SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project

SaperPL

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I'm assuming due to the height of the rear i/o the 120 fan will be that close to the grill it will make a racket.
I wouldn't be that sure about this. With C7 you have no way of air escaping the route where on one side it has an inlet mesh and on the other it has radiator with regular surface.

When you put 120mm there, then with those IO connectors underneath there's still a lot of area around the socket that air can escape so you're not forcing the air against the IO connectors.

Also the difference is in RPMs of the fan - 120mm fan will be something like 1300RPM while 92mm fans may spike up to 2700 RPM for example. The 120mm fan with half the speed of 92's will not be starved and at the same time it will use it's bigger area to pull the same amount of air.
 

SaperPL

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Considering the fact that most of you are preparing to do some shopping for your future builds in Sentry, I'll spread out some interesting rumours about the upcoming AMD Ryzen CPUs.


Those look kind of interesting considering the TDP of 65W.

These are of course rumours and not necessarily real leaks (may not be true), but the numbers kind of add up to some very early info abut ZEN from like two years ago when AMD talked about $450 8C/16T CPU that was supposed to be on par with intel extreme platform.

Anyway, even if that is true, wait for the reviews of the platform, especially the X300 chipset based mITX boards, before jumping on the bandwagon of ZEN.

And even if you're allergic to AMD, keep in mind that if that's really how this platform will look, we may see finally proper price drops from intel, however time will show how fast they could happen.
 

zerodeefex

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The Reeven BRONTES(RC-100b) is 47mm tall without a fan. Is this going to be pushing against the top of the case or is there true clearance for something Iike this running passively?
 

SaperPL

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The Reeven BRONTES(RC-100b) is 47mm tall without a fan. Is this going to be pushing against the top of the case or is there true clearance for something Iike this running passively?
We've got ~48mm but that ~ we have +- something like 0.12mm possible error and thus we cannot state that we support 48mm coolers. We also want that ~1mm of clearance so the cover doesn't touch the fan.

It should fit but do not do this. There is no real passive cooling in standard PC cases, if you have a "passively cooled card" then you need induced airflow by the fans of the case. It may only work okay if you plan on making HTPC with some ultra low TDP CPU.
 

darkd

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Hi everyone,
I'm considering buying 7700k for Sentry under assumption that if It becomes too hot, it will underclock itself down to TPD level that the cooling could sustain.
Am I right in assuming that 7700k can be effectively turned to 3.8Ghz 7700t with 35W consumption using underclocking or all those actually different chips and 7700k isn't efficient at lower clocks?

NB: I'm perfectly comfortable with re-lidding both cpus.
 
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zerodeefex

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We've got ~48mm but that ~ we have +- something like 0.12mm possible error and thus we cannot state that we support 48mm coolers. We also want that ~1mm of clearance so the cover doesn't touch the fan.

It should fit but do not do this. There is no real passive cooling in standard PC cases, if you have a "passively cooled card" then you need induced airflow by the fans of the case. It may only work okay if you plan on making HTPC with some ultra low TDP CPU.
This is for a dedicated audio application. This is more than enough cooling for the underclocked undervolted i3 6100. Total power consumption measured in at around 40 watts for the entire system under full load (IBT and furmark running simultaneously). You do not need fans in my experience in this kind of scenario even in cramped cases.
 

klatox

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I'm not sure if you read Edz post #2307 but I think it would very helpful for the community if you can test the lp53 with the 14mm noctua fan you already own inside the case. I'm sure I speak for a lot of Sentry owners in the community when I say that the lp53 will probably be in high demand for the Sentry case.

Also if you don't mind a little extra. If you have a 120mm fan lying around can you give us some insight into whether a 120mmX15mm slim fan will fit into the case on top of a 28mm heatsink (the lp53) with a regular motherboard? (Specially whether it will interfere with the SSD on top of the motherboard or the typical 34mm tall ram)
How are you planning to mount the fan?
 

Ej24

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How are you planning to mount the fan?
Rubber bands, zip ties, string. Anything will do. It's a pc fan, not a jet engine. It probably weighs 50g. Mounting a different fan to the LP53 is tricky in that it doesn't have normal fan mounting holes or a groove for clips. However, my 92x14mm fan has been mounted for 1-2 weeks just fine with rubber bands. I may go with something a little more permanent/hardy once it's in Sentry but for now it's fine. So mounting a different fan isn't difficult, you just have to be creative.
 

Rysen

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How are you planning to mount the fan?
I'm going to use the copper wire (the same you would use for ornaments and necklaces). Amazon has them for like 5$ and it matches the color of the heatsink. Also it is more solid than rubber bands or zip ties which will decay overtime with the heat.

But like Ej24 said you can use whatever you want.
 

Shadyace25

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Rubber bands, zip ties, string. Anything will do. It's a pc fan, not a jet engine. It probably weighs 50g. Mounting a different fan to the LP53 is tricky in that it doesn't have normal fan mounting holes or a groove for clips. However, my 92x14mm fan has been mounted for 1-2 weeks just fine with rubber bands. I may go with something a little more permanent/hardy once it's in Sentry but for now it's fine. So mounting a different fan isn't difficult, you just have to be creative.
Where can you even buy the LP53? I found one on amazon for like $85, but I don't really think it's worth it at that price.
 

Ej24

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Not to mention you have to wait for it to arrive from Korea. It's a true test of how badly you want that extra cooling performance.
It will definitely get you 5C better than the noctua on an unlocked cpu. I'm tempted to delid my 4790k and use liquid metal. Temps should plummet another 10-15c. They're not bad now with the LP53, I'm just obsessed with having the lowest temps possible in the smallest form factor possible.
 
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Morzy

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So.. I just built my pre-sentry PC atwo days ago and.. I struck with the Intel cooler to start with and with a i5-7600 It's really.. Not bad at all. I'm using the Air 240 as a temp case(it's my brothers for his future build).

The Intel cooler gets loud.. But currently with 60F-70F ambient the CPU doesn't get above 30C-40C on idle and 40C-60C while my brother was playing Civ VI(this is running without a GPU card. We have pretty low standards tbh, hah)

SO my question is, is another cooler worth it? I know the C7 would be quieter, which I wouldn't mind, but obviously there is a lot of controversy surrounding that little guy.

Heat isn't my issue, it's sound. I don't expect the 65w tdp to throttle at 95C, but I expect this little intel cooler to get loud in the summer.
 

Ej24

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So.. I just built my pre-sentry PC atwo days ago and.. I struck with the Intel cooler to start with and with a i5-7600 It's really.. Not bad at all. I'm using the Air 240 as a temp case(it's my brothers for his future build).

The Intel cooler gets loud.. But currently with 60F-70F ambient the CPU doesn't get above 30C-40C on idle and 40C-60C while my brother was playing Civ VI(this is running without a GPU card. We have pretty low standards tbh, hah)

SO my question is, is another cooler worth it? I know the C7 would be quieter, which I wouldn't mind, but obviously there is a lot of controversy surrounding that little guy.

Heat isn't my issue, it's sound. I don't expect the 65w tdp to throttle at 95C, but I expect this little intel cooler to get loud in the summer.

Just get the noctua nh-l9i and be done with it. It's shorter than the Intel stock cooler allowing an additional drive above the cooler in sentry (depending on motherboard layout) and its significantly quiter. It performs a few degrees better, but overall you'll enjoy how quiet it is. Also it's much much easier to mount than the Intel stock cooler with push pins. I always think I'm going to break something trying to pull an Intel cooler off.
 

octagoncow

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It will definitely get you 5C better than the noctua on an unlocked cpu. I'm tempted to delid my 4790k and use liquid metal. Temps should plummet another 10-15c. They're not bad now with the LP53, I'm just obsessed with having the lowest temps possible in the smallest form factor possible.
Ditto; I will pretty much attempt just about anything for maximizing silence and lower temps without giving up performance. I delidded my 6700k a few days after getting it and I dropped 8c at load. I was sweating bullets the first time powering on though. Delidding is absolutely worth it if you have the guts to risk ruining your CPU.
 

Morzy

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it's exciting!! This is a big landmark for SFF cases, I think. :D (in terms of volume, not to forget the Dan Case)
 

Rysen

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only few hours left.... :D
Quick question will 42mm memory fit? Or will it be blocked by the ssd bay? Is there any way we can make it fit without having to remove the SSD or change anything else?


EDIT: Never mind ,up to 34mm it says it on the website.
 
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Morzy

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Is it possible to do something like this in order to fit higher size memory:

I would imagine you lose stability? I recall the 2.5" brackets being screwed in somewhere between the GPU and mobo.
 

Rysen

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I would imagine you lose stability? I recall the 2.5" brackets being screwed in somewhere between the GPU and mobo.
Yes, but that is irrelevant given that is an SSD. SSD do not need stability. My concern is wether if this is possible (if it will fit like this) and if I do this will 42mm memory fit.
 

ZombiPL

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Is it possible to do something like this in order to fit higher size memory:

You could try to take off the hdd bracked, and screw your SSD with only 2 screws. You will also need to make 2 new mounting holes for this drive, to install it closer to the back wall. It should be doable but only as DIY.
 

Veritas187

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I was wondering what you guys thought of the CPU cooler. ID-cooling vs 40 it's only 45mm in height which is ~3mm from the case top. I believe Saper stated that the cryorig was a bad cooler for the sentry not only because of the mounting mechanism with back plate but do to the ~1mm from the top of case was indeed very loud. I'm wondering would the 3mm from the top make that big of a difference in noise? And the possibility with this cooler perhaps being better than the noctua l9i in its performance.
 

RosaJ

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I was wondering what you guys thought of the CPU cooler. ID-cooling vs 40 it's only 45mm in height which is ~3mm from the case top. I believe Saper stated that the cryorig was a bad cooler for the sentry not only because of the mounting mechanism with back plate but do to the ~1mm from the top of case was indeed very loud. I'm wondering would the 3mm from the top make that big of a difference in noise? And the possibility with this cooler perhaps being better than the noctua l9i in its performance.
I've seen mention of that cooler as well and am curious, myself.
It's been mentioned a lot. It's a bad cooler, on par or worse than the Intel stock cooler. Links below:

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7432/id-cooling-vc45-sff-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html
https://play3r.net/reviews/cooling/id-cooling-40-60-cpu-cooler-reviews/7/
 
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Rysen

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It's over guys. Congratulations on getting the case 1139% funded. I hope that what's left of the process goes smoothly and people can get their case on the estimated times. Good luck in the rest of the process and thanks for making this case possible.
 

SaperPL

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Finally! I will be able to get some proper sleep now :D
I hope that what's left of the process goes smoothly and people can get their case on the estimated times. Good luck in the rest of the process and thanks for making this case possible.
I've actually been waking up the chain of supply for components starting last week since we already had some rough numbers on the volume. So far it's going as planned.
 

SaperPL

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Just a reminder: we'll be using twitter as medium for smaller updates after the campaign.

 
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Veritas187

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D

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Why do you bother so much with untested coolers? Just stick with what works and change when something finally is proven to be better.

It boggles my mind that every time a random company shows a new mITX design you keep your hopes up then get squashed because it is terrible.

Stick with what is proven to work.

Just a reminder: we'll be using twitter as medium for smaller updates after the campaign.

Congrats.

You deserve it.

PS: my forecast was right :)
 

Veritas187

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Why do you bother so much with untested coolers? Just stick with what works and change when something finally is proven to be better.

It boggles my mind that every time a random company shows a new mITX design you keep your hopes up then get squashed because it is terrible.

Stick with what is proven to work.



Congrats.

You deserve it.

PS: my forecast was right :)
I'm looking for various options if you don't have any review you can point to online to defend your position saying it's terrible or otherwise it doesn't help me so please don't bother to respond.
 

SaperPL

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While I understand all of you looking for a better cooling solution, I think that you should wait a bit because there's still few things that you should consider:

1) Wait until we get the Zalman CNPS2X back from RMA or we get another cooler for test as replacement.
CNPS2X look like it might be quite interesting choice because:
- it is quite old construction that was made in times when 95W was quite standard TDP
- it was picked by valve for steam machine for some reason
- it is supposed to handle TDP up to 120W by spec
- in idle it was slightly cooler than both noctua and intel box, but we don't know what was the real RPM at that test since PWM was broken and showing full RPM at all times, but it definitely wasn't running full speed

2) Zen may bring i7-7700K-competitive 45~65W TDP CPU that could be significantly cheaper. Also since AMD's boxed coolers were junk for recent generations, and since they seem to want the zen to be the new beginning in some way, and they invested some of their time into wraith cooler which was made for already launched generation, we can speculate they are going to update the boxed cooler designs with something that is not a junk anymore. Will it be on par with intel's box in small form factor? We'll have to wait and see.

3) We've got in touch with Cryorig and it looks like they want to solve the problems we have in Sentry with C7 that will most likely occur in A4-SFX and mini STX cases as well. We're giving them all the feedback and data we can gather on where the problem may be. They seem like good guys in their approach to fixing and updating the compatibility since they've already stated they'll release AM4 brackets to current owners and they want to find solution for us. We might expect similar handling (releasing some kind of fix package to C7) if the fixed C7 was to dethrone the NH-L9i for 95W SKUs running in Sentry and most of you would want to buy it. We'll see how their R&D team will resolve those issues.

4) I want to try out 120 and maybe 140mm slim fans fitting on top of C7. It is perfect here since the radiator is just above the DIMM height with enough clearance for slim fans to fit. I've got a 120mm running below the GPU and while it's still loud in full speed, in reasonable 1080p gaming it isn't making too much noise.
 
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Rysen

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I'm looking for various options if you don't have any review you can point to online to defend your position saying it's terrible or otherwise it doesn't help me so please don't bother to respond.
There is already different reviews that specifically test the Noctua vs the ID-COOLING 45. Here is one in russian.

EXAMPLE

Summary translated for you: "To sum up, that the effectiveness of Noctua NH-L9x65 won a landslide victory over the ID-COOLING IS-40, and turn to the noise level."
 
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zerodeefex

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There is already different reviews that specifically test the Noctua vs the ID-COOLING 45. Here is one in russian.

EXAMPLE

Summary translated for you: "To sum up, that the effectiveness of Noctua NH-L9x65 won a landslide victory over the ID-COOLING IS-40, and turn to the noise level."
That's the taller version of the Noctua NH-L9i. It wouldn't fit in the Sentry even without a fan.
 
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