupid move IMO.

The prescott is a perfect example of why you SHOULD NOT jump on the latest thing right away. We'll see the 90 nm process mature and reap the rewards. Intel hasn't hyped up the prescott either. I mean where's all the publicity they usually get? They've made almost no promises on the preformance of it. So the let down some poeple seem to be having is unfounded except on rumors.

Exactly, there's always way to many people that'll jump on the newest technology out there and then start complaining.....saying it sux and shit.....even though it's just a simple matter of it not being mature yet.

I can hardly wait 'till summer to see what these two giants have got planned for my birthday. ;)

Seriously though, I wouldn't take the current Prescotts with a grain of salt right now. Everyone always knew that S478 wasn't going to be their permanent home so I really don't think they deserve the amount of negative critiscism they've been getting.

I realise it sounds like I'm sticking up for Intel a lot here but I really just want us to have a level playing field here from which to choose from.....that's only fair.
 
Originally posted by DryFire
I really think intel should of just gone 775 right off the bat.

Umm, yeah. Why don't you E-Mail them and let them know, I'm sure they'll get right on it. :rolleyes:

Come on, it isn't quite that simple. Of course they should have, but that's not what it's about. Even though it's different hardware, think back to Nvidia's 5800U. It can be said that they may have rushed things a bit to much.....and I'm just glad Intel's taking the time to get it right 'cus we really don't need to have one of these behemoths flop on us with all that's going on. :cool:
 
well that's true. of course $$$ plays a big part. If OEM's have to buy new boards they may take more time to adapt.

I think we should remember that the prescott is not like the P4 EE (or is it XE i think they changed it). It's meant to be a cheap and fast solution (or that's what allot of reviews pull from it).


It sure looks good...... on paper.
 
Originally posted by DryFire
well that's true. of course $$$ plays a big part. If OEM's have to buy new boards they may take more time to adapt.

I think we should remember that the prescott is not like the P4 EE (or is it XE i think they changed it). It's meant to be a cheap and fast solution (or that's what allot of reviews pull from it).


It sure looks good...... on paper.

Yeah but many things that've looked good on paper have flopped in the past.

*cough* nv30 *cough*
 
Considering AMDs high end Processor (the FX-51) is retailing for over $1,000 CDN and you can pick up a 3.2C for under $400.....I'd think this is kind of a no brainer.

I actually think its kind of ridiculous that he compared the regular 3.2ghz P4 against the FX. Seeing as the FX and P4 EE were meant to go up against each other that would be a more "fairer" comparison. It made no utter sense to compare the price of the regular 3.2 against the FX. Seems a bit "fanboyish" to me. Other than that simple matter, the topic was alright. I really havent seen much posts about "what system/processor to get" in the past couple weeks actually, here or in the AMD forum. I think people got the idea already to wait till the end of march and the start of summer to start upgrading. Not that i'm flaming your post...it just seems like you were letting off some steam and not really trying to help in the end of the situation with the offset comparison between the 3.2 non EE and FX.

By the way...
The FX (for its price $700usd) true is obsolete now that the 3400 has been released on the public, is still a bit of a better bargin when you look at the benchies here or over at anandtech. Though maybe you should of compared the 3400 to the 3.2ghz P4 no? They are around the same price ($400usd) Ask the public which ones faster if you dont know ;)
 
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