Should I Crossfire 5870?

[Vg33k]

My rig is in the sig.

I'm currently waiting for my new Corsair case so I can migrate to the new parts I bought (the Seasonic and MoBo). After I do that, I'm wondering if I should consider buying another 5870 for crossfire. I know the lower efficiency involved with the 5800 series, but I'd rather not sell the 5870; I just bought it a few months ago do to a failed 4870...although I did recieve a replacement for it, I decided to upgrade anyways.

This deal right here is kind of tempting me: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1598884

What is the general consensus on crossfiring at the 2560x1440? Is it worth it (with 5870's)?

 

[USMCGrunt]

I owned a pair of 5870s for about a year before upgrading to the 6k series. At that resolution you should have no problems running everything out atm on high. If you plan to go multi-monitor though, the 6900 series is really where you should be looking to go. The 5870s did alright for me but couldn't run most anything on highest settings (ESPECIALLY crysis) at eyefinity resolution.

 

[Vg33k]

I don't plan on going multi-monitor anytime soon. I am content with investing into 1 good monitor at a time (I'm not made of money, plus I'm just not interested in using more than one monitor).

I'm just curious if crossfiring at this resolution is worth it. I'm not sure if crossfiring 2x5870's will keep me comfortable for a while or if I should just wait until my single card can't handle the games as well anymore and invest in whatever the best deal is at that time. In other words, is it a good investment to make, future-proofing wise (within reason, obviously)?

 

[Lord_Exodia]

I don't plan on going multi-monitor anytime soon. I am content with investing into 1 good monitor at a time (I'm not made of money, plus I'm just not interested in using more than one monitor).

I'm just curious if crossfiring at this resolution is worth it. I'm not sure if crossfiring 2x5870's will keep me comfortable for a while or if I should just wait until my single card can't handle the games as well anymore and invest in whatever the best deal is at that time. In other words, is it a good investment to make, future-proofing wise (within reason, obviously)?

Hmm, if you can get the 2nd 5870 for $200 then let me paint a better scenario.

I know you dont want to sell but humor me for a minute here, sell the 5870 $150 sell the 4870 RMA return $100, now you have $250, add the $200 your considering spending on the 5870 and you have a total of $450.00

Get 2 6870 1GB cards and run them in crossfire. They should be a better solution than dual 5870 in every single way and outperform it as well.

$100 more invested would get you dual 6950s to unlock to dual 6970s.

I do not believe you will run everything as high as you think at 2560x1600. High settings yes, High Super Sample AA levels No. Where you would be able to run 2x AA on 5870 1GB crossfire you'd be able to run 4x SS AA on Barts 6870 crossfire.

 

[Vg33k]

Hmm...Interesting. The only reason I don't want to sell is that I'm not very experienced at it and it seems like a pain. I did have that 4870 still laying around, unsure what to do with it, so I guess I could try selling them...

Would upgrading to a single 6950 be reasonable enough? I'm not sure how it compares to a 6870 crossfire, but I'm willing to wait it out until I scrape enough money for a *possible* second 6950 (if I go along with that plan of selling off the other cards).

 

[Lord_Exodia]

Hmm...Interesting. The only reason I don't want to sell is that I'm not very experienced at it and it seems like a pain. I did have that 4870 still laying around, unsure what to do with it, so I guess I could try selling them...

Would upgrading to a single 6950 be reasonable enough? I'm not sure how it compares to a 6870 crossfire, but I'm willing to wait it out until I scrape enough money for a *possible* second 6950 (if I go along with that plan of selling off the other cards).

Dual 6870 is significantly faster than a single 6950 2gb even if flashed to a 6970 at 2560x1600. The amd 6000 series is seeing around 90-100% gains in crossfire X. The only way a 6970 would beat a 6870 crossfire at that resolution is if the settings are cranked rediculously high and the vram is saturated purposely. The fps on the 6970 would probably not be anything to write home about in that scenario either.

You can sell your cards here on the Hardforum in the FS/FT section, as you have already reached your 50 post minimum to qualify . If you don't have a heatware account www.heatware.com you can create one for free and begin building a rep. Shouldn't be too hard as I've had sucess buying/selling here on the forum. If you do manage to sell both cards and get 6870 crossfire I'd imagine you would be much happier with the end result. Anyone else concur?

 

[tory]

Dual 6870 is significantly faster than a single 6950 2gb even if flashed to a 6970 at 2560x1600. The amd 6000 series is seeing around 90-100% gains in crossfire X. The only way a 6970 would beat a 6870 crossfire at that resolution is if the settings are cranked rediculously high and the vram is saturated purposely. The fps on the 6970 would probably not be anything to write home about in that scenario either.

You can sell your cards here on the Hardforum in the FS/FT section, as you have already reached your 50 post minimum to qualify . If you don't have a heatware account www.heatware.com you can create one for free and begin building a rep. Shouldn't be too hard as I've had sucess buying/selling here on the forum. If you do manage to sell both cards and get 6870 crossfire I'd imagine you would be much happier with the end result. Anyone else concur?

Maybe im stupid but from every review i have seen the 1GB and 2GB 5870s are faster in more cases than not than the 6870 Single and CF. now in CF they are close to even.

Also i have noticed that the 5870s are just a few frames (~5-10) below and some times above 6950s as single cards and the 6950s pull ahead in CF.

I will gather a few reviews if needed. But it seems to me that (with my knowledge (limited)) that if he were to get CF 6870s vs CF 5870s then he would have about equal performance with either.



EDIT: also what games do you play??

 

[Vg33k]

I'm just not sure if I can actually afford to buy a second card just yet...plus the price difference between the 6870 and 6970 right now is pretty small. I'm not sure if I can actually conjure the additional $200+ (after potentially selling my other 2 cards and buying the other)...that's why I was willing to go with the 6950 and wait until I can afford a second one...is that a good plan?

 

[Lord_Exodia]

Maybe im stupid but from every review i have seen the 1GB and 2GB 5870s are faster in more cases than not than the 6870 Single and CF. now in CF they are close to even.

Also i have noticed that the 5870s are just a few frames (~5-10) below 6950s as single cards and the 6950s pull ahead in CF.

I will gather a few reviews if needed. But it seems to me that (with my knowledge (limited)) that if he were to get CF 6870s vs CF 5870s then he would have about equal performance with either.



EDIT: also what games do you play??

Not from the reviews I've seen, keep in mind I usually read reviews that show real world performance during gameplay, not a bunch of canned benchmarks although I've looked at those too.

I've seen


* 1 5870 (1GB or 2GB) > 6870 by about 10%
* 2 6870s 1gb > 2 5870 1gb by 10% or more on 50% of games 15% faster or so in 25% of games and maybe even 20% faster or so in 23% of games.
* Only slower or barely faster in 2% of games.
Edit: Also 6800 series crossfire simply works better in general despite scaling. There is a real problem with 5800 series multi gpu where some times you get negative scaling or no scaling at all. This simply happens never or too rare to even mention on Barts (6800 series)

I'm just not sure if I can actually afford to buy a second card just yet...plus the price difference between the 6870 and 6970 right now is pretty small. I'm not sure if I can actually conjure the additional $200+ (after potentially selling my other 2 cards and buying the other)...that's why I was willing to go with the 6950 and wait until I can afford a second one...is that a good plan?

I don't think that is a good idea, as you will be down 2 cards and end up with 1 card that is barely faster than the card you were using. Then if you never can save up money for the 2nd 6950 you'll never fully bennefit from the upgrade path and maybe have buyers remorse.

What I suggested will get you a big boost over the single 5870 1gb all while spending the same you would have spent for the second card by using the money recovered from selling the first 2

 

[tory]

Not from the reviews I've seen, keep in mind I usually read reviews that show real world performance during gameplay, not a bunch of canned benchmarks although I've looked at those too.

I've seen


* 1 5870 (1GB or 2GB) > 6870 by about 10%
* 2 6870s 1gb > 2 5870 1gb by 10% or more on 50% of games 15% faster or so in 25% of games and maybe even 20% faster or so in 23% of games.
* Only slower or barely faster in 2% of games.

Then may i ask where yo find these reviews?

And also 6870s would probably be better by what you say even if say the OP plays those games with the scaling issues fixed from the 5 to 6 series.

 

[Vg33k]

I will gather a few reviews if needed. But it seems to me that (with my knowledge (limited)) that if he were to get CF 6870s vs CF 5870s then he would have about equal performance with either.

EDIT: also what games do you play??

This is what I was worries about, is the performance difference really that minimal?
It's been a while since I've read any reviews, so my memory is fuzzy I'm afraid.

As for games, l play a bit of Just Cause 2, Fallout 3/New Vegas, Mafia 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Resident Evil 5, Dead Rising 2, Far Cry 2, etc. Those some of the big ones off the top of my head (that are GPU taxing anyways). My list of steam games is waaaay too big to list from memory. Some games are taxing, other aren't; it's a mixed bag I suppose.

I do own Metro 2033, but that game is a beast that no one can max, lol. I also own Crysis 1, but I can't find the damn cd key for it, so I haven't played it in a while (not since I gamed with the 4870).

 

[Harry1969]

Save your money and buy another 5870. The 5870 still holds it's own against todays top video cards.

 

[Vg33k]

What I suggested will get you a big boost over the single 5870 1gb all while spending the same you would have spent for the second card by using the money recovered from selling the first 2

I understand that. But I'm saying that I probably couldn't afford a second card (whether it's a 6870 or a 6950. The price is rather similiar between these 2 right now anyways).

 

[Lord_Exodia]

I understand that. But I'm saying that I probably couldn't afford a second card (whether it's a 6870 or a 6950. The price is rather similiar between these 2 right now anyways).

I'm confused, are you saying that you can't afford to spend $200 on a 2nd 5870 either?

Selling your 2 cards would pay for 1 6870
Using the $200 you plan to possibly spend on a 2nd 5870 would get you the 2nd 6870

What am I missing here. The only way you couldn't have enough money to get a 2nd 6870 is if you don't have enough money to get the 2nd 5870 then why start the thread in the first place so there is obviously something going over my head.

So if your asking should you keep your single 5870 or get a 6870 my answer would be keep what you have. If your saying you have a 5870, a 4870 and $200 to spend I'd say sell the 2 cards gaining $250 and pair that $250 with the $200 you already have and get 2 6870s. $450 is enough to get 2 6870s

 

[Lord_Exodia]

Then may i ask where yo find these reviews?

And also 6870s would probably be better by what you say even if say the OP plays those games with the scaling issues fixed from the 5 to 6 series.

I don't have the time to hunt them down, but if you can find any reviews that show different than what I'm saying across the board post them. I'll revisit this thread later and post some reviews when I have time to deep search them. I used to have them bookmarked before my last reformat. I thought it was a consensus that

6870 crossfire X is > 5870 1gb Crossfire X by a decent enough margin but I guess If I have to prove that I have no problem when I get time to find some of the many reviews out there.

 

[Vg33k]

I'm confused, are you saying that you can't afford to spend $200 on a 2nd 5870 either?

I don't think I made this clear, but I was discussing this as a hypothetical scenario.

I *might* buy a second. But I'm getting your guys' opinion on it first and I would need to save up for a little bit; as in, I don't have the cash right now. This is an upgrade that might eventually happen, but it's not going to happen this instant. Maybe in a few weeks from now, we'll see.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

I don't think I made this clear, but I was discussing this as a hypothetical scenario.

I *might* buy a second. But I'm getting your guys' opinion on it first and I would need to save up for a little bit; as in, I don't have the cash right now. This is an upgrade that might eventually happen, but it's not going to happen this instant. Maybe in a few weeks from now, we'll see.

In that case and I mean this respectfully /thread and post when that time comes. Who knows what will be different in a few weeks. Maybe there will be 6950s for $219.99 after MIR which would change everything. The videocard business changes too fast to really get the best answer weeks ahead of time.

So you know my current opinion, if you ask again in say 3 weeks that may/may not change. I'd make sure to either post another thread in the few weeks when your ready to go or simply necro this thread and ask again when that time comes.

 

[tory]

I don't have the time to hunt them down, but if you can find any reviews that show different than what I'm saying across the board post them. I'll revisit this thread later and post some reviews when I have time to deep search them. I used to have them bookmarked before my last reformat. I thought it was a consensus that

6870 crossfire X is > 5870 1gb Crossfire X by a decent enough margin but I guess If I have to prove that I have no problem when I get time to find some of the many reviews out there.

I dont necessarily need proof i guess just a few places to look that actually show gameplay and not benches, since not every review site states that they use benches or gameplay.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

I dont necessarily need proof i guess just a few places to look that actually show gameplay and not benches, since not every review site states that they use benches or gameplay.

Real quick off the top of my head

Hardocp
Hardware Canucks
Guru 3d
Kit Guru
Hardware Heaven

A few others too but I can't remember off the top of my head

 

[spaceman]

For GPUs wait a bit longer. Save your money. Be a patient hunter and find some tall grass to crouch in. I did and got a 5850 for $130 a while back. Good enough card for now.

I am pretty sure Nvidia or it's affiliate builders are going to come out with a response to the 6950 2gb soonish. Just a guess but I would not pay more than $210-220 for a 6950 2gb much less a 1gb.

 

[Vg33k]

Thanks for all the tips so far.

Buying a second card or upgrading my current one isn't top priority at the moment, but I wanted to get a refresher on the values of these cards, regardless.

I'll try to sell my 4870, anyways, as I don't need it anymore (and need to build rep and experience selling). I'll keep on the lookout for deals as they come up.

 

[tory]

Real quick off the top of my head

Hardocp
Hardware Canucks
Guru 3d
Kit Guru
Hardware Heaven

A few others too but I can't remember off the top of my head

Cool man thanks for the info some of those are the main reviews i look at.

/unthreadjack

But yea to OP just post back in this thread in a few weeks when you want to upgrade and a lot of people here will give you all the info you need.

 

[ltcharles]

Yeah +1 here on getting as second 5870. If you dont mind buying used stuff I saw one one for $150 on craigslist and another one for $180 on ebay classifieds.

 

[Reality]

I'm in the same boat... What kind of performance gains would I see by grabbing a 2nd 5870 Eyefinity6 card running CFX? Resolution: 3518x1920 (3x1920x1080 in Portrait), system in sig....

 

[bigpaw]

I just sold my two 5870's and I'm now running one 6970 (flashed from a 6950) with the 11.4 previews and call me crazy, as I know one 6970 doesn't equal two 5870's, but things are just running smoother gaming wise, I'm gaming @ 2560x1600 so I'm assuming the 2 gigs on the card help out a ton at my res. With that said, for you setup, I think a 2nd 5870 would be nice.

 

[cheapo]

why not just sell the 5870 and buy a 6970

 

[USMCGrunt]

I really wouldn't recommend spending the money on another 5870....should go and get yourself a 6970.

 

[tory]

I'm in the same boat... What kind of performance gains would I see by grabbing a 2nd 5870 Eyefinity6 card running CFX? Resolution: 3518x1920 (3x1920x1080 in Portrait), system in sig....

If you have Future interest in 5x1 or 3x2 then I would get either another 5870 E6 or 2, OR you can get a 6990 that is limited to 5x1.

If you have no interest in doing than then I would Sell the 5870 and get a 6950 or 2 since there about the same price as a 5870 E6 card. Unlock shaders then OC.

 

[Llama[Style]]

in Anandtech's recent yearly test 6870cf vs 5870cf, the gain is minimal for single monitor testing against each other, which is what you are targeting... these are both 1gb versions [2011 gpu testing w/ very recent drivers]

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/300?vs=301

In most games tested, the 5870cf wins out.

imho, i would keep your current 5870 and just pick up an additional 5870, the 6870 does save on energy, but it's not worth it going through the hassle of selling your current 5870 and picking up 2 6870s. Both prices are on par with each other, so really, it is an either or.

The 6000 series obviously will have more current support, but really, if you're THAT concerned with a few fps, then go with the 6870s.

As other's have stated.. IF you want to stick with a single card, def sell your 5870 and pick up a 6950, then unlock it to a 6970 [very high success rate, GG]. The 2gb vram cannot be ignored.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

in Anandtech's recent yearly test 6870cf vs 5870cf, the gain is minimal for single monitor testing against each other, which is what you are targeting... these are both 1gb versions [2011 gpu testing w/ very recent drivers]

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/300?vs=301

In most games tested, the 5870cf wins out.

imho, i would keep your current 5870 and just pick up an additional 5870, the 6870 does save on energy, but it's not worth it going through the hassle of selling your current 5870 and picking up 2 6870s. Both prices are on par with each other, so really, it is an either or.

The 6000 series obviously will have more current support, but really, if you're THAT concerned with a few fps, then go with the 6870s.

As other's have stated.. IF you want to stick with a single card, def sell your 5870 and pick up a 6950, then unlock it to a 6970 [very high success rate, GG]. The 2gb vram cannot be ignored.

First thing, Welcome to Hardocp and the forums, secondly I need to make sure your aware of something. Since your quoting Anantech you need to understand that Anandtech's data is useless when it comes to the core reason you are going to buy a video card. TBH that actually depends on the person. I buy my card to play video games. I don't buy my card to run benchmarks or canned time demos. What you just linked simply shows how the 5870 (more than likely 2gb but they dont say) crossfire can do vs a crossfire 6870 1gb setup only in those canned benchmarks.

Canned benchmarks do not always or even most of the time equate to how the game will run at all. Many times if you can run a benchmark at a certain setting with just playable framerates you will have to lower the settings while you play. Hardocp found this out a while ago and while anandtech continues to do canned benchmarks the old fashioned way their benchmarks and articles have lost relevance as when many other sites who measure actual performance while you do what most people intend to do when they actually play a game they find that there is a difference in performance.

In real world performance the 6870 crossfire setup beats out the 5870 crossfire in most apps. 5870 even has 0 scaling at times and even in some rare occasions negative scaling in crossfire. These issues don't plague 6870 crossfire. 5870 had numerous crossfire issues some of which have been resolved and some that continue to plague that setup. 6000 series simply is better in every way hands down. This specific comparison 5870 1gb vs 6870 1gb that has come to the OP's attention will probably not only favor the 6870 setup by a few fps but stability, scaling, and future peace of mind as well will all favor 6870 crossfire. I'm gonna bet that the benchmarks you linked are for the 2gb 5870 as crysis uses more than 1gb of vram at 2560x1600 4x AA and it does as well at 4x AA 19x12 if your using high AA settings e.g. SS AA etc..Is there even a way to specify which 5870 crossfire is being compared? If not the data is useless for that reason alone, let alone what I just explained.

Using the old 2004 way of benchmarking to decide your purchase may be fine for some, but in all honesty since I plan to actually play games rather than lay back in my chair and run canned time demos I find it much more relevant to see how my card will perform during game.

Articles you should read to educate yourself on this topic

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2008/02/11/benchmarking_benchmarks

Anandtech also does all kinds of strange configuration and settings that make people scratch their head. E.G. they will run cpu bottlenecked settings in game then scratch their head and wonder why the strange results across the several setups, or they will run settings that hog up all of only certain videocards ram and wonder why performance tanked on certain gpu's and attribute that to bugs etc.. They seem to be stuck in 2004 TBH and that is why their articles get a skim at best from me and I no longer avidly read their videocard performance reviews

This is like the matrix, you can continue to believe what you see around you and be happy with what you see in anand tech's articles or you can take the pill and realize that you are really jacked into a virtual world and everything you thought you knew was bullshit. Choose where you go from this point. Sometimes the truth is very ugly and grim and ignorance is bliss, as many can't handle the truth, or care to re-learn something they invested countless hours learning. I hope you choose to stay here at hardocp and learn more about the real state of gaming and how hardocp and many other sites are moving in the right direction by changing the old way of doing things.

 

[USMCGrunt]

First thing, Welcome to Hardocp and the forums, secondly I need to make sure your aware of something. Since your quoting Anantech you need to understand that Anandtech's data is useless when it comes to the core reason you are going to buy a video card. TBH that actually depends on the person. I buy my card to play video games. I don't buy my card to run benchmarks or canned time demos. What you just linked simply shows how the 5870 (more than likely 2gb but they dont say) crossfire can do vs a crossfire 6870 1gb setup only in those canned benchmarks.

Canned benchmarks do not always or even most of the time equate to how the game will run at all. Many times if you can run a benchmark at a certain setting with just playable framerates you will have to lower the settings while you play. Hardocp found this out a while ago and while anandtech continues to do canned benchmarks the old fashioned way their benchmarks and articles have lost relevance as when many other sites who measure actual performance while you do what most people intend to do when they actually play a game they find that there is a difference in performance.

In real world performance the 6870 crossfire setup beats out the 5870 crossfire in most apps. 5870 even has 0 scaling at times and even in some rare occasions negative scaling in crossfire. These issues don't plague 6870 crossfire. 5870 had numerous crossfire issues some of which have been resolved and some that continue to plague that setup. 6000 series simply is better in every way hands down. This specific comparison 5870 1gb vs 6870 1gb that has come to the OP's attention will probably not only favor the 6870 setup by a few fps but stability, scaling, and future peace of mind as well will all favor 6870 crossfire. I'm gonna bet that the benchmarks you linked are for the 2gb 5870 as crysis uses more than 1gb of vram at 2560x1600 4x AA and it does as well at 4x AA 19x12 if your using high AA settings e.g. SS AA etc..Is there even a way to specify which 5870 crossfire is being compared? If not the data is useless for that reason alone, let alone what I just explained.

Using the old 2004 way of benchmarking to decide your purchase may be fine for some, but in all honesty since I plan to actually play games rather than lay back in my chair and run canned time demos I find it much more relevant to see how my card will perform during game.

Articles you should read to educate yourself on this topic

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2008/02/11/benchmarking_benchmarks

Anandtech also does all kinds of strange configuration and settings that make people scratch their head. E.G. they will run cpu bottlenecked settings in game then scratch their head and wonder why the strange results across the several setups, or they will run settings that hog up all of only certain videocards ram and wonder why performance tanked on certain gpu's and attribute that to bugs etc.. They seem to be stuck in 2004 TBH and that is why their articles get a skim at best from me and I no longer avidly read their videocard performance reviews

This is like the matrix, you can continue to believe what you see around you and be happy with what you see in anand tech's articles or you can take the pill and realize that you are really jacked into a virtual world and everything you thought you knew was bullshit. Choose where you go from this point. Sometimes the truth is very ugly and grim and ignorance is bliss, as many can't handle the truth, or care to re-learn something they invested countless hours learning. I hope you choose to stay here at hardocp and learn more about the real state of gaming and how hardocp and many other sites are moving in the right direction by changing the old way of doing things.

Lord_Exodia = Winning, DUH!

 

[bAMtan2]

Should I Crossfire 5870?

no.

SLI and Crossfire are pretty bad because of the extra hassle. game problems. driver problems. do you like microstutter? how fun.

if you need faster than gtx 580 performance, then by all means SLI two of them together.

if not, just sell your junk and upgrade to a single faster card.

 

[USMCGrunt]

no.

SLI and Crossfire are pretty bad because of the extra hassle. game problems. driver problems. do you like microstutter? how fun.

if you need faster than gtx 580 performance, then by all means SLI two of them together.

if not, just sell your junk and upgrade to a single faster card.

oh and the hater speaks lol.

I've ran 260s in SLI, 5870s CF, and now 6970s in CF and the only game I have any issues with is Bad Company 2...though they seem to be expecting more then i should lol. The only game that ive run into with multi-card compatability is DCS A-10 and the devs have said they didn't code the game for it purposely (dicks ) and once I disable CF its all good.

As far as microstutter goes, I have yet to experiance this yet though from my understanding its more prevelent on single card multi-gpu setups then multi-card setups.

[begin sarcasm]Extra hassle...oh man, lemme tell you how hard the 10 minutes it took to connect an SLI/CF bridge and run the PSU cables over for additional power...it was SUCH a hassle [/end sarcasm]

Drivers from both sides are equally shitty just in different ways regardless of the number of cards you have.