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server chips, that much better?

Vaulter98c

Vaulter98c

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2009
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May 21, 2008
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ya, thats the question
would a quad core amd/intel chip put out more PPD running a pair of VM's than say a Q66? Ive been considering the best way to spend 150 or so bucks, and watching a few server chips go on ebay has me wondering
 
typically whatever is the fastest speed wise will be the best ppdp$ and also server chips typically require better mobo's and expensive ram so add that into the equation.
 
but how about the ppd? should I just stick to normal stuffs like Q66 and Q82?
 
As far as computational capability, the server chips from AMD and Intel are exactly like their desktop counterparts.
 
shit, k, thanks, I'll keep my eyes out for a cheap quad then
 
84gthatch said:
i'd go with an I7:D 4 VM's per chip
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The chip is a quad core with an instance of HT for each core. Thus, you can reserve 2 for the host OS, and then max out the others giving yourself 6 instances. Of if you are really hard core, you'll go with dual Nehalem derrived Xeon's for a total of 8 physical and 8 virtual CPUs for a total of 16 threads. :D
 
woah, even if I dont follow it, I still have a budget lol
problem is I can get an i7 up and running for less than 150, but I can snag a Quad and put it in my rig now to replace a P4
 
Vaulter98c said:
woah, even if I dont follow it, I still have a budget lol
problem is I can get an i7 up and running for less than 150, but I can snag a Quad and put it in my rig now to replace a P4
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That is the whole crux of the matter - overall cost. You'll never approach the PPD per dollar of a good desktop system with server equipment unless you really find a good deal. Another problem with server systems is the lack of 16X physical PCI-E slots compared to desktop motherboards, although that is slowly improving with each generation.

Having folded on sever/workstation systems since 2001, I can say with years of experience they are not good folding platforms. The only reason I build them is for space savings (PPD per sq. footage), which is where they excelled in - until recently. With the release of GPU2, now a decent relatively inexpensive desktop motherboard with 4-6 PCI-E slots and filled with fast GPUs will out-compete the production of a dual Xeon/Opteron system with only 2-3 cards, assuming you can even install that many.

If you're being inspired by the monstrous performance of the 3 mega-folders, that's great, but bear in mind they are accomplishing their historic feats on someone else's hardware.
 
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One of my goals is one day to be able to build a dedicated server room for my business:) that will allow me to become one of the top folders inthe world building boxes similar to atlasfolders setup. because he's got about 1/4-1/3 of there production in one rack. If everything was built right at the beginning you could run over 1 million ppd with 4 racks in the corner of your office building!:D
 
no, it was more of browsing threw the multiproc section on H while remembering that SMP is how the mega-folders are going, I was wondering if thats because SMP is superior to GPU on server stuff or just because its what they had and they have so much

now I know

actually, here is my inspiration
http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/individual_list.php?s=&srt=1&p=1
right now, I've got just enough to be top 500 , I'd like to hit top 200 once I move out to my new place
that and I just got a new 40 U rack and only have things for like 4U's planned so far, so I was gonna put my server in there (got 2 cases I'll use for computers right now) and I would have one more case open, so I was just curious as to my options

no, I know I dont have the money to go big, but I want to do the best any little guy can, so I just want to learn as much as possible and try to get 25-35k PPD if I can

plus I may be able to get some 2U servers in the next few months, free of charge, if I can play my cards right
 
84gthatch said:
One of my goals is one day to be able to build a dedicated server room for my business:) that will allow me to become one of the top folders inthe world building boxes similar to atlasfolders setup. because he's got about 1/4-1/3 of there production in one rack.
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AtlasFolder is an immense inspiration. I cannot overstate how much I respect his efforts. He has also inspired others by his story. However, his high production is GPU derived, not SMP...

This brings me to an important point absolutely nobody mentioned on any thread or any forum that I am aware of. The mega-folders have partly the A2 SMP core to thank for the super high production they have achieved. Up until very recently, most of the SMP WUs were A1 core-based. The A1 core WUs are worth far less in point value. I jumped 10,000 average PPD by virtue of Stanford's switch in SMP unit type - that's 20% of my current total just from the changeover! Now, when and if Stanford decides to move back to a more balanced or predominantly A1 WU regime, watch those mega-folders get whittled down to size since their production is entirely SMP derived... ;)

Vaulter98c said:
no, it was more of browsing threw the multiproc section on H while remembering that SMP is how the mega-folders are going, I was wondering if thats because SMP is superior to GPU on server stuff or just because its what they had and they have so much
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Far be it from me to tell people what to do with their dime, just letting you know what you are in store for in regards to employing this kind of hardware strictly for folding. If building servers is your bag and you are committed or you also intend to use it for other applications, that's a completely different story and would certainly be a great project. The advantage with server equipment is the general level of quality does tend to be somewhat higher, because it's designed for long-term heavy use in mind. My experience in server reliability has been rather mixed, though. :-/

Aside from the cost and odd motherboard layouts, the main negative with server hardware is the dearth in OC options. Directly related to that is the highly limited aftermarket HSF options. It is very difficult if not impossible to OC servers because of these limitations. These systems are used by enterprises and enthusiasts' needs are usually contrary to the needs of the typical server client (reliability). I do have my systems OC, but I chose specific components that allow for limited amounts of OC, just enough to make it worthwhile to fold on.

If you have inquiries, feel free to post them. I, Dan or Tigerbiten can answer all your MPS questions. There are other knowledgeable members on this forum as well, but TMK, they don't fold. Best of luck, we need all the extra help to get this team back to speed. :eek: :) :cool:
 
The lack of overclock options that make running a server syle mobo bad for folding.
Get a Q6600 from 2.4 to over 3 Ghz and you get over 25% more folding power for little extra cost.
To get the same raw folding power from a server means buying the top of the range CPU's which are expensive.
If your looking at 771 Xeon's then you'll probably need FB ram which is expensive and runs very hot.
Normally due to the second CPU, fitting full lenght video cards is tricky. You tend to have to use only the last PCI-E slot and hope it fits.

An other downside is the PpDpWatt figure is not as good form a pure SMP folder as it is for a pure GPU folder.
But the 511 pointers are back in the wild so your GPU PpD is going to drop.

But saying all that I do like my Skulltrails based main box.
2x E5450's @ 3.41 Ghz, 8 Gigs of ram and 3x 9800GTX+ vid cards.

Luck ........... :D
 
lol yes.. lets recommend a friggin i7 to some one who said he had 150 dollars to spend.. great reading there ya brilliant ones.. seriously get some common sense instead of going on your little i7 tirades about how its so great.. blah blah blah.. though gpu folding in my opinion is far more efficient then running a bunch of 200W systems when you could run a 150w gpu and do the 1.5x -2x more PPD then say a 125w+system load smp client rig..
 
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O believe me, I looked into i7 first LOL, even if you're on a diet you can stil read the menu right?

Again, I've got a case on a rack to burn, that's why I mention, just wanted to get some input (y'all are way more on the bal than my last team)
On a side note, just passed 900,000 total and 500,000 for [H] today
 
84gthatch said:
wow i was joking with him man i didn't mean to step on a nerve.
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wasnt refering to you.. sorry :p


yeah i know what you mean vaulter.. maybe im just on the forum to much or something.. but its starting to get old with all the i7 preaching in every bloody thread when some one asks about buying a new cpu even if the person has an insanely low budget and couldnt afford it anyways..
 
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I have a Xeon X3350 (Basically a Q9950) and it runs great.

I have noticed it runs slightly cooler but that is a little subjective.

Tiger is right that it is hard to OC a server, but I have given up trying to OC my CPU's.

Even thought I lose some PPD, that system is very stable, and current uptime is 212 days so far, with no EUE on any unit. (Also happens to be my network's file server)

Most users will be better off with the Standard Desktop CPUs.

If you have a rack mount system or space is at a premium, then Dual Xeon setups are the way to go, but there is a price difference for that setup, and it will get almost the same PPD as 2 x Desktop systems would.

I am waiting for Core i5 (and my house) to be ready. Hopefully, we will get some micro ATX board under $100.00.
 
EvilAlchemist said:
I have a Xeon X3350 (Basically a Q9950) and it runs great.

I have noticed it runs slightly cooler but that is a little subjective.

Tiger is right that it is hard to OC a server, but I have given up trying to OC my CPU's.

Even thought I lose some PPD, that system is very stable, and current uptime is 212 days so far, with no EUE on any unit. (Also happens to be my network's file server)

Most users will be better off with the Standard Desktop CPUs.

If you have a rack mount system or space is at a premium, then Dual Xeon setups are the way to go, but there is a price difference for that setup, and it will get almost the same PPD as 2 x Desktop systems would.

I am waiting for Core i5 (and my house) to be ready. Hopefully, we will get some micro ATX board under $100.00.
Click to expand...

None of the CPUs will run at exactly the same temperatures given the variable conditions. However, the server chips are often said to run slightly cooler but not by more than a degree or two.
 
Dan_D said:
None of the CPUs will run at exactly the same temperatures given the variable conditions. However, the server chips are often said to run slightly cooler but not by more than a degree or two.
Click to expand...

Server chips are usually clocked lower as well, so that has a lil to do with the temps.
For instance take Intel quadcore chips, the desktop counterparts are usually clocked almost 1ghz higher.
 
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