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Server Cabinets 101?

I think he is in the US, so customers won't matter.

Shipping isn't too bad, just be mindful of any specials they have going on.

The keystone face plates that Monoprice sells suck. You can't use their own CAT5 keystone jacks side by side in them, unless they have fixed this in the last year. Since i ran into this problem when I wired my house I just made a quick trip to Home Depot and picked up some Leviton face plates.

Just about everything else that Monoprice sells is good quality and defiantly good enough for a home environment.
 
klank said:
I think he is in the US, so customers won't matter.

Shipping isn't too bad, just be mindful of any specials they have going on.

The keystone face plates that Monoprice sells suck. You can't use their own CAT5 keystone jacks side by side in them, unless they have fixed this in the last year. Since i ran into this problem when I wired my house I just made a quick trip to Home Depot and picked up some Leviton face plates.

Just about everything else that Monoprice sells is good quality and defiantly good enough for a home environment.
Click to expand...

The ones I used were fine so they must have fixed that issue.
 
What model number keystones and wall plates did you all use? I did some research and some others have had this problem. It seems as if it might be because they are using decorative wall plates or something along the lines of that.
 
So here are some up close shots of where the cabinet is to go and the wiring is to be terminated. I remember reading that I should try to have about six inches of clearance between the ethernet and AC wires. Where would the best place to terminate it and run it through to the next room?
100_0898_zpse6310618.jpg

This is in the top right of the above image.
000_0001_zps5601b944.jpg

Other side of the wall.
000_0002_zps924e9d77.jpg
 
Run the ethernet below the joists and not through, that way it will give you some distance. May not be 6 inches but should be fine. I also don't like making holes in the joists if I don't have to. You can also try to run perpendicular as much as you can, that helps too. Though, TBH due to being twisted pair chances are you can get away running alongside, I just don't like to do it for any permanent installation as if I'm troubleshooting a network issue I rather know that my runs are all done well.
 
For open ceiling, like that, i use these they are called J hook's. You just put the wire in it, and ever second or third one, you zip tie to the hook or use tape or velcro.

j-hookslarge.gif
 
Red Squirrel said:
Run the ethernet below the joists and not through, that way it will give you some distance. May not be 6 inches but should be fine. I also don't like making holes in the joists if I don't have to. You can also try to run perpendicular as much as you can, that helps too. Though, TBH due to being twisted pair chances are you can get away running alongside, I just don't like to do it for any permanent installation as if I'm troubleshooting a network issue I rather know that my runs are all done well.
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That's a good suggestion, but not a good idea if he plans on finishing the place in the future.
You will probably have to re-locate all cables if you plan on putting drywall in the future...
 
In a basement it's best to go with drop ceiling or something where you can access the above. What if a pipe leaks, or new runs need to be added, etc... seen it too many times where work needs to be done and it can't be accessed without doing lot of damage and a mess.
 
That area will be finished off and the ceilings are only 7'4" From that group of white AC runs is to the wall is 15 inches... Would that be fine?

EDIT:

I may run some conduit along perpendicular to those AC wires then have it go through a couple joists to the next room. I don't want to put too many holes in the joists because as you can tell there are already quite a few... How large of a hole can we put in the joist? I figure we would have to have a couple of smaller conduit runs rather than one large one? Also does conduit have good shielding properties just out of curiosity?

EDIT 2: Rather than have up to four cat6 drops at one location would it be better to have one with a four port switch or something along the lines of that? How many cat6 drops at one location would be enough to warrant the use of a switch? I'm thinking I may be able to save costs one wire by not buying 1000ft and cutting down the total amount of wire purchased.
 
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There are formulas for hole size on dimensional lumber joits. You have what is called engineered lumber joists; you'll need to read the manufacturer's recommendations. For dimensional lumber, it is also against code to drill a hole in the middle 1/3 of a span.
Don't mess with conduit unless there is a very good reason. EMT is more about physical protection of the wiring and fire containment than shielding. Distance is a better 'shield' from AC interference than just about any other solution.

Run 4 drops- switches deployed as you suggest just add complexity to troubleshooting and lower performance. There is no technical reason why it wouldn't work- in fact, it will definitely work- it's just not recommended. Any decent GbE switch would cost more than the extra runs anyways- you shouldn't be spending anywhere near $50 per drop in supplies.
 
Looks like hanging some PVC conduit underneath the joists and putting up a suspended ceiling is the way we're gonna go.
 
I think suspended ceiling is optimal if you have the clearance- I think code requires 7' floor to ceiling clearance. Suspended ceiling allows easy and non-destructive access to plumbing, electrical, network, etc. Usually cuts down more noise too.
 
We have enough clearance for a suspended ceiling. I'm not sure how to run some conduit, take a look at this for ideas. I'm not fond of this because it seems like far too many branches off... If you'd like to make suggestions here are the image files [Link]
scenario1_zps2a2c78c1.jpg
 
I wouldn't use conduit- there's no need for it. If conduit = network cable bundle, then whatever makes sense to you is fine. Every cable should homerun to your cabinet. If you are planning on 4 network ports/location, buying at least 2 pull boxes of cable and ideally 4 boxes- it would make the job much easier.
In your situation, I would use saddle rings or J-hooks. If you want to go real cheap, buy a roll of Velcro (Hook one side, loop on other), cut 1 foot or so segments, staple one end to a joist. Run your cable and hold it up ny wrapping celcro around bundle and sticking to form a hanger. You'll also probably want to use velcro to bundle the cable every couple of feet as well.
 
NismoTuned said:
My intention with the conduit is for easy upgrades if I need them.
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you might regret that.. the hangers i posted are easy to LAY cable into. Pushing pulling cable into a conduit that has cable in it, isn't as easy as you think..
 
Keep in mind most of the ceiling is going to be closed... so I can't just Lay cable into the hangers...
 
itsparks said:
you might regret that.. the hangers i posted are easy to LAY cable into. Pushing pulling cable into a conduit that has cable in it, isn't as easy as you think..
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+1 to this, even for straight runs of conduit it can be pretty tricky pulling cable once you have several cables already in place. If you have any bends in the conduit, particularly 90 degree bends, forget about it.

Run more cable then you could ever imagine needing and then close it up and hope for the best. Hint, conduit takes up space that you could use to run a few more pulls of cable. You have limited space to pull cable so keep that in mind. I actually regret not pulling a few strands of fiber from my basement to attic runs, but oh well.
 
NismoTuned said:
Sorry If it was poorly explained. The main room we're remodeling will have fixed ceiling, and the hallway the server cabinet will be in will have the suspended ceiling.
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With the engineered joists, I'm not sure you can drill holes in them. What you will problably want to do is run 1/2" tubing minimum (you can squeeze 4, maybe 6 cables in there), I would suggest 3/4" or larger, especially if you plan upgrades in the future. You might want to look at ENT (PVC conduit) and compare pricing.
NEC allows no more than 360 degrees of bend before a pulling box is required. I'm not sure it strictly applies to Low Valtage wiring (Network cable is LV) but it is a good practical pulling limit. More bends make it harder to pull cable, and each bend will bury new cable in existing cable, making it even tougher.
If possible, I would make a straight run from above the suspended ceiling to the desired drop, with a single 90 bend dropping to the outlet. Fasten the ENT or smurf tubing (the flexible 'smurf' tubing is not conduit, it is flexible raceway) to the bottom of joists. Remember it is against code and seriously degrades structural integrity when ANY holes are drilled in the middle 1/3 of a joist span. I'm not sure you can drill holes in engineered joists at all.
For the Drywalled ceiling in the basement, you'll need to install spacers (1x2 or 2x2, depending on clearance needed), then mount drywall to the spacers.
 
Okay so what I'm understanding is:
a) Minimize bends (which I figured)
b) Try to keep it as straight as possible
c) Run as much as I think I'm going to need and more

Honestly I don't think I'm going to need to upgrade many of these runs very much anyways, so should I just run a few extra drops and use hangers like itsparks had suggested. I'm going to have to either notch the top part of the door framing and put it through there, or go through the joists elsewhere.

I think I'm going to mention putting a suspended ceiling in the closets as well... I'm going to try to have my mind made up and order my supplies tonight.
 
Unless you know you'll need more, I think 4 drops per location is good. More than 4 makes for a busy faceplate and box. I use angled wall plates which only come in 4 max.- more than 4 means double gang box.
I think you've got the right idea.
 
Is there any benefit to the angled wall plates? Also should I be getting a keystone patch panel or just a regular patch panel?
 
Use a keystone patch if you will be terminating multiple connector types (e.g. RJ-45, F-Type (CATV), RCA, Component, HDMI, etc). Use a regular patch panel to save money if you will be terminating only RJ-45.
I've noticed less stress on cables using angled wall plates, but I can't say I've seen a straight connection fail. I think the angled plates look more professional, provide room for labeling, and are a comfortable cable density for most applications. It comes down to personal preference, IMO.
 
Someone mentioned heat displacement, but make sure your cabinet is not backed right up to the wall (as it seems in the drawing). Especially if the sides do not have air flow.

How prone is this basement to moisture / flooding? You may want to run a dehumidifier.

 
Yeah be sure there is good air flow on the front and back. Make sure that air can also eventually make it back to the front. Ex: if you wall it in or something, ensure that you are not creating two separate air tight spaces that can't access each other.
 
I just found on the monoprice website that some faceplates do indeed have clearance issues. I need to get lots of stuff into one (or two faceplates)

3 or 4x ethernet (6 total drops in the wall)
1x HDMI from the computer
1x Coax.
4x pairs of binding posts I'm open for most suggestions.

Everything going up to the TV will be put through something like this: Monoprice PID6625
 
I've actually read that as long as you have good cable, AC lines wont bother your signal.
 
Skillz said:
I've actually read that as long as you have good cable, AC lines wont bother your signal.
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AC will bother the signal, but separation is the best cure. Alot depends on the current flowing through the AC, length which cables run alongside, and separation. The main issue is inductance. Inductance falls off drastically with just a little separation.
I always thought best practice was to separate by a foot, it may very well be 6". The universe will not end and you may not have any issues if you run a network cable along a household AC conductor, but if you were having wonky issues, it's the first thing I would fix.
 
RocketTech said:
AC will bother the signal, but separation is the best cure. Alot depends on the current flowing through the AC, length which cables run alongside, and separation. The main issue is inductance. Inductance falls off drastically with just a little separation.
I always thought best practice was to separate by a foot, it may very well be 6". The universe will not end and you may not have any issues if you run a network cable along a household AC conductor, but if you were having wonky issues, it's the first thing I would fix.
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I've done a lot of reading on that and there are so many mixed views on whether or not AC power lines will interfere with network cables in close proximity and the vast majority claim no issues at all; as long as it's the right network cables that shield such interferences. ;)
 
For home networking, separation of AC and Network cable is not a practical issue- the lengths, duty cycle and current are not enough to overcome the inherent separation (jacket thickness) in a home situation. I've never actually wrapped network cable around a compressor motor or furnace, but I doubt you would have any issues if you otherwise adhered to standards. Just a note, you cannot run Low Voltage (network) and High Voltage (Home wiring) in the same raceway or occupy the same box. This is a safety issue (reach in expecting LV and get your arm numbed) and not an interference issue.

I cannot think of a situation where I would recommend STP or FTP (Foil Shield) in a home setting- even with HAM radio active nearby. STP and FTP are are your main tools for dealing with interference if physical separation is not possible/practical. A shield is not inherrently a brick wall to interference- it is more like an antenna that collects interference, and the shield drain path (if any) determines if it is an effective shield or a noise inductor.

You are right in using the right cable for an application has alot to do with interference rejection. Simple UTP deals with unidirectional interference inherently- signal travels down balanced lines with the signal 180 degrees from the other line. Any noise hitting one line is completely out of phase on the other, cancellining the noise out. If you have noise coming in from many or all directions, and physical separation is not practical, STP can help, if the shield is drained properly. Proper noise management with STP requires an end-to-end architecting- if noise enters from one end of the cable or the other (nodes) it will be faithfully transmitted down the cable and to the switch. STP is not a magic cure-all.

Optical Fiber is the only transmission media immune to RF interference and is the best choice for problematic situations. Optical Fiber would have no issues running Parallel to (or coiled around) a 40KV+ distribution line for miles. You could not say the same for copper cable- even shielded cable would have a huge inductance on the shield causing alot of noise.

If you don't believe me on the noise issues, just tell yourself it is for safety. You don't want to accidentally pierce an AC line with a bridle ring, J-Hook, ladder rack screw, etc. Plus it keeps grubby electricians ( :p ) away from your pretty data cabling.
 
Yeah I wouldn't recommend running 100% of the cable parallel to an AC line, but running it parallel for even most of it's path shouldn't be an issue.
 
Are there any more recommendations for cabinets? The one from craigslist was sold by the time he got back to me.
 
NismoTuned said:
Are there any more recommendations for cabinets? The one from craigslist was sold by the time he got back to me.
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I've been hunting for a good 42u server cabinet for a year or so now. Sadly I don't live in a big city where companies are regularly tossing them out and getting one shipped to me is almost as much as buying a brand new one when I search eBay.

I really wish they had cheap cabinets for home users. I mean really, that metal used in those things can't cost as much as they are asking, nor does the labor it takes to make them. If only I had the required tools. :(
 
Yeah I have noticed that. I'm only looking for something like 18u that can be either wall mounted OR free standing.
 
Best bet is see if you can find a 4 post rack as it will come in a flat box and you assemble it yourself. You can always enclose it later (what I plan on doing with mine). I paid a few hundred bucks for mine. Though this year I managed to score an enclosed rack from work, so now I have two lol. It's beige though, I wish it was black, but it was free so I can't complain. :p I might actually paint it at some point. Not really a big deal.
 
What about this rack? It does seem very shallow though. link
 
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