Several macOS Monterey Features Unavailable on Intel-Based Macs

DukenukemX

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Good to be an Apple user.

  • Portrait Mode blurred backgrounds in FaceTime videos
  • Live Text for copying and pasting, looking up, or translating text within photos
  • An interactive 3D globe of Earth in the Maps app
  • More detailed maps in cities like San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, and London in the Maps app
  • Text-to-speech in more languages, including Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, and Finnish
  • On-device keyboard dictation that performs all processing completely offline
  • Unlimited keyboard dictation (previously limited to 60 seconds per instance)
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/09/macos-monterey-features-for-m1-macs-only/

live-text-macos-monterey.jpg
 

serpretetsky

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Some of these I get since they probably use dedicated hardware on the M1 chip and they dont want to spend time optimizing for general purpose cpu.
But for this feature:
An interactive 3D globe of Earth in the Maps app
that better be the most amazing 3d globe I have ever seen ! :D
 

Lakados

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Some of these I get since they probably use dedicated hardware on the M1 chip and they dont want to spend time optimizing for general purpose cpu.
But for this feature:

that better be the most amazing 3d globe I have ever seen ! :D
I mean I get it, the GPU on the Intel based Mac’s isn’t exactly the greatest unless they got the pro’s with the AMD GPU which still isn’t great and probably gets trounced by the M1.
But agreed that better be the most sploogtastic globe I’ve ever seen.
 

Red Falcon

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I wonder how Google Earth's managed to have an interactive 3D globe of the earth without a "neural engine" for all these years.
Exactly, and I remember using it back in 2006 for the first time on an Athlon 64 single-core CPU and a GeForce MX4000 64MB GPU.
Yet a modern Intel x86-64 CPU and IRIS GPU can't handle their interactive 3D globe... *cough* Corporatism *cough*
 
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GiGaBiTe

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Some of these I get since they probably use dedicated hardware on the M1 chip and they dont want to spend time optimizing for general purpose cpu.
But for this feature:

that better be the most amazing 3d globe I have ever seen ! :D

None of those features require M1 silicon, Apple is just forcing obsolescence like they always do, it's nothing new. Apple hates you using their old stuff and will punish you for doing so, if you're not a good little iZombie and buy their new machines every couple of years, they punish you by dropping features or artificially slowing your iDevice down to try and get you to upgrade. There have been multiple class action lawsuits about this over the years, and Apple basically always loses and has to pay out millions. Of course Apple users only see pennies on the dollar of this money, the lions share goes to the lawyers who litigate the settlements.

Apple is top of the list for being the worst anti-consumer company in the world, and has been for the better part of 20 years. Not to say they weren't bad before that, they went downhill back in 1984 with the release of the Macintosh. Jobs didn't want to have anything or anyone messing with his precious, and did his worst to make it happen. His legacy has lived on to the detriment of everyone.
 

alxlwson

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None of those features require M1 silicon, Apple is just forcing obsolescence like they always do, it's nothing new. Apple hates you using their old stuff and will punish you for doing so, if you're not a good little iZombie and buy their new machines every couple of years, they punish you by dropping features or artificially slowing your iDevice down to try and get you to upgrade. There have been multiple class action lawsuits about this over the years, and Apple basically always loses and has to pay out millions. Of course Apple users only see pennies on the dollar of this money, the lions share goes to the lawyers who litigate the settlements.

Apple is top of the list for being the worst anti-consumer company in the world, and has been for the better part of 20 years. Not to say they weren't bad before that, they went downhill back in 1984 with the release of the Macintosh. Jobs didn't want to have anything or anyone messing with his precious, and did his worst to make it happen. His legacy has lived on to the detriment of everyone.

SmartSelect_20210610-084629_Chrome.jpg
 

DukenukemX

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Nobody is believing that. You need a neural engine for blur backgrounds? Text to speech in Swedish? Does the Swedish language need a special neural engine? 3D Globe of the Earth? Most of the new features is something you'd use the GPU for. Apple is clearly trying to distinguish their M1 over Intel by not writing code. It not only saves Apple money by not needing to support their older Intel Macs but they encourage people to buy their newer M1 based products. Does the M1 really need help in sales for Apple to do this?
 

Aurelius

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None of those features require M1 silicon, Apple is just forcing obsolescence like they always do, it's nothing new. Apple hates you using their old stuff and will punish you for doing so, if you're not a good little iZombie and buy their new machines every couple of years, they punish you by dropping features or artificially slowing your iDevice down to try and get you to upgrade. There have been multiple class action lawsuits about this over the years, and Apple basically always loses and has to pay out millions. Of course Apple users only see pennies on the dollar of this money, the lions share goes to the lawyers who litigate the settlements.

Apple is top of the list for being the worst anti-consumer company in the world, and has been for the better part of 20 years. Not to say they weren't bad before that, they went downhill back in 1984 with the release of the Macintosh. Jobs didn't want to have anything or anyone messing with his precious, and did his worst to make it happen. His legacy has lived on to the detriment of everyone.
The '00s called, they want their childish Apple stereotypes back.

The only people I've seen who upgrade Macs every couple of years are enthusiasts who'd do that no matter how well their old systems were running. Hell, I'm only replacing my eight-year-old MacBook Pro this year because it won't get major OS updates, and I want to remain current beyond security updates (which I'd still get). It'd still work well enough if I didn't want the latest software features.

As for the iPhone, the throttling was to extend the life of phones with worn-down batteries. Apple's problem was not disclosing this or giving users an option to take the risk of sudden shutdowns. Again, many people hold on to their phones for a while. My folks held on to their iPhone 6 devices for several years, and I'm still on an iPhone XS.

I'd say anti-consumer is things like forcing bloatware and insecure utilities on Windows PC users (hi, Lenovo)... or an Android update system where three years of OS updates is considered generous, and the frequency/duration of OS updates is often tied to how much you spent on your phone. My folks had the latest software on their iPhone 6 units right up until they upgraded; how about your Android phone?
 

auntjemima

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The '00s called, they want their childish Apple stereotypes back.

The only people I've seen who upgrade Macs every couple of years are enthusiasts who'd do that no matter how well their old systems were running. Hell, I'm only replacing my eight-year-old MacBook Pro this year because it won't get major OS updates, and I want to remain current beyond security updates (which I'd still get). It'd still work well enough if I didn't want the latest software features.

As for the iPhone, the throttling was to extend the life of phones with worn-down batteries. Apple's problem was not disclosing this or giving users an option to take the risk of sudden shutdowns. Again, many people hold on to their phones for a while. My folks held on to their iPhone 6 devices for several years, and I'm still on an iPhone XS.

I'd say anti-consumer is things like forcing bloatware and insecure utilities on Windows PC users (hi, Lenovo)... or an Android update system where three years of OS updates is considered generous, and the frequency/duration of OS updates is often tied to how much you spent on your phone. My folks had the latest software on their iPhone 6 units right up until they upgraded; how about your Android phone?
Yeah, Android updates are bullshit lol

I don't believe the whole iOS battery explanation at all. They slowed down phones on purpose so users wouldn't need to spend any more money on their company? Come on. Both scenarios caused the same thing. Slow phone, new phone. Dying battery, New phone.

Big difference being is I can choose to take out 2 screws (at the time) and remove a $12 battery and replace it.
 

Aurelius

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Yeah, Android updates are bullshit lol

I don't believe the whole iOS battery explanation at all. They slowed down phones on purpose so users wouldn't need to spend any more money on their company? Come on. Both scenarios caused the same thing. Slow phone, new phone. Dying battery, New phone.

Big difference being is I can choose to take out 2 screws (at the time) and remove a $12 battery and replace it.
The technical explanations hold up. A worn-down battery is less likely to meet the power requirements of the processor, and while that kind of shortfall isn't likely, if it happens... oops, your phone shuts down. Happens regardless of platform.

Besides, the Snidely Whiplash-style villain theory is at odds with what Apple does elsewhere, like supporting phones with major OS updates for around five years and even optimizing new iOS releases with older phones in mind (and yes, it started before throttling kicked in). It'd be a bit odd to pour all that effort into lengthy software support if you were just going to force users to upgrade early by throttling their devices.
 

1_rick

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Does the M1 really need help in sales for Apple to do this?
Obviously not--as someone else said, this is to convince users to switch.

The claim that these features, including, mind you, "More detailed maps in cities like San Francisco", is an obvious, flat-out lie.

Worse than that, it's insulting, because they think people will believe it.
 

alxlwson

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Perhaps. But also perhaps they programmed the new features to work with the new capabilities in the chip?
 

1_rick

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Perhaps. But also perhaps they programmed the new features to work with the new capabilities in the chip?
Well, true. And honestly, if they don't want to do the work of writing the code once for M1 and once for x86, I actually understand that. But then, they make up an obvious lie instead of just saying something that some people will be annoyed about, namely "we don't to do the work twice."
 

DukenukemX

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The '00s called, they want their childish Apple stereotypes back.
2021 is here to let you know that Apple hasn't stopped being easy to make fun of.
As for the iPhone, the throttling was to extend the life of phones with worn-down batteries. Apple's problem was not disclosing this or giving users an option to take the risk of sudden shutdowns. Again, many people hold on to their phones for a while. My folks held on to their iPhone 6 devices for several years, and I'm still on an iPhone XS.
You know what else extends the life of a phones battery? Making it easy to remove the battery. Stop making excuses for this terrible company.
I'd say anti-consumer is things like forcing bloatware and insecure utilities on Windows PC users (hi, Lenovo)... or an Android update system where three years of OS updates is considered generous, and the frequency/duration of OS updates is often tied to how much you spent on your phone. My folks had the latest software on their iPhone 6 units right up until they upgraded; how about your Android phone?
Including bloatware on a Windows PC isn't anti-consumer, it's just a dick move and one that can be easily fixed by uninstalling that bloatware. Lack of Android updates isn't anti-consumer as it's also a dick move, but not being able to install custom roms is anti-consumer. You're confusing anti-consumer to just dick move tactics that companies perform. It's only anti-consumer when you don't have an alternative choice in the situation. You didn't have a choice when Apple throttled your iPhone to hide failing batteries. You don't have a choice when it comes to Apple not including Mac OS Monterey features. These are anti-consumer because Apple is giving you no choice but to upgrade and buy new hardware. If the solution is for you to buy more things then that's anti-consumer and also not good for the environment.

Yeah, Android updates are bullshit lol
They totally are, but that's a subject for another thread.
I don't believe the whole iOS battery explanation at all. They slowed down phones on purpose so users wouldn't need to spend any more money on their company? Come on. Both scenarios caused the same thing. Slow phone, new phone. Dying battery, New phone.
The truth is that phones push batteries to their limit in order to get the charge people desire. Fully charging a battery and fully discharging it isn't healthy for the battery. This is why Tesla's can still use the same battery for over 10 years while Apple's iPhones can barely last a few years before needing their batteries replaced. Yes your iPhone can last all day on a full charge but that charge is wearing out the battery much faster. Instead of charging the battery to 80% and then shutting off the device at 20%, the iPhones will pretty much use the entire charge capacity of the battery. Not only does Apple look good because their devices can last longer than the competition but when the battery begins to fail and devices slow down then you're forced to go out to buy another Apple device.
Obviously not--as someone else said, this is to convince users to switch.

The claim that these features, including, mind you, "More detailed maps in cities like San Francisco", is an obvious, flat-out lie.

Worse than that, it's insulting, because they think people will believe it.
Apple stores have a "genius bar" in them. How many smart people need to be told there's a genius working in a computer store? This is why Apple gets away with so much because a lot of the Apple users are idiots who think they're geniuses. These people are so stupid that they think they're smart. You own a very expensive laptop that is no longer getting the support you overpaid for in your product, and you're defending Apple who is screwing you over. How many Windows 10 laptops are no longer getting new features released by Microsoft? You don't see Microsoft preventing languages and 3D model Earths because you need a Qualcomm based device. Keep in mind we know Microsoft are a bunch of assholes, but what does that make Apple when I use Microsoft as the superior moral compass? Microsoft is #16 on the shit list while Apple is #6. There's a reason for that.
 

Aurelius

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Well, true. And honestly, if they don't want to do the work of writing the code once for M1 and once for x86, I actually understand that. But then, they make up an obvious lie instead of just saying something that some people will be annoyed about, namely "we don't to do the work twice."
I don't know if that's really a lie; I don't recall any breathless prose about how these were only possible with the sheer power of the M1 chip. The M1 requirement seems to be a matter-of-fact statement, unless I'm missing something.
 

Aurelius

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You know what else extends the life of a phones battery? Making it easy to remove the battery. Stop making excuses for this terrible company.
Do you promise to boycott all phones with non-removable batteries, without exception, for the rest of your life? If not... well, this argument doesn't hold any weight.

I'm not making excuses. I'm explaining what they actually did, and that the crappy thing was the lack of disclosure and choice, not the throttling itself. Now, I'm sure you'll insist Apple is lying, but on what evidence? You're the sort who'd firebomb Apple Park if he thought he could get away with it, so your word doesn't exactly carry a lot of weight here.


Including bloatware on a Windows PC isn't anti-consumer, it's just a dick move and one that can be easily fixed by uninstalling that bloatware. Lack of Android updates isn't anti-consumer as it's also a dick move, but not being able to install custom roms is anti-consumer. You're confusing anti-consumer to just dick move tactics that companies perform. It's only anti-consumer when you don't have an alternative choice in the situation. You didn't have a choice when Apple throttled your iPhone to hide failing batteries. You don't have a choice when it comes to Apple not including Mac OS Monterey features. These are anti-consumer because Apple is giving you no choice but to upgrade and buy new hardware. If the solution is for you to buy more things then that's anti-consumer and also not good for the environment.
No, those are both explicitly anti-consumer moves.

When they install bloatware, they're declaring that their desire to make money is more important than your user experience. When Android vendors purposefully limit or cut off OS updates, that's an attempt to push premature phone upgrades that could genuinely hurt people by limiting their access to useful features or even exposing them to security issues. I'm not saying that Apple is some selfless "everything is for the fans" company, far from it, but its approach to software support is definitely better on these fronts.
 

cybereality

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I mean, Google does the same thing. Android 12 is only coming to some phones, and even Google's own Pixel phones from just like a generation back aren't getting all the features. Still a dick move.
 

Nobu

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Eh, they couldn't be arsed to write the same code for two platforms. You don't get the features you want? Boohoo...at least you are still getting other features and updates.

My moto g6 is still on Android 9. Not that I mind, but just for perspective. Hasn't received an OS update in over a year, last security update was last year iirc.
 

Lakados

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The technical explanations hold up. A worn-down battery is less likely to meet the power requirements of the processor, and while that kind of shortfall isn't likely, if it happens... oops, your phone shuts down. Happens regardless of platform.

Besides, the Snidely Whiplash-style villain theory is at odds with what Apple does elsewhere, like supporting phones with major OS updates for around five years and even optimizing new iOS releases with older phones in mind (and yes, it started before throttling kicked in). It'd be a bit odd to pour all that effort into lengthy software support if you were just going to force users to upgrade early by throttling their devices.
We turned off the battery throttling for my wife’s phone. It would randomly shut down when she loaded some apps regardless of how much of a charge it had. Replaced the battery and it fixed that but did a shit job on reassembly, looked like they snapped off a small metal ground on the touch screen in the process so the touch never worked right after. Ended up replacing it. Funniest part was I didn’t want to fix it because with my old busted hands I doubted my ability to reassemble it correctly.
 

Lakados

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I mean, Google does the same thing. Android 12 is only coming to some phones, and even Google's own Pixel phones from just like a generation back aren't getting all the features. Still a dick move.
I don’t like Android 12 so far, no particular reason, it just doesn’t do it for me.
 

GiGaBiTe

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The '00s called, they want their childish Apple stereotypes back.

Toxic Apple fanboyism is another problem with their cult.

Aurelius said:
I'd say anti-consumer is things like forcing bloatware and insecure utilities on Windows PC users (hi, Lenovo)... or an Android update system where three years of OS updates is considered generous, and the frequency/duration of OS updates is often tied to how much you spent on your phone. My folks had the latest software on their iPhone 6 units right up until they upgraded; how about your Android phone?

Is that honestly all you can come up with? That's benign nonsense that has nothing to do with anti-consumer behavior. Apple is also guilty of pre-installed bloatware, they did it for years in the PowerPC era with software bundles and demos. They would also release dozens of different model numbers of the same machine so different retailers could claim they had an exclusive deal on that specific machine.

Apple makes the things you listed benign in comparison. Let's start with their war against repairing your devices. Apple sues independent repair shops so they can't repair Apple devices, claiming IP theft and pedaling counterfeit goods, despite many of the parts being refurbished original Apple OEM parts. They also use ICE and other customs agencies around the world to intercept and destroy refurbished parts going to said repair shops, claiming that they're counterfeit, even though they are OEM apple parts in many cases. They spend millions of dollars on government lobbying around the world using patently false and plain idiotic statements to block any legislation that even hints at making it easier for the public to repair their own devices.

Getting parts to even repair your Apple products is like pulling teeth because Apple doesn't want you to have them. They forbid their recycling partners from selling used parts on the second hand market, and have actively sued some of them for doing so. Louis Rossmann from Rossmann Repair Group in NY has to basically dumpster dive for parts in China on sketchy Chinese marketplace sites. On newer models, that's often not even possible anymore BECAUSE APPLE IS SERIALIZING PARTS.


That's right, you cannot buy two new of the same model iPhone 12 and swap any parts between them, or the serialized parts will trigger hidden landmines in IOS. This is becoming more and more common on their products as time goes on, and there's absolutely no reason for it. Oh, and they also tell manufacturers like Intersil to not sell you specific parts, they're only allowed to sell to Apple.


Apple strong arms Amazon to ban 3rd party recyclers and refurbishers from selling on the platform unless they meet insane product quotas:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/21/...iphones-mac-third-party-sellers-john-bumstead
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladi...n-in-germany-for-curbing-independent-sellers/

Apple sues 3rd party repair companies because they use "counterfeit" parts (which are actually genuine apple parts that are refurbished):
https://www.vice.com/en/article/9kx...hone-repair-shop-louis-rossmann-henrik-huseby

Apple uses ICE to seize parts and raid businesses:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...nd-security-participates-trademark-raid.shtml

Apple sues recycler for not "correctly" recycling parts (ie. they wanted devices crushed and thrown in a landfill instead, not reused.):
https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/apple-accuses-recycling-partner-of-reselling-more-than-100000-devices/
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/apple-lawsuit-selling-devices-recycle

Apple doesn't want people saying you can repair your own devices and will ban and censor you on their forum for even mentioning it:
https://brian.carnell.com/articles/...ers-about-data-recovery-from-damaged-iphones/

Do I need to continue? I stand by my statement that Apple is one of the most anti-consumer companies in the world, and the evidence speaks for itself.
 

GiGaBiTe

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Nobody believes that nonsense. You don't need a special "neural" engine to display a 3D globe of the world. We were doing that back in the DOS era. Text to speech in other languages? Wow, Apple was doing that 25-30 years ago on their 68k based Macs, and they're saying an Intel CPU with 1000 times the power can't perform the same function. The rest of those functions can be done on PCs with a fraction of the computational power. Just another one of Apple's lies.
 

1_rick

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We turned off the battery throttling for my wife’s phone. It would randomly shut down when she loaded some apps regardless of how much of a charge it had.
I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 that would do something like this; after a few years it'd just shut off at 25-30% battery. Someone told me that what's going on is the battery can only hold about 70% charge, but the device can't report it correctly for whatever reason. Stuff like this is why I don't fault Apple for battery throttling like they did, although--as usually--they handled it in the most ham-handed way possible.
 

GiGaBiTe

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I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 that would do something like this; after a few years it'd just shut off at 25-30% battery. Someone told me that what's going on is the battery can only hold about 70% charge, but the device can't report it correctly for whatever reason. Stuff like this is why I don't fault Apple for battery throttling like they did, although--as usually--they handled it in the most ham-handed way possible.

The most common failure of old battery packs is that the cells get so imbalanced that the battery protection circuitry can't cope anymore and it just refuses to charge. When making a lithium battery pack, it's very important to use quality cells that are as closely matched as possible, because if you don't, some cells will drain before others and reduce the capacity of the pack. As batteries age, the individual cell capacities change and will naturally start to get imbalanced with other cells in the pack. This can eventually lead to one or more cells dropping to zero long before other cells. In this case, the other cells will star to push current backwards through the drained cells and reverse charge them, destroying them. At this point, the battery protection board will detect something is wrong and either refuse to charge, or charge to a much lower level. The bad cells can also short internally and start pulling current out of the pack as a whole, further reducing the pack capacity and making it so it never holds a charge.

If you crack open old "dead" laptop or multi-cell phone batteries, you'll usually just find one or two dead cells out of 4, 6, 9 batteries that takes out the whole pack. They're a great source of basically free working batteries that have a good bit of life left in them. Just be sure not to puncture the batteries when disassembling the pack unless you don't mind some excitement with fire and explosions.
 

DukenukemX

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Do you promise to boycott all phones with non-removable batteries, without exception, for the rest of your life? If not... well, this argument doesn't hold any weight.
If I could I would boycott all phones without a physical qwerty keyboard, but I can't. Phones with removable batteries are old and don't support new features. If you do find one then it's like some off brand Chinese phone that would be better used to start a fire in the woods.
I'm not making excuses. I'm explaining what they actually did, and that the crappy thing was the lack of disclosure and choice, not the throttling itself.
You honestly believe that?
Now, I'm sure you'll insist Apple is lying, but on what evidence?
In that it favors Apple financially? Let me know when Apple didn't disclose something that they lost money on. Most people who didn't know what was going on would just buy a new phone because the old one was getting slow.
You're the sort who'd firebomb Apple Park if he thought he could get away with it, so your word doesn't exactly carry a lot of weight here.
You're putting not only words into my mouth but actions that I didn't do. Then accepting it as truth and running with it.
When they install bloatware, they're declaring that their desire to make money is more important than your user experience. When Android vendors purposefully limit or cut off OS updates, that's an attempt to push premature phone upgrades that could genuinely hurt people by limiting their access to useful features or even exposing them to security issues. I'm not saying that Apple is some selfless "everything is for the fans" company, far from it, but its approach to software support is definitely better on these fronts.
Firstly, it isn't anti-consumer. It sucks but you can get around it easily. Apple isn't alone in their fuckery but that doesn't excuse them of theirs. Their software support is only better when they don't fuck around like they did with Mac OSX on older Intel machines. Android is screwed up but I can for most devices still replace it and upgrade the OS so long as I'm allowed to. It's open source so nobody can have an undisclosed "feature" without people finding out.
 

ChadD

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I wonder how Google Earth's managed to have an interactive 3D globe of the earth without a "neural engine" for all these years.
I don't blame Apple on this one or any of this really.

The entire point of them making their own silicon was so they could 100% integrate and optimize top to bottom. It doesn't make a ton of sense to continue to optimize for Intel.
If we are going to use google as an example I have no doubt that if everyone had a Neural engine like co processor that was capable of writing data directly to CPU L3 cache space... they would use it. :)
Coding two code paths for a bunch of AI stuff probably sucks. Although ya something as seemingly as simple as a 3d globe... that doesn't seem like it would have been a ton of work. lol
 

Red Falcon

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The technical explanations hold up. A worn-down battery is less likely to meet the power requirements of the processor, and while that kind of shortfall isn't likely, if it happens... oops, your phone shuts down. Happens regardless of platform.
They didn't inform users of it, nor give an opt-out option, and this was not a security risk mandating a necessity to do so without first informing their customers and user-base.
That is extremely anti-consumer and Corporatist behavior on their part - which is why they were sued, lost, and then rectified the issue, which is exactly what they should have done in the first place.

On the technical side, if it did hold up, they should have been up front with the information, which they were not, and forcibly slowed down everyone's iDevices, which was much more of a ploy for forced obsolescence than it was for saving users' batteries.
Losing the lawsuit was worth it to them, considering the cost of losing was chump change, because it allowed them to test the waters of how far they could push their Corporatist bullshit.
Besides, the Snidely Whiplash-style villain theory is at odds with what Apple does elsewhere, like supporting phones with major OS updates for around five years and even optimizing new iOS releases with older phones in mind (and yes, it started before throttling kicked in). It'd be a bit odd to pour all that effort into lengthy software support if you were just going to force users to upgrade early by throttling their devices.
Not hardly, there is still money to be made from an older device user-base, as they discovered.
The only technical reasoning I will give them in recent years is for iDevices with less than 2GB RAM no longer supporting iOS/iPadOS 14 due to newer features and back-end functions which do legitimately require more than a device with only 1.5GB RAM; it wasn't due to the CPU being inferior, so this is a rare instance of a recent technical decision getting a pass.

What Apple did with forced CPU-throttling was Corporatist bullshit, and no one stood for it, nor should they have.
Anyone supporting a megacorp's agenda is part of the problem.


Do you promise to boycott all phones with non-removable batteries, without exception, for the rest of your life? If not... well, this argument doesn't hold any weight.
Just because iDevices and mobile devices without removable batteries are the only option available doesn't stop making it anti-consumer.
I'm not making excuses. I'm explaining what they actually did, and that the crappy thing was the lack of disclosure and choice, not the throttling itself. Now, I'm sure you'll insist Apple is lying, but on what evidence?
Your posts above kind of show that you are making excuses for them, claiming it was for "technical reasons", which it was not, as I explained above.
Virtue signaling isn't a virtue. ;)
You're the sort who'd firebomb Apple Park if he thought he could get away with it, so your word doesn't exactly carry a lot of weight here.
Insults aren't needed, though this is the dark cyberpunk future, so... :borg:🔥
Also, DukenukemX's word does indeed carry weight, as everything which was stated was grounded in fact and reality.
No, those are both explicitly anti-consumer moves.

When they install bloatware, they're declaring that their desire to make money is more important than your user experience. When Android vendors purposefully limit or cut off OS updates, that's an attempt to push premature phone upgrades that could genuinely hurt people by limiting their access to useful features or even exposing them to security issues. I'm not saying that Apple is some selfless "everything is for the fans" company, far from it, but its approach to software support is definitely better on these fronts.
I will agree with you that Apple does have better software and OS longevity and support than Android, but that doesn't make their Corporatist tactics at forced obsolescence any better.
 
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Red Falcon

[H]F Junkie
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
11,226
Apple makes the things you listed benign in comparison. Let's start with their war against repairing your devices. Apple sues independent repair shops so they can't repair Apple devices, claiming IP theft and pedaling counterfeit goods, despite many of the parts being refurbished original Apple OEM parts. They also use ICE and other customs agencies around the world to intercept and destroy refurbished parts going to said repair shops, claiming that they're counterfeit, even though they are OEM apple parts in many cases. They spend millions of dollars on government lobbying around the world using patently false and plain idiotic statements to block any legislation that even hints at making it easier for the public to repair their own devices.
Yes, because Apple is not Capitalistic, but is indeed Corporatistic.
Read the fifth line down on the Corporatism side - hits a little close to home to what you just said. :whistle:

DpP_T6kWwAcVySx.jpg
 

D-EJ915

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 31, 2003
Messages
1,466
Text to speech in Swedish? Does the Swedish language need a special neural engine?
That is pretty funny to me lol, these languages are not that complicated lol. It seems like they just hate nordics/scandinavians or that's just an example of some.

That being said I am not surprised, Apple drops support for older products faster than nearly anyone. Until they have x86 virtual machines working on apple silicon though I'm not going to be interested.
 

GiGaBiTe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,852
I don't blame Apple on this one or any of this really.

The entire point of them making their own silicon was so they could 100% integrate and optimize top to bottom. It doesn't make a ton of sense to continue to optimize for Intel.
If we are going to use google as an example I have no doubt that if everyone had a Neural engine like co processor that was capable of writing data directly to CPU L3 cache space... they would use it. :)
Coding two code paths for a bunch of AI stuff probably sucks. Although ya something as seemingly as simple as a 3d globe... that doesn't seem like it would have been a ton of work. lol

Apple is entirely to blame by forcing obsolescence via spite and creating artificial market segmentation.

They don't *need* to optimize anything, they just need to stop being slimy and two faced, but that'll never happen. When they introduced the M1 processor, they also introduced Rosetta 2 and had a whole dog and pony show to tell everyone how easy it is to cross compile applications and have the same functionality on both architectures. Then they do an about face with all of these new features with the lie that their buzzword "neural" engine is required.

Their "Neural" engine is probably just some GPGPU or customized ARM core with specific extensions to enhance whatever code they want to run. They pulled this same stunt back in the G3 to G4 transition with their "velocity engine", which just turned out to be vector extensions similar to SSE and had little performance implications outside highly specific workloads, which is not a thing here. We won't really know for a few years what it exactly is because they like keeping things a secret.

Until they have x86 virtual machines working on apple silicon though I'm not going to be interested.

That'll never happen, it's going to always be emulation. QEMU can be used to run x86/x86_64 on Apple's M1, but it's no speed demon.


I've not tried this specific setup myself, but I have used QEMU to emulate PowerPC and it was pretty slow. I'd expect similar performance with the M1 doing x86/x86_64.
 

Krazy925

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
6,242
Who fucking cares about a globe lol

I’m sure you can download the exact thing from someone else if it’s that big of a deal.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
3,399
In that it favors Apple financially? Let me know when Apple didn't disclose something that they lost money on. Most people who didn't know what was going on would just buy a new phone because the old one was getting slow.
But it doesn't favor Apple financially. Even at the time throttling started, Apple was offering around five years of OS updates and optimizing for older phones. That's a whole lot of money down the drain if it was all part of a sinister plot to force upgrades. And you do realize that pissing people off with slow performance generally doesn't lead to repeat buyers?

You're putting not only words into my mouth but actions that I didn't do. Then accepting it as truth and running with it.
Nah, it's just a logical extension of your mindset. You're the one who thinks Windows gaming PCs are the center of the universe; everything you say and do signals that you want a total Windows monopoly in PCs, and a total Android monopoly in phones. Don't actually feel that way? Then deal with Apple using some nuance and accept that it does some things well, even if it's not really your cup of tea.

Firstly, it isn't anti-consumer. It sucks but you can get around it easily. Apple isn't alone in their fuckery but that doesn't excuse them of theirs. Their software support is only better when they don't fuck around like they did with Mac OSX on older Intel machines. Android is screwed up but I can for most devices still replace it and upgrade the OS so long as I'm allowed to. It's open source so nobody can have an undisclosed "feature" without people finding out.

Well, Apple hasn't screwed with software support for a long time (not even this recent "these features require an M1 chip" thing), so...

I don't consider community firmware a fix for poor OS update policies. That's like saying a car maker's terrible warranty is okay because the parts are cheap. Normal, everyday people not only don't know how to install the likes of LineageOS, they shouldn't have to. And even then, if a phone vendor is purposefully cutting OS updates short to drive upgrades or 'punish' people for not buying a more expensive model... yeah, that's still anti-consumer.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
3,399
They didn't inform users of it, nor give an opt-out option, and this was not a security risk mandating a necessity to do so without first informing their customers and user-base.
That is extremely anti-consumer and Corporatist behavior on their part - which is why they were sued, lost, and then rectified the issue, which is exactly what they should have done in the first place.

On the technical side, if it did hold up, they should have been up front with the information, which they were not, and forcibly slowed down everyone's iDevices, which was much more of a ploy for forced obsolescence than it was for saving users' batteries.
Losing the lawsuit was worth it to them, considering the cost of losing was chump change, because it allowed them to test the waters of how far they could push their Corporatist bullshit.
My argument was that Apple still screwed up, but that it was a lack of transparency and choice that was the issue, not the throttling itself.

Again, it'd be odd for Apple to pour tons of money and energy into long-term software support if it's just going to force early upgrades through throttling. Seems like Apple would just want to drop OS updates after a couple of years if it really wanted to force premature upgrades, wouldn't it? Make the throttling a "parting gift."

Besides, there was just an example earlier in the thread of someone whose phone really was shutting down as the battery wore out.

Just because iDevices and mobile devices without removable batteries are the only option available doesn't stop making it anti-consumer.
Didn't say it was a pro-consumer move, just that it's a bit rich to say I'm making "excuses" for Apple when it's an industry-wide practice that many Anything But Apple types are willing to tolerate for rival products. Apple may have made it trendy to go with non-removable batteries, but no one put a gun to Samsung's head (or anyone else's, for that matter).

Your posts above kind of show that you are making excuses for them, claiming it was for "technical reasons", which it was not, as I explained above.
Virtue signaling isn't a virtue. ;)
Merely declaring that it was a sinister plot doesn't make it so. You have to show that it was malicious, and so far the evidence doesn't support that. We know that phones can spontaneously shut down when their batteries are heavily worn; we know Apple provides much longer OS support than would be necessary for such a scheme; we know that Apple touts satisfaction ratings, and pissing off customers by arbitrarily slowing things down wouldn't help that.

As it stands, you know full well that one of Apple's vices (and sometimes virtues, but I digress) is its "we know what's best for you" mindset; it's never been a particularly big fan of throwing in software choices. It makes more sense that Apple simply thought it was doing people a favor and didn't stop to think that users might want to risk shutdowns to maintain full performance.
 
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