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Server build ECC x4 vs x8?

D

dminja

n00b
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
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SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIL-F-O
Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered 1333
Intel Core i3-530 Clarkdale 2.93GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F4 HD204UI 2TB 5400 RPM X 3

This is the build and it's already in the mail. I've been reading the 1156 processors will not work with x4 (as in 512K bit x4 memory chips) DIMM's, only x8? I didn't know the i3 even supported ECC? I only went with the ECC DIMMs because they were suggested and not much more than the desktop DIMMS.

I'm just worried some as I've seen some threads that concluded the ram caused the ZFS corruption.
 
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If I remember correct, which I might not, Intel has ECC reserved for server CPUs only :mad:
AMDs stand on this is more consumer friendly :p
 
Intel desktop chips don't support or utilize ECC; only Xeons do. ECC RAM might still work but you can't benefit from ECC with an i3 installed.
 
dminja, you shouldn't have to be so scared about RAM corruption with ZFS.

The threads you have seen (on FreeBSD forum perhaps?) may be due to really faulty RAM that would fail in memtest86+ test cycle. That is RAM you should replace and is covered under warranty. Normally, your RAM should be very stable. But then there's still a tiny chance that once upon a time there's a bit flip or other corruption. ECC fixes those (not only detect but FIXES); thus it can be crucial for servers which handle sensitive information which cannot be permitted this small chance of corruption; a lot of companies include these and thus they favor ECC everywhere.

But for a home situation and ZFS, you could make due without ECC i think. Even if memory corruption occurs, ZFS can fix it. But if that memory corruption is so severe (bad RAM module) that the number of errors grow so huge, then even ZFS can't correct it. But that's only good; because if you reboot with stable RAM again ZFS likely can still find a good copy.

So what you should do is TEST YOUR MEMORY before ever using it to store data. The Ubuntu Linux livecd and many other livecd's include MemTest86+; leave it running for 24 hours at least. If no red bars show up your RAM appears stable.

Then watch the zpool status output regularly, if you see corruption occur; do another memory test. With the tiny fraction of memory errors that occurs from non-ECC RAM over long period should in no way threaten ZFS's ability to correct these, given a redundant pool.

I would instead advise more RAM instead; like 2x4GiB or 4x2GiB; the first has my preference but especially for DDR3 this appears to be expensive. A simple AMD+DDR2 ECC build would also be possible and likely even cheaper. It's up to you, but i think you don't have to be afraid. I've had bad RAM in my test ZFS fileserver and it kept corrupting files but ZFS fixed them. Then after i replaced the memory it found more errors and fixed them. So the memory errors that non-ECC RAM may produce while being NOT defective, is really small and no problem for ZFS. Another thing is the applications that run on the same machine; but they usually don't use up alot of memory; ZFS does and it has plenty of protections in place.
 
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well let me clarify my questions.

1. is the x4 or x8 ecc timing requirement determined only by the processor type and not the motherboard

2. in my case where my processor doesnt support ecc does it matter if my ecc is x4 or does my motherboard require x8
 
yes sub that is exactly the thread i recalled when i read about this x4 and x8 ecc ram timing that ive never heard of. granted im new to ecc but was worried i purchsed the wrong ram for the motherboard.

regardless ill run memtest86 as soon as things are assembled.
 
The reason the motherboard has ECC-support is because of the xeon-support.
Not sure if the ECC-ram will work with the i3, guess it depends on how supermicro designed their bios...
 
The unbuffered ECC ram should work OK with the i3. Electrically, it is just the same a regular desktop ram with extra bits. You won't get ECC functionality - the i3 will just ignore the extra bits - but it should work.

You'd have trouble with registered ECC DIMMs unless you had the Xeon CPU, but from the OPs parts list he didn't buy registered ECC, so he should be OK.
 
ECC will work with that board and Core i3 chips. It has to be unregistered. Registered memory will only work with Xeon chips. Also get dual rank (single rank will work too, but they're more expensive) sticks with x8 chips as x4 won't work.
 
Blue Fox said:
Also get dual rank (single rank will work too, but they're more expensive) sticks with x8 chips as x4 won't work.
Click to expand...
i guess were now getting to the reason i made this thread. can you explain this more. i think i bought x4 see the link in my first post.
 
The X8SIL-F board uses the Intel 3420 chipset, which is generally used with Xeon processors. But Supermicro's page says the Core i3 is supported.

http://www.supermicro.com/xeon_3400/Motherboard/X8SIL.cfm?IPMI=Y

I spent some time browsing Intel's web site but I could not find any clear information on using a Core i3 with the 3420 chipset. I did find a reference to the 3450 chipset supporting ECC with the Core i3, but that is not directly relevant here.

On the supermicro page referenced above, under memory capacity, you can click on a link for more information about 3400/3420 chipset memory support. Unfortunately, it only discusses Xeon processors. If you did have a Xeon processor, then according to that chart, you must use ECC DIMMs with x8 chips, either registered or unbuffered.

But what about Core i3 processors? I cannot find any specific information.

All I can say is that if you had a Xeon processor, I think the memory you ordered would be fine:

ValueRAM's KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G is a kit of two 256M x 72-bit 2GB (2048MB) DDR3-1333 CL9 SDRAM
(Synchronous DRAM) ECC memory modules, based on eighteen 128M x 8-bit DDR3-1333 FBGA components
Click to expand...

It uses 128M x8 chips, so you are good with the x8. Unbuffered memory is always single- or dual-rank, so you are good there, but you can double check the rank: an ECC rank is 72 bits wide, so 18 chips x 8 bits = 144 bits, which is twice 72 bits, so dual-rank.

I'm guessing that since that memory would be supported with a Xeon processor, and Supermicro states that the X8SIL board works with a Core i3 as well, then that memory will probably work for you. But I'm not certain by any means. You could contact Supermicro support and ask them. Or just try it when the parts arrive. Please let us know what you find out.

If it were me, I would return the Core i3 and get a Xeon X3440 processor, so that I would be in better documented territory, and to utilize the ECC of the memory. But that is a more expensive processor.
 
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I wish we could give rep on these boards because there were a lot of helpful answers.

Ya I tried the calculation and did 128M X 18 chips = 2304 and was instantly confused as I expected it to come out to 2048. Thanks for breaking it down for me as I was confused by the documentation.

This server project is already over budget so I'm going to stick with the i3 and possibly upgrade to a Xeon in the future when the price drops or my server expands.

Thanks for everyone's help.
 
dminja said:
Ya I tried the calculation and did 128M X 18 chips = 2304 and was instantly confused as I expected it to come out to 2048.
Click to expand...

That is because two of the chips are used for ECC. Only 16 of them are used for data. 128 MB x 16 = 2048 MB.
 
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