SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project

SaperPL

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well i'd personally prefer the new render variant, it gives a ore slim like look i think. now if both sides would have the same number of rows in the same place mirrored, that may would also look awesome, in terms of symmetry.

It looks like the bottom will get one more row than originally but it doesn't mean they will have exactly the same amount of holes. top inlet needs to reach the center of the cover for the SFX-L to draw air unblocked. Meanwhile we can't go as far as middle on the bottom because of the location of central wall/gpu support. It will be closer but won't be symmetric.

and yes, sorry i was talking about the power button, i just noticed that internally theres some space next to the ports, which i thought was unused. im not sure how it would look, i guess it would form some kind of triangle with the usb ports:)

No problem, But I think that would look weird :)

i dont quite understand, do you have to externally order a plate which holds ports and i/o button ?

It's about the size of psu baffle type connector:



Essentially we've decided from the start that we'll use this type of connector since every connector of this type since the USB 1.1 era had the same reference size of ~60mm. It was optimal both for the looks and fitting of the size limited to 64mm - some additional structural elements.

The problem is that when you want to order something like this for a different purpose from china they tend to not get that you need exactly this size of mould etc.

So we did end up with finding offers visually matching the type we want but after contact they told us we'd get randomly the type they actually have or that they have this type but the dimensions is 68mm which looks like they copied badly the reference design or the moulds were refurbished which increased the size.

Also a lot of suppliers now sell this type:



While still using a stock photo of the type we want.
 
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Hi SaperPL,

Great case, I just registered to offer my support. I know the release date is TBD but do you think it's realistic to expect anything within Q1 2016?

Also I'm sure there is a legitimate reason but why not flip the GPU over so the intake vents are all on one side? Then the case can be laid flat or mounted on a surface.
 

ZombiPL

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I know the release date is TBD but do you think it's realistic to expect anything within Q1 2016?

We're trying to make it available in Q4 2015. If we'll solve some problems which we found in prototype 4, than this date is still possible.

Also I'm sure there is a legitimate reason but why not flip the GPU over so the intake vents are all on one side? Then the case can be laid flat or mounted on a surface.

It would make our case bigger (at this moment our case is smaller than A4 and S1) and probably it could become more expensive because of longer shielded riser. I think it (the case) also could loose the look that people like in our case.
 
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SaperPL

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Hi SaperPL,

Great case, I just registered to offer my support. I know the release date is TBD but do you think it's realistic to expect anything within Q1 2016?

We'd like to have this ready before Christmas this year and we're really close but there are those details we need to figure out to make the manufacturing possible. We're a lot closer than we were two months ago thanks to the great metal subcontractor we found.

Also I'm sure there is a legitimate reason but why not flip the GPU over so the intake vents are all on one side? Then the case can be laid flat or mounted on a surface.

There's few reasons - for once if you noticed that additional element keeping the gpu mounted it's our idea to maximaze the length of the card you can mount within such small space. wlile we're not supporting oversized PCB you still can fit gpu's such as tri-fan gigabyte windforce and such which are quite long.

If we made it the other way we would need to either make the attachable element a lot wider and manage it stiffness somehow or we would do the classic hole in a back wall but then you would be able to put the smaller card inside than the whole VGA bay length because of the VGA bracket size.

With the inverted layout we also had the problem with figuring out where to put the hard drives. It's just not that easy with such small space. We might do this layout in the future if m.2/msata will be the standard for all mainstream mITX boards. Right now people still want to use the 2.5" drives.
 
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Thank you both for the quick reply. I'm glad to hear you anticipate a Christmas release, I'll definitely keep an eye out for it.
 

SaperPL

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Another update: Results of testing weekend are here :D

HARDWARE

Test bench:

Pentium G3258
Intel BOX cooler 46mm
Gigabyte B85N Phoenix
8GB DDR3 1600Mhz in one stick
Chieftec SFX-500GD-C
2.5" WD Caviar Blue 1TB
4mm rubber feet in desktop/horizontal position

Test cards:

Palit GTX 970 4GB Blower Type (150W TDP)

649144_0_f.jpg


Gigabyte R9-270X Windforce 3X OC @ 150W (-20% Power)

normal_Gigabyte.Radeon.R9.270X.OC_06.jpg


METHODOLOGY

First thing to mention is that most of you would want to see really different temps on each gpu and case and it's not really going to happen because of how thermal throttling and gpu boost work. Essentially cards will go up to 80 degrees with boost going way more than declared boost frequency and when they hit the 80 degrees they throttle down to base clock to cool down and go up a bit and do that over and over. That's how it'll work if they won't hit the fps cap like v-sync.

Because of that I've decided to observe the clocks rather than simply log the temps. I burned the card up to stable 80 degrees (or other stable) and logged the average clocks and framerates in games and benches. This can tell us how the card will throttle down rather than how hot it will be.

Screen resolution 1920x1200@56Hz instead of 1080p60 - Basically I don't have 1080p screen because I still have my good old 16:10 screen that can be oversized if required. 1920x1200@56Hz is a really close workload to 1080p60 and I had to use such screen resolution to run benchmarks in 1080p

All games were running max possible settings.

Games were played in same locations instead of running scripted benchmarks but I picked a lot of them to average the results. I think that will do.

Games were played with Vsync except for Alien: Isolation which I decided to let run freely on max fps because all other games wouldn't exceed fps cap.

CS:GO was added with the cap as a different graphics quality title to check out temps on lower clocks. It was excluded from the average values in the summary.

RESULTS

Results - Desktop/Horizontal position

tQtb191.png


pvcVt9e.png


Results - Stand/Vertical position

DNSA9fn.png


iSixn2p.png
Summary in games. CS: GO excluded because of VSync cap.

mvKI4BD.png


CONCLUSIONS

Huge open air coolers will most likely work a lot better than blower coolers in vertical position.

Blower Coolers doesn't look to be starved for air in horizontal position.

There's not really a problem with card's temperatures since they're still running their nominal clocks when hitting the thermal barrier of 80 degrees.

ADDITIONAL NOTES

Chieftec SFX-500GD-C makes chirping sound initially but it goes away after some time. The grill's gold coloured plate makes it get out of the SFX standard dimensions. It had to be turned around to the inside to fit. The plate doesn't touch the fan this way so there's no worry.

45cm long modular cables can be fit inside the case but it requires proper approach. We'll tweak the design to ease that process.

Palit GTX 970 Blower's fan makes chirping sound all the time even when running at 20% of speed. I wouldn't advise picking such unit for a vertical stand on the desk.

10mm tall rubber feet will most likely be added as secondary or default stands for horizontal position to not starve the open air coolers.
 

iFreilicht

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Those are the results I would expect.
Is there an option to turn the case upside down in horizontal mode so the GPU has more air to breathe while the CPU gets less air? I feel like that would be the better way of doing things for a lot of people.
 

ZombiPL

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Is there an option to turn the case upside down in horizontal mode so the GPU has more air to breathe while the CPU gets less air? I feel like that would be the better way of doing things for a lot of people.

Funny thing... we're just testing it... right now :)

Probably it could solve some problems, but it also could make some more of them elsewhere. We're checking every possibility ;)
 

SaperPL

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Is there an option to turn the case upside down in horizontal mode so the GPU has more air to breathe while the CPU gets less air? I feel like that would be the better way of doing things for a lot of people.

I actually tested it right now since I was curious about it and I'm not so sure it's such a great idea since there's also a lot of downsides to it:

- open air gpu runs now 60 degrees which is 20 degrees less then in opposite and the same as in vertical position which is nice
- blower gpu runs exactly the same as in opposite position
- cpu cooler doesn't have strong directed airflow like the gpu
- cpu runs 10 degrees hotter now - up to 70 degrees in gaming and 50 degrees in idle.
- whole motherboard area is a lot hotter including PSU and chipset
- inverted fans make chirping sounds on low RPM - both intel stock cooler and windforce 3X
- we can't do anything about the hot surface above the motherboard area since it would end up limiting the cpu cooler height even more.
- if you rotate your stationary rig upside down after build then you have to make proper cable management so nothing goes into the cpu fan after turning the rig or over some time.
- you're showing directly the edge connecting the base surface with cover and it's generally weird.
- antenna mounts are under the motherboard IO this way.

It can be a quick mod for anyone who wants to do this himself anyway. Pick 8mm drill and make four holes in the cover for the rubber feet. There will be those white plugs included for vertical configuration so you'll be able to close the holes on the other side with them.
 

hat1324

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Hey Saper, what sort of schedule do you guys plan on releasing the case? Will it be in constant stock, or ship out at a schedule like the M1? Or will it be limited run like NFC's S3?
 

Aircoookie

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An idea would be using a flex riser and turning the GPU so the fans face upwards. However that would significantly increase the price...
 

ZombiPL

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Hey Saper, what sort of schedule do you guys plan on releasing the case? Will it be in constant stock, or ship out at a schedule like the M1? Or will it be limited run like NFC's S3?

We still don't have a final product, but the plan is to make an "order-counter" (maybe with nicknames list) on a future Sentry's website plus Paypal payment. Our suppliers allows a MOQ at a level of 100 pcs. We think, we'll be gathering orders and payments through a Paypal (the safest way for both sides atm), and than we'll be updating the counter. When it hits 100 orders, than we'll start a first batch. While we'll be producing Sentry for the clients from this 1st order, we'll be still collecting the orders (and updating a counter) for another group of customers. We tried to make a smaller batch, like 25-50 pcs, but it is very very hard to make our suppliers to agree even on those 100 pcs. Most of them didn't want to sell their parts in smaller MOQ than 1000 pcs.

We'll see how it goes, but that is our plan A at this moment. If someone has a better idea, please let us know.

Oh, I forgot. We won't be selling this case from stock, because (as we said many times before) we're not a "pc case company". My day-time-job is designing and programming wind turbines and Saper is creating computer games, so we're a simple forum users, who just wanted to make a small pc case (just like many of You). Pc cases isn't our standard job but some sort of hobby. Sentry is a product which will be selling "on demand". If we gather 100 people who will "pre-order" it, than they will get it. If we'll be having problems with gathering even those 100, than the project will probably die or the final price will rise... rise a lot.

i hope my explanation satisfies You.
 
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ZombiPL

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An idea would be using a flex riser and turning the GPU so the fans face upwards. However that would significantly increase the price...

We've made a project of redesigning the interior of our case, where the GPU fans would be turned in the same side as CPU fan, but then many additional problems showed up. Price is only one of them. For example, in our actual design, our pci-e riser will have 5-6 cm long, and we don't have to make it with shielding. it will also be expensive, but not as much as A4's or S1's. Dondan needs shielded riser from obvious reasons, but i'm not sure about Necere's design. Nevermind.
According to our benchmarks which we were making yesterday, CPU and GPU temperatures are on a good level, but we still want to improve it. Blower-style GPU's have almost the same temperatures in all of conditions we've tested. Now we're working with improving open-fan GPU ventilation. We could stay with what we have, but it's not enough for us. Our test showed that, our Sentry in vertical position has great heat dissipation capabilities. Now we're working with the horizontal position, and probably we'll stay with the actual order of internal elements. It's still a prototype, so everything can happen :)
 

SaperPL

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The problem with gpu rotated upside is also that in the end the case cover either is completely perforated or you get asymmetric air inlets for both case partitions. It simply doesn't look good.

By the way - it's not like someone stated that in this configuration you could simply lay it on the surface without distancing feet. There's still some heat radiating from back of the card and the motherboard so its always good to have a little bit of air under the case.

Getting back to manufacturing and selling plan - its just as Zombi said. The only option we see for making it an off-shelf order at this point would be if the first batch was huge burst like 2000 units and we could afford making a reserve batch for stock.

it's kind of possible thanks to the interest in this case of Linus from linustechtips who also told us he'll review us when we send him the case. linustechtips has almost 2 millions of subscribers so so grabbing 1/1000th of that might not be that hard. But for that, you see, we have to be ready.
 

iFreilicht

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The problem with gpu rotated upside is also that in the end the case cover either is completely perforated or you get asymmetric air inlets for both case partitions. It simply doesn't look good.

By the way - it's not like someone stated that in this configuration you could simply lay it on the surface without distancing feet. There's still some heat radiating from back of the card and the motherboard so its always good to have a little bit of air under the case.

Getting back to manufacturing and selling plan - its just as Zombi said. The only option we see for making it an off-shelf order at this point would be if the first batch was huge burst like 2000 units and we could afford making a reserve batch for stock.

it's kind of possible thanks to the interest in this case of Linus from linustechtips who also told us he'll review us when we send him the case. linustechtips has almost 2 millions of subscribers so so grabbing 1/1000th of that might not be that hard. But for that, you see, we have to be ready.

I think you highly overestimate how many people that watch linus' videos are actually willing to buy one of the products he reviews. Getting 200 orders (1/10.000th) just from his subscribers would already be rather good, 100-50 seems more realistic.

Maybe I underestimate how many people are eagerly awaiting a case like this, though.
 

SaperPL

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As I said - it might not be that hard. We don't really know how many people are waiting for such a case and that's right. And as you said we don't know how many people just want to watch fun videos about hardware there. But 0.1% is not a huge part of subscribers population and that might be possible.

Also note that most of the people who see this case ask straight away where or how to buy it even if they weren't especially looking for a new case. So it's not exactly about how many of those people are waiting for such a product but how many will want it straight away.

Anyway I just told you how I see the off-shelf ordering possibility to happen. We're not really targeting the 2000 units, just 100 for a start ;)
 

FiDDy

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eyo : )
i had an idea yesterday, have you thought about installing external dust filters that somehow connect to the holes ? like some click in mechnanism, or something to stick in and slide

also if noticed that in a majority of the renders the case is slightly turned and the right side is shown, do you think the closed holes for the horizontal stand (on the left) disrupt the design?
if so, there may be viable alternatives, no? maybe install the same kind of screws the other side has, and stick somethign in there that makes for a horizontal stand.

finally, you mentioned that you would maybe organize a poll for the color of the i/o button. i personally would vote for an orange button, because it kinda fits the name i think, also i like orange.
so theres that :D any chance ?

ps. i think you already have a polished product, i simply enjoy being here : )
 

SaperPL

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eyo : )
i had an idea yesterday, have you thought about installing external dust filters that somehow connect to the holes ? like some click in mechnanism, or something to stick in and slide

We thought about lots of different designs and even mounts of external filters need some space inside that we don't really have, at least for some points. It looks like we'll stick to the glued, fixed filters.

also if noticed that in a majority of the renders the case is slightly turned and the right side is shown, do you think the closed holes for the horizontal stand (on the left) disrupt the design?
if so, there may be viable alternatives, no? maybe install the same kind of screws the other side has, and stick somethign in there that makes for a horizontal stand.

Yes, we're thinking about adding some plugs there too.

finally, you mentioned that you would maybe organize a poll for the color of the i/o button. i personally would vote for an orange button, because it kinda fits the name i think, also i like orange.
so theres that :D any chance ?

We're going to do the poll since we need to know how many people are really interested. We'll do this after we send the final prototype to linusTechTips. There's already question about the LED color in the poll.

I think there need to be at least 20 people that want the same color so we can order a different package for them. Of course if there's 19 or 18 of you we won't be doing a problem with that but we're not going to order whole package for 3 people wanting for example yellow or green.

ps. i think you already have a polished product, i simply enjoy being here : )

Glad to hear that. We're still polishing things for parts installation and cable management in the design though that came up when I did the SFX-L build.

By the way I did write out the ETA on what we need to do to launch on LTT forum so I'll write it here also:

Beeeyeee said:
Do we have any kind of an ETA? I know its still early in development, but I have a whole setup just waiting for a new home. 3 months? 6 months? I mean, I would love to get my hands on a prototype even. just wondering.

I'd say 3 months is really close. At this point it looks like this:

1) We've ordered last required sample pieces this week. It'll take probably up to two weeks for them to come from China and Taiwan. That includes the proper 5cm risers and USB 3.0 cable and some other smaller items.

2) We'll have to test it out once again with those sample pieces and fix things in the design and I think it might take up to week in between other things we've got at our jobs to do.

3) We'll order pre-final prototype in black colour that will include all those changes made since prototype V. After we get that we'll have to check the manufacturing details and do that last fixes. That might take a week or two to get it from metal shop because they have to put us somewhere in their timeline.

4) We'll order final prototype in white colour that will be sent to Linus. Once again it might take up to two weeks depending on how metal shop can fit our small order into their timeline.

5) We'll send the prototype to Linus for reviewing. Meanwhile we have to tackle the payment system and international shipping.

So in theory I think we might be ready for orders and manufacturing in two months but so far nothing went as smoothly as we'd like thus I can't say that's a sure thing.

As for the shipping prices it looks like the cost will be something like this:
$15- $25 - shipping to europe depending on country
$50 - $60 - for intercontinental shipping but it'll also depend on country (I've quickly checked it for USA, Canada and Taiwan)
We might be able to shave off the shipping prices a little since we'll be sending a lot of those packages but I haven't spoken to the shipping company yet.
 

FiDDy

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sounds good!

about the plugs, i think i failed to communicate. i meant it just the other way around. imo the black metal screws did better for the simple metal elegance, than the plastic plugs. i thought you could make smaller holes on the standing side and arange some kind of stand that way. like this it would look like a neat little metal packet while standing.
are you familiar with these little screws holding hard drives and stuff in place in bigger cases? maybe going to take a foto daytime. even these would do great for a stand.
this way you would also make it easy for people to lay the case on the side one wants it, effectively making it more customizable.

now im planning to lay it and put my screen on top so theres that. but i just had to get these thoughts out there! :)
 

SaperPL

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about the plugs, i think i failed to communicate. i meant it just the other way around. imo the black metal screws did better for the simple metal elegance, than the plastic plugs. i thought you could make smaller holes on the standing side and arange some kind of stand that way. like this it would look like a neat little metal packet while standing.

are you familiar with these little screws holding hard drives and stuff in place in bigger cases? maybe going to take a foto daytime. even these would do great for a stand.
this way you would also make it easy for people to lay the case on the side one wants it, effectively making it more customizable.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean but any screws for the stand would mean that if you wanted to move the rig around for example to lan party (which is also the target feature) you'd have to carry screwdriver and risk loosing some screws in unfamiliar environment. The tool-less design of vertical stand is quite neat this way.
 

FiDDy

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2psgjt5.jpg

recorded with my laptop frontcamera, but it should do the trick.

I think theyre called thumbscrews. now obviously these would not make for a polished stand, I just had them flying around here. if there would be this kind of screw maybe a bit bigger and more polished it could make for an awesome stand. and for the people that want it staying vertically. they could just use exactly the same screws the other sides have, wich would make for a rounded look.
also this way, youd need no screwdriver.

and well if you go to a lan (which I also certainly plan to do right away) you can ether only cary around the standing srews and stand it or you let the normal screws where they are and take the vertical stand with.
sure its another concept completely but i see it working.
 
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SaperPL

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Problem with such a screw is that they're not supposed to handle such weight. Also imagine what happens when you break one - the others are taking bigger forces and another one breaks of, not to mention that removing the screw piece still in the thread is a real pain.

Other end of such connection which is the exactly the same as stand-off, but with open thread from both sides, also isn't supposed to be handling such force.

The thing is if you hit your pc or when you're putting it on the desk, initially when it's not entierly level, there's a lot of force applied to this connection and it's easy to break off with such small and fragile elements. The bolt we're using on the other hand is quite sturdy and even if you'd brake that somehow you won't need to use a drill to remove it nor the case would be damaged.
 

iFreilicht

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Yeah I wouldn't use thumb-screws for feet either, at least not in a shape like this.
However I don't really see why you wouldn't use them for attaching the vertical stand. You wouldn't get any rotational forces around the joint between thread and thumb piece, that would be taken up by the mating surfaces of the stand and the panel.
You'll only get translational forces which the thread should be able to handle quite easily. When in doubt, use larger threads like M4 or M5.

Oh and about losing the screws: there are press-fit bits for trapped thumb screws, I'll try to find them for you.

EDIT: Here are examples from PEM Fasteners:

http://catalog.pemnet.com/category/pf11mf-pf11mw-pf12-pf12m-pf12mf-pem-c-a-p-s-pf12mw
http://catalog.pemnet.com/category/-knob-spring-loaded-types-pf30-pf31-pf32-pf50-pf60
 

SaperPL

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It's more about the thread pressed into the cover's surface. 1mm sheet won't support M4 or M5 pressed in threaded bushing and I don't think that M3 screws/bushings are a good idea for handling this force.
 

ZombiPL

Limp Gawd
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Yeah I wouldn't use thumb-screws for feet either, at least not in a shape like this.
However I don't really see why you wouldn't use them for attaching the vertical stand. You wouldn't get any rotational forces around the joint between thread and thumb piece, that would be taken up by the mating surfaces of the stand and the panel.
You'll only get translational forces which the thread should be able to handle quite easily. When in doubt, use larger threads like M4 or M5.

Oh and about losing the screws: there are press-fit bits for trapped thumb screws, I'll try to find them for you.

EDIT: Here are examples from PEM Fasteners:

http://catalog.pemnet.com/category/pf11mf-pf11mw-pf12-pf12m-pf12mf-pem-c-a-p-s-pf12mw
http://catalog.pemnet.com/category/-knob-spring-loaded-types-pf30-pf31-pf32-pf50-pf60


Tbh it's not so bad idea, but compared to our mounting system it has some cons:

a) it's more expensive (for only one of those thumb-screws with springs we can buy something like 5 or even 10 sets of our screws with rubber rings). What is more, with those screws we need to insert additional standoffs in the Sentry's top cover, which makes it even more expensive. I know it's still not such a big money, but we're "fighting everywhere". If we're happy with the quality and functionality, than the idea stays.

b) it needs more time in production. In our system we need only 4 holes made by laser (2 in stand and 2 in top cover). In thumb-screw mounting system we need at least 4 holes + 4 operations of mounting those screws on a press.

c) it needs more space. If You look closer to our design, You'll see that in Sentry, motherboard is very close to the side. Imgaine You have many cables insice the case. With standoffs in the top cover, You'll be exposed on damaging them, every time You open the case. Our system needs less space.

d) it needs additional covering for the painting. If we'll insert those thumb-screws with spring before powder painting, than for this operation we'll need to cover somehow this nice, shiny, polished head of the screw. It also costs some money and i'm not sure how would such covering work. It may be problematic.

e) it's more complicated. If You damage something, You will have problems with repairing it (like replacing the pressed screw or pressed standoff. In our solution, You have only 2 holes for every screw, and if You destroy one of the screws, You'll be able to buy it somewhere in some metal or furniture store, and You won't need to use press.

f) If You are using screws without press-mounting (those simple ones that FiDDy posted), You'll needs some sort of additional bag to hide the screws when You're not using the stand. It's also problematic.

I like this spring thumb-screw, but i think, we won't change the actual design when it has more pros than cons. If we find some problems with our mounting system, than maybe we'll consider this idea once again.
Thanks for the tip.
 

iFreilicht

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Yeah it certainly has its downsides, and I realise that you're trying to be as competitive as possible, so you have to save money wherever possible. I personally really like the idea of trapped thumbscrews like that, I think I'll try it out with my design and let you know how it works out ;)
 

SaperPL

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Little update:

After some minor tweaks that enlarged the holes in the central wall for better cable management it occurs that now you should be able to fit 120mm cooler inside but there's some limits:

- Radiator + Fan thickness combined has to be 48mm max, so it looks like 32mm radiator + low profile 16mm thick fan.
- ITX sized gpu, max 175mm but if pcb is oversized then you'll need modded low profile PEG connector
- SFX 100mm long psu only
- power button removed from the front and plugged by something like black 16mm round plug
- some additional cable mess to manage by yourself
- either really tight bend of water cooling pipes or secondary hard drive slot in front of PSU obstructed



Also I'm not sure about the airflow for this AIO but it might be a positive thing for the gpu since it'll make the air move at the back of gpu. You'll have to see if that warm air from cpu cooling will make it better or worse for gpu.
 
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So I'll be able to water cool the cpu? Awesome! Have any ideas on which one will work best with cable length/management.
 

SaperPL

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Not sure about the types but you would need 30 cm long pipes I think. You would need to insert the radiator without the fan through the hole in central wall before installing PSU.

Note that we're not going to test out every possible config so if you're going to build such non-standard config think ahead before ordering or ask for some dimensions here :)

Also I'm not entirely sure how ther airflow will go here. You'll have to see for yourself.

Also in this config you've got 8mm of space between the PEG connector on the VGA and the outer wall so if you're going for an oversized-pcb ITX card then take that into account and prepare to mod yourself a low profile PEG power cable.
 

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,766
I have to say, knowing how rigid AIO tubing is, I'm quite skeptical of being able to fit even the slimmest AIO rad into a case only 66mm thick. In the M1 we have 85mm between the fan bracket and power supply, and AIOs with slim rads only barely fit in that space with very tight bends on the tubing. That said, not all AIO tubing is created equal, and maybe with an extra-slim rad like the new TD03-Slim it could work, but I'd nevertheless recommend trying it out yourself before even making the suggestion to people that it's possible. That may be a difference in our approaches, but I personally prefer to be conservative in my recommendations for what's likely to fit. Even then, what some people find an easy fit others find quite difficult.
 

SaperPL

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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1,821
I have to say, knowing how rigid AIO tubing is, I'm quite skeptical of being able to fit even the slimmest AIO rad into a case only 66mm thick. In the M1 we have 85mm between the fan bracket and power supply, and AIOs with slim rads only barely fit in that space with very tight bends on the tubing. That said, not all AIO tubing is created equal, and maybe with an extra-slim rad like the new TD03-Slim it could work, but I'd nevertheless recommend trying it out yourself before even making the suggestion to people that it's possible. That may be a difference in our approaches, but I personally prefer to be conservative in my recommendations for what's likely to fit. Even then, what some people find an easy fit others find quite difficult.

Good to know, then may we assume that if someone makes the set himself he will be able to fit? I think he should.
 

SaperPL

[H]ard|Gawd
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I removed the AIO then from previous post - most likely you will have to complete a custom set to fit the pipes.
 

EdZ

Gawd
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
773
It think AIO fitting is hinged mainly on the block exit design. The H75 has 90° rotating outlets both on the same edge. This allows it to fit with complete ease in the Ncase even with a fan pushing it further into the case. The trick is to choose the outlet side to you can 'spiral' the tubing to where you want it to go rather than trying to skirt the minimum bend radius. Granted, all AIOs that I know of have the tubing exit the radiator perpendicular to the face with rigid barbs, so the 'chokepoint' would be if there is sufficient case height to allow that tubing to exit and make a 90° turn. As long as it can, routing the tubing is a matter of taking it is pretty much a straight run to the motherboard area, then 'orbiting' it around the socket to take up any slack.
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
I have to say, knowing how rigid AIO tubing is, I'm quite skeptical of being able to fit even the slimmest AIO rad into a case only 66mm thick. In the M1 we have 85mm between the fan bracket and power supply, and AIOs with slim rads only barely fit in that space with very tight bends on the tubing. That said, not all AIO tubing is created equal, and maybe with an extra-slim rad like the new TD03-Slim it could work, but I'd nevertheless recommend trying it out yourself before even making the suggestion to people that it's possible. That may be a difference in our approaches, but I personally prefer to be conservative in my recommendations for what's likely to fit. Even then, what some people find an easy fit others find quite difficult.

I removed the AIO then from previous post - most likely you will have to complete a custom set to fit the pipes.

My case has 65mm of internal height, and I can confirm that both Cooler Master Seidon 240M and Cooler Master Seidon 120V fits in it. Both have FEP tubings, which has smaller bend radius than conventional AIO coolers, so you'll just need to amend your statement to say "Fit AIO coolers with FEP tubings". I know that I'm not bending the tubes beyond usable level either, since I'm achieving reasonable overclocks with them.
 

darksable

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
431
How large is the gap between the top of the graphics card and the internal wall right there? I'm trying to figure out if a graphics card with a custom water block and 90 degree fittings might actually fit - if so, then come Pascal graphics, I might well be buying a second one of these cases, to hold radiators, my pump and reservoir, and do an external radbox. *lusts.*
 

SaperPL

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,821
There's 18.75mm of space in CAD at the moment but when we include the filters and some precision based offset it should be around 18mm. Yes, I know it's extremely tight.

If you're ordering custom water block then I'd advise going for something like 16mm limit since there's no chance we'll fit PEG cables tighter than that. With custom designed block I think it should be possible to do it this way.
 

darksable

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
431
Sorry, I phrased that poorly; I meant custom as in 'a real waterblock as opposed to an all in one cooler strapped to the card.'

Hmm, that IS awfully tight, but if I'm using 12.5mm hard tubing, it should work perfectly - it only needs to run from the CPU to the graphics card and out the back.

Are any of the venting holes going to be able to mount fans? If not, no big deal, I'll find a way to mount them, it'd just be nice to have support for a 120mm or 140mm fan above the motherboard to cool it slowly and move the air around a little.
 

SaperPL

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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There aren't any fan mounting holes prepared for the vents, you'll have to figure that out by yourself.

I think that If you went with 80mm fan you could simply strap it somehow to water block mounting bracket with clamps.
 
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