SFF Server Advice

[Xisdibik]

Hello everyone,

long time no post for me. Here is the scoop, I currently use a old laptop gifted to me by my work as the screen is damaged as my server.

I forgot who makes the computer but the specifications on it are as follows:

Core 2 T7200 @ 2.0 Ghz
2GB Ram (DDR2 Ram but not sure what speed no more than 667 i would guess)
120 GB 5400 RPM hdd
1.5 TB Western Digital external USB 2 HDD
GeForce Go 7300 video card

I never leave the screen open I always remotely access it, it currently runs Windows Server 2k8 R2 (I have access to it for free )

Currently all it does is host my videos/music, and host a Minecraft server and stream videos/music to my PS3.
I plan to hopefully add to this list. a IRC node, a website (small), and hosting files for remote access when im not at home.

I am not sure what the wattage on the system is, but my friend estimated including the external HDD that its probably 55-95 watts.

Japan is a bit expensive utility wise from what I have heard and so I am trying to debate if building (once I am there) a SFF machine to do be the server would be a good route to go. The laptop cannot take any more than 2GB of ram, which is unfortunate in my opinion.

If you think a SFF machine would be a better option, what would you suggest for those things I would like to be doing.

here is a easier to read list of what I would need.

the ability to stream 1080p content to a PS3 / PC (I will have a full fledge desktop hooked up to a HDTV for gaming)
host a minecraft server with up to 5-10 people playing peak time (hasnt happend yet but will).
host files/music/movies/etc.
host a small website
host a IRC server.

I am open to OS options on SFF machines as well, but one of my biggest things I like is integration. I am a avid user of MS Office especially for OneNote which i sync with my iPhone. The ability to easily access and work on my server from both, and network them easily is a big plus. I have access to Server 2k8 R2, or even 2k3, or 2k8. I do not have access to WHS though unfortunately. I have installed Linux on machines before, but never a full fledged Server.

the budget is negotiable, but nothing to high.

Power is the biggest concern, nothing more than the laptop would use less being what I am after.
In terms of case, something that would have space for some hdd's as id prefer to go internal than external.
quiet is good, as I may have a pretty small apartment in Japan so going to sleep with a jet engine in the background is less than ideal. I might be close to the big tech center of Japan, Akihabara, so finding parts may not be too difficult.

If anyone has some questions please feel free to ask!

Xisdibik

 

[bastage]

I don't know what kind of cpu power you need for mine craft, but if its not too intensive the mitx asus zocate board that just came out sounds like it would do well. As for the case it depends on how many hdd you want. But if space is an issue then I would try to avoid external drives.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Xisdibik]

I cant say for sure at 5-10 people, but I can't say its to much CPU for running the minecraft server.

As for space, ive seen some interesting small cases that can take 4-6 HDD's, but I would guess I would want somewhere between 2 and 6 hdds (probably start with 2 and upgrade as needed). Space is slightly less important than wattage.

 

[Machupo]

Yeah, was doing a bit of reading (don't play minecraft) and it looks like zacate might not have the horsepower to push a minecraft server... nobody really knows for sure. Ok, now i've seen a couple articles that say that it might work (comparatively to an ION, but no direct tests).

The problem is that you're not going to find much else in your power envelope that will work unless you go mobile again, since minecraft doesn't seem to scale with extra cores

Best way around is to find someone that has one already and test it!

 

[bastage]

Yeah, was doing a bit of reading (don't play minecraft) and it looks like zacate might not have the horsepower to push a minecraft server... nobody really knows for sure. Ok, now i've seen a couple articles that say that it might work (comparatively to an ION, but no direct tests).

The problem is that you're not going to find much else in your power envelope that will work unless you go mobile again, since minecraft doesn't seem to scale with extra cores

Best way around is to find someone that has one already and test it!

Where did you find that.. What I found is that a Minecraft server takes almost no CPU power. Several people running them off of p4's at less then 2ghz. & Considering that well.. P4 3ghz < Atom 330 < Atom D510 < Zocate.. I Dont think there will be any issues with a zocate running a minecraft server. Goggling it tuurns up several people using atoms for minecraft servers. infact minecraftaddicts.com uses an atom for there dedicated server (also I know there thing says there using a 4 core chip, but its actually a 2 core with hyper threading so still much less powert hen zocate)

 

[Machupo]

ok -- sounds good, like I said I've never dealt with minecraft, was just googling for server builds (didn't save any of the links).

E35M1-I Deluxe + 4GB DDR3 + WD20EARS + Boot usb3 thumbdrive + Haby w/ built in psu sounds like it would work great

 

[bastage]

ok -- sounds good, like I said I've never dealt with minecraft, was just googling for server builds (didn't save any of the links).

E35M1-I Deluxe + 4GB DDR3 + WD20EARS + Boot usb3 thumbdrive + Haby w/ built in psu sounds like it would work great

Other then the HDD the rest would work. I found several posts stating HDD speed is essential for a minecraft server so I would say a Samsing f3 1tb since its a much faster drive (not to mention cheaper). & if you can swing it I would do 8gb ram right from the start.

 

[Xisdibik]

Forgive me if its just my being exhausted and brain not functioning, but what is a "Haby"

I will say I get the occasional "cant keep up" error message in my logs on the T7200, but that could be because its windows + other stuff running in background.

interms of actualy performance its usually pretty smooth with hiccups occasionally, and when the memory gets hogged up pretty high.

im just hoping to save some watts and have it be a real little server instead of a ghetto laptop under a radio.

Just curious but how would a zacate rate for video playback? I plan to use my main desktop for that currently, but just wondered if it had the power to be a HTPC type deal.

 

[bastage]

Forgive me if its just my being exhausted and brain not functioning, but what is a "Haby"

I will say I get the occasional "cant keep up" error message in my logs on the T7200, but that could be because its windows + other stuff running in background.

interms of actualy performance its usually pretty smooth with hiccups occasionally, and when the memory gets hogged up pretty high.

im just hoping to save some watts and have it be a real little server instead of a ghetto laptop under a radio.

Just curious but how would a zacate rate for video playback? I plan to use my main desktop for that currently, but just wondered if it had the power to be a HTPC type deal.

Oops I though I linked the Habey in this thread already. There is someone else asking for almost the same thing as you (minecraft as well) in the Gen Hard forum & I have posted in both.

As far as the server cant keep up error I would suspect thats related to your Ram more then your CPU from the little reading I have done. I Would recomend if you can swing it in budget go straight to 8 gb ram. Especially if your going to run a 64 bit linux distro.

For video playback the zocate should be an ace for pretty much anything you throw at it. The onboard video is a radeon 6310 if I remember right.

 

[Xisdibik]

Oops I though I linked the Habey in this thread already. There is someone else asking for almost the same thing as you (minecraft as well) in the Gen Hard forum & I have posted in both.

As far as the server cant keep up error I would suspect thats related to your Ram more then your CPU from the little reading I have done. I Would recomend if you can swing it in budget go straight to 8 gb ram. Especially if your going to run a 64 bit linux distro.

For video playback the zocate should be an ace for pretty much anything you throw at it. The onboard video is a radeon 6310 if I remember right.

I would think using a 64bit Linux OS would make having more ram less important since it itself doesnt use as much memory as say. windows 2k8 R2. neither costs me money, so making it cheaper via linux isnt a big issue. I was thinking of giving Linux another go though as I enjoy the learning experiance. As long as I can integrate it with everything perfectly

 

[bastage]

Right, I recommended 8gb since the OS would be able to take advantage & utilize it all. I Found several performance related posts on the net about minecraft that all boiled down to not having enough memory. So I Figured if you had the cash you could use you could go straight to 8gb & not have to worry about not having enough.

 

[Xisdibik]

Yeah, and I may do that. I am more likely to hold off on adding more HDDs than I am with waiting on a RAM upgrade.

Any recommendations on cases besides the Habey (preferably readily accessible ones because Japan may or may not have the obscure ones)
as I am not sure that will be easy to get in Japan

 

[bastage]

Yeah, and I may do that. I am more likely to hold off on adding more HDDs than I am with waiting on a RAM upgrade.

Any recommendations on cases besides the Habey (preferably readily accessible ones because Japan may or may not have the obscure ones)
as I am not sure that will be easy to get in Japan

In japan you will probably have an easier time getting the Fractal Design Array R2 which is about the pimpest little box you can get for a SFF server. If that doesnt work out the Lian Li q08 is always a top contender for any SFF server as well.

 

[rhansen5_99]

Just out of curiosity if you are in a power envelope and the likes, then why use another computer for your gaming, and a ps3 uses a ton of power. I think your best bet would be to consolidate everything into one box as far as the computers. So maybe build a really high end itx box for gaming and your server needs?

I would go with the sandybridge and a 2500k, maybe some 8gb of ram(16 maybe?), maybe a nvidia 560 gtx or ATI 6950 2gb moded to the 6970. Add a 3tb hdd and ssd for boot stuff all of that into a silverstone g05 with the 450 watt ps. As for the serving if you need iis, setup a vmware server and allocate enough to server your irc and iis stuff, and host mine craft on your root. You still should have plenty of power to play games while all of this is going on. Or maybe setup server 2k8r2 locally and setup hyper v with remote fx and host the minecraft server in a vm? Does minecraft require directx acceleration?

You could probably pull this off for less than 800...

just my 2c however.

 

[Andrew_Carr]

fwiw, my experience with japan (& now korea) has been that components cost more than in the US and apple products are ridiculously expensive, but most stuff is still readily available. With the horrible exchange rate now I expect products in Japan will all be a good deal more expensive than the US. The one exception I see in South Korea, and I think it was somewhat prevalent in japan too, was that good name PSUs were hard to come by. Here they're hard to find and cost about 2-3x American prices. Japan has a more quality oriented culture but I'd still expect the prices to be hideous.

I can't remember akihabara as well as korea since it's been awhile, but it's about 50% consoles/anime figures, 40% camera and accessories, 10% everything else. Although you can find really obscure things like individual capacitors, transistors, etc. they're not the main feature. It's an amazing place but most descriptions I read about it were inaccurate. I'd go a little overboard on parts just in case, so that you don't pay $40 later for something you could've brought over for $10.


Use
http://www.biccamera.com/
and
http://shopping.yahoo.co.jp/

To price match. Bic Camera is an electronics shopping mall(usually seems like 6-8 stories) and can be found in most major cities. There should be several in Tokyo.

For example, a phenom II 1100t is $360 on bic camera and $229 on amazon. Most other AMD processors seem to be about $20-30 more expensive at least. Video cards also usually carry a big mark-up.


Also, have you considered running the server in the US? You're going to have about a minimum latency of 200-300ms to the US so that's something to consider. I think I get 260-290ms to the west coast and about 300-400ms to the east coast from South Korea. Speed test lists it as 173ms to west coast and 228ms to the east coast, but I've noticed it to be much worse when connecting to gaming servers.

 

[bastage]

Just out of curiosity if you are in a power envelope and the likes, then why use another computer for your gaming, and a ps3 uses a ton of power. I think your best bet would be to consolidate everything into one box as far as the computers. So maybe build a really high end itx box for gaming and your server needs?

I would go with the sandybridge and a 2500k, maybe some 8gb of ram(16 maybe?), maybe a nvidia 560 gtx or ATI 6950 2gb moded to the 6970. Add a 3tb hdd and ssd for boot stuff all of that into a silverstone g05 with the 450 watt ps. As for the serving if you need iis, setup a vmware server and allocate enough to server your irc and iis stuff, and host mine craft on your root. You still should have plenty of power to play games while all of this is going on. Or maybe setup server 2k8r2 locally and setup hyper v with remote fx and host the minecraft server in a vm? Does minecraft require directx acceleration?

You could probably pull this off for less than 800...

just my 2c however.

Mind sharing some of whatever you have been smoking? The point of a low power server was so it uses less power. Why would you put a bunch power hungry components in a server to leave on 24/7.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Xisdibik]

Mind sharing some of whatever you have been smoking? The point of a low power server was so it uses less power. Why would you put a bunch power hungry components in a server to leave on 24/7.
Posted via Mobile Device

Exactly what was on my mind when I read his post. While that might "save" a small amount of power when im gaming, the power usage would be much higher for the other 16 hours when my PS3/Gaming rig are off.

As to the person before you who posted about bic camera etc.
I have been to Japan 5 times including staying about 10 minutes walk from Akihabara, so ive seen what they have to offer. I do know about biccamera, yahoo, and also amazon.co.jp is another option. But you did make a good point about prices being cheaper here than there (which I expected). With the yen getting stronger though, I would actualy expect prices to be dropping rather than increasing as their increased strength means more imports and less exports.

The problem I have is fitting my desktop (minus the case) into my suitcase + my server + PS3 + Wii + my netbook + my actualy laptop im typing to right now (carryon for that one) plus my clothes + toiletries etc for 2 suitcases under 50lbs. (can pay 50$ per suitcase to hit 70lbs each of 110$ for a third suitcase (hard to carry 3 around though).

So thats the idea behind bringing my laptop server for now and building it there.

edit: I am very much so considering leaving the wii behind in favor of the PS3 as to bring the wii is extra space for something i may not use very much. May "donate" it to my mother, for her to use until she comes to visit and can bring it separately.

 

[Andrew_Carr]

Well the problem I didn't foresee before living in Asia is that they subsidize the price of exports so that people will still buy them. I think the leaf is like $10k or so cheaper here than in Japan, if you compare both prices in dollars. So I'm not sure what currency you'll be paid in but that's something to consider.

I have a relatively large shuttle SFF case right now but it fit fine in my hard plastic suitcase(which U.S. customs promptly kicked around and broke). My other checked bag went to China and back and that's how I lost 2 hard drives(they got thrown around a bit too much).

You could try putting your ps3, wii, laptop, and some other valuables in a small piece of luggage as your carry on, then some more stuff in your backpack, and then you have a suitcase for clothes & misc. stuff. I'm a fan of japanese clothes, so I'd end up bringing like 2 pairs of jeans and leaving everything else tbh.


Actually, I can't believe I forgot this but here's a better way to do everything. Just buy as many Levi's as you can and pack everything full of those. Then resell them and use the huge profits to buy a house and some computers. win win situation imo.

 

[JHwangHF]

If I were you, I'd go with a SFF PC for the server. A HP Slimline or similar SFF PC has a 3.5" HDD and a full-height 5.25" ODD bay. The ODD bay can can swap to a 2nd HDD and a laptop DVD for server duty.

Once that's done, if HDD speed was the issue, you could build a blazing server with a couple 15k rpm HDDs, or go totally nuts by replacing the ODD with a 4x SSD array.

 

[Xisdibik]

Hey sorry for the delayed reply, you can imagine how things have been with my plans to go to Japan with the earthquake and tsunami and nuclear reactors etc.

Anyways, since I may be looking at more time, theres a possibility of building a new server here.

What hardware besides the hdds is the most fragile. I thought about possibly the hdds and such being in the carryone. Theres just no way to fit everything into the carryon most likely with enough padding and other stuff. but we shall see. I havent actualy put stuff into the suitcase yet since im using my desktop PC still

I am pondering if I should build the little zacate machine with a small not so heavy case, and just bring that and junk the old laptop prior to departure.

 

[JHwangHF]

@OP: BTW, what did you end up doing?

 

[Xisdibik]

@OP: BTW, what did you end up doing?

Heh, doubt you may wander back in here but incase you do.

I ended up just sitting on my hands and waiting (since there were still delays in my going to Japan due to some obvious reasons back then

I do have a tentative date now for going there and will probably build a SFF server over time once I am there instead of lugging it over there. Still debating between a zacate or a low power icore build.

 

[JHwangHF]

OK, thanks for the follow-up.