Sennheiser HD650 vs HD600

[iTravis]

So my birthday is coming and I wanna spoil myself a bit by getting a new headphone. I never have a good headphone before since I mostly prefer a 5.1 setup but guess it's now the time. I will mainly use it for music and gaming.
I look at several headphones and narrow my choice to either the Sennheiser HD650 or HD600, I can get a good deal on these headphones so I won't be paying full price.
My question is it is worth to get the HD650 considering it's $100 more than the HD600? I heard the HD650 has a deeper base and I kinda like its look better than the HD600, yet I still wanna hear some more inputs and see what do you guys think about it?
Oh and by the way I'll be using it on my computer with the X-Fi Forte.
Thanks in advance!

 

[450]

IMO: Get an amp for your HD600/650. Make sure to use lossless files too.

Have you looked at AKG K702 or Beyerdynamic DT990s or 880s?

 

[Tau]

Your soundcard wont have a hope in hell at driving either set of those cans.

For any cans in that range you NEED to amp them.

a Xonar ST(X) would be enough to drive them.

Also look into the AKG 601/701/702's very nice cans, and they can he had for cheap.

 

[iTravis]

Thanks for the input guys, reason why I consider either one of those is because I can get a good discount on the egg. Let's say I can get the HD650 for just $320 and the HD600 for $220 that's why I consider them, from what I heard they're pretty decent headphones too.
Anyway, I think my Forte has a built-in headphone amp so is there a way I can improve the amp on it by replacing another? I just look at it and the amp can be removed. Just looking for an option that can be used on my desktop.

 

[Tau]

Do you have adjustable Gain for the headphone output on that card?

I must have skimmed over the soundcard part...


You may be alright then if you can boost the impedance gain.

I would suggest demoing them locally if you can before dropping the money on them, as it can be a pretty personal thing.

I can attest for the HD600's though their a beutiful set of kit.

 

[450]

The HD6x0 scale pretty well. If you get them now, they'll sound alright, but you can start adding expensive DACs and amps down the line and it'll grow with you.

 

[astrallite]

The 600 and 650 both use the same drivers, it just happens to be the 650's FR curve falls within a certain tolerance that is set by Sennheiser.

 

[450]

astrallite, what's your sig about?

"14 Hz - 45KHz +/- 2db"

 

[astrallite]

lol, it's the fr response of a rythmik f15 (12.5 Hz - 108 Hz ± 3db, 14hz - 120 Hz ± 2db) paired with a paradigm sig s2v2 (52 Hz - 45 KHz ± 2db).

 

[iTravis]

Hm..as I said since this is gonna be my first headphone ever so I don't really have much experience with them. I might just go to some local store and hear it myself, but the thing is I'm looking for the best possible solution to use with my current X-Fi Forte and since you guys said it won't be enough to drive it, I might consider other option.
And I just found out the amp on the Forte only has 30-50 Ohms while the minimal of the HD650 is 300 Ohms. Anyway so I guess I can just get one to play around and upgrade down the road later, unless there are other options. Just curious if anyone here actually has experience with this.

 

[450]

Get a used Zero DAC for $100-150 to go with your headphones. It'll be a good start!

 

[iTravis]

Get a used Zero DAC for $100-150 to go with your headphones. It'll be a good start!

Thanks man, I'll look into that, is it okay to buy it used though? And how easy to set it up/hook it up to computer? Sorry I'm just a noob in term of this.

 

[450]

I've bought used gear all the time and its generally fine.

Lets use the zero dac for example. There are two types of zero dac available, one with usb the other without.

Obviously, for the one with usb, you can just connect that to your computer and then from the zero dac go to the headphones/speakers. For the non-usb version you will need to use a coaxial or optical cable to get a digital signal from your soundcard or motherboard onboard sound. Doesn't matter which one you use IMO. Either way, the cables are cheap on monoprice.com.

It's all pretty simple once you get the equipment in front of you. It's truly just plug and play!

 

[Rinderanzug]

And I just found out the amp on the Forte only has 30-50 Ohms

Where are you getting that information from? Auzentech claims it can drive 600 ohms. You can certainly get better sound from an external dac, but the forte should drive the HD650 just fine.

 

[43st]

I have a Forte and HD600.. the sound card drives it quite well. Stay away from the Zero.. it's more hype than reality (I used an upgrade Zero for a short time before giving it away).

From my experience the HD600 is much better sounding than the DT880 and 990 as well. The sound, while accurate, is very flat in both of those cans. The HD600 is more spacious and has depth that the Beyer's lack.

 

[alamone]

My trusty HD580s have lasted over 10 years and still sound great but the earpads are starting to fall apart. While you can get replacement pads for about $50 I decided to just upgrade to the HD650 ($350 after coupon from headphone.com). I'm using mine with the Nuforce uDAC which seems to be a good performer for the price.

One minor detail is that I think the 580s and 600s use the thinner cables that are more prone to developing bad connections, the 650s come by default with a much thicker cable. However the 580/600/650s all use the same detachable connector so you can simply swap out the stock cable if you want to. Some people swear by fancy third party cables but I'm not so sure if it's worth paying a few hundred bucks just for a cable. If you're going to do that, you might as well get a higher end model like the HD800 in the first place.

Anyway, I was really happy with my 580s, great comfort and sound quality especially if properly amped. Also all parts are easily replaceable if they wear out.

 

[FaRKle0079]

The HD600 and HD650 are more complimentary products IMO. They have different sound signatures rather than the HD650 improving on the HD600. The HD600 is a refinement of the HD580 and continues the HD580's neutral sound. The HD650 on the other hand, has a more "colored" sound where emphasis was definitely given to certain areas.

Personally I prefer the HD600 over the HD650, although I haven't really found it worth it to upgrade to either from my modded HD580s. I've had my HD580s for about 5-6 years now and they're still running great. One of the first mods I did to it was to get a thick HD650 cable. Then I got HD600 grills for the sides and an HD650 head cushion. The HD600 grills look a lot better IMO, and supposedly are better for the sound, but I couldn't really tell a difference. The HD650 head cushion is much more comfortable over the stock HD580/600 one. My rig is powered by an EMU-0404 USB to a RSA Hornet M amp, but that's a bit expensive.

Your HD600/650s will still sound great out of your soundcard, considering you said you've never had anything this high end before, but they can be improved on by amping. If you're happy with your soundcard's output, look around for a $100-$200 desk amp. That should drive your HD650/600s well.

 

[450]

I have a Forte and HD600.. the sound card drives it quite well. Stay away from the Zero.. it's more hype than reality (I used an upgrade Zero for a short time before giving it away).

From my experience the HD600 is much better sounding than the DT880 and 990 as well. The sound, while accurate, is very flat in both of those cans. The HD600 is more spacious and has depth that the Beyer's lack.

What would be better than the Zero around 100-150? uDAC?

 

[Ronco]

So my birthday is coming and I wanna spoil myself a bit by getting a new headphone. I never have a good headphone before since I mostly prefer a 5.1 setup but guess it's now the time. I will mainly use it for music and gaming.
I look at several headphones and narrow my choice to either the Sennheiser HD650 or HD600, I can get a good deal on these headphones so I won't be paying full price.
My question is it is worth to get the HD650 considering it's $100 more than the HD600? I heard the HD650 has a deeper base and I kinda like its look better than the HD600, yet I still wanna hear some more inputs and see what do you guys think about it?
Oh and by the way I'll be using it on my computer with the X-Fi Forte.
Thanks in advance!

It's not just the bass - it's the effect on the sound overall as well as other tweaks and I think that the HD650's are much better all-rounders than the HD600, which can come across as more of a 'classical' phone.

I've had the flagship Qualias/Sonys, Grados, beyerdynamics, AKG's, AudioTechnica and Denon... and personally I think nothing still beats the HD650's overall. It's not an 'exciting' sound, and I've had more than one pair because I've got rid of them in termporary favour of other phones, but I've kept coming back to them. Accurate, well spaced, unfatiguing yet presents dynamics as it should.

I've just ordered the Tesla T1 as the latest thing to try, but in reality given the track record I'm not expecting to dump the Senns anytime soon.

There's even argument against electrostatics: As much as I generally like the Stax SR-007 O2 (I'm now on the Mark IIs as my office phone), honestly speaking it doesn't do enough over the HD650 to make it worth the money, and the two have character that's not a million miles off - the HD650 is essentially if you made the O2 a little less resolving and more muffled. And the Sennheiser also has outstanding comfort and ease of use for a phone of this type - and wins hands down over the frequently fiddly, very location-sensitive Stax in that respect. Build quality is high - makes Grado look like a joke to be honest - and there are no fragile parts as on Denons or Audio-Technicas - yet it's designed with more elegance than the blocky Beyers.

You can tell I like them, can't you

The cable is replaceable which makes its longevity lower, although I don't believe in aftermarket cables - I've measured a few and some of these cables are not only unweildy, many are badly made inside and one of the major reasons they might actually sound different is that occasionally they're actually bordering on semiconductors due to construction or material issues. You can probably also tell I'm not a fan of third party cables. Leave it alone, but should anything untoward happen, you can always replace it yourself - another plus.

 

[iTravis]

I've bought used gear all the time and its generally fine.

Lets use the zero dac for example. There are two types of zero dac available, one with usb the other without.

Obviously, for the one with usb, you can just connect that to your computer and then from the zero dac go to the headphones/speakers. For the non-usb version you will need to use a coaxial or optical cable to get a digital signal from your soundcard or motherboard onboard sound. Doesn't matter which one you use IMO. Either way, the cables are cheap on monoprice.com.

It's all pretty simple once you get the equipment in front of you. It's truly just plug and play!

I think I'm just gonna get a dedicated amp later since not many would recommend the DAC for the HD650.

Where are you getting that information from? Auzentech claims it can drive 600 ohms. You can certainly get better sound from an external dac, but the forte should drive the HD650 just fine.

Sorry I got it all wrong, just found out on Auzentech website.

I have a Forte and HD600.. the sound card drives it quite well. Stay away from the Zero.. it's more hype than reality (I used an upgrade Zero for a short time before giving it away).

From my experience the HD600 is much better sounding than the DT880 and 990 as well. The sound, while accurate, is very flat in both of those cans. The HD600 is more spacious and has depth that the Beyer's lack.

I decided to go with the HD650 due to its deeper bass and I like the design better. But rather than that I doubt there's any significant difference between the two.

My trusty HD580s have lasted over 10 years and still sound great but the earpads are starting to fall apart. While you can get replacement pads for about $50 I decided to just upgrade to the HD650 ($350 after coupon from headphone.com). I'm using mine with the Nuforce uDAC which seems to be a good performer for the price.

One minor detail is that I think the 580s and 600s use the thinner cables that are more prone to developing bad connections, the 650s come by default with a much thicker cable. However the 580/600/650s all use the same detachable connector so you can simply swap out the stock cable if you want to. Some people swear by fancy third party cables but I'm not so sure if it's worth paying a few hundred bucks just for a cable. If you're going to do that, you might as well get a higher end model like the HD800 in the first place.

Anyway, I was really happy with my 580s, great comfort and sound quality especially if properly amped. Also all parts are easily replaceable if they wear out.

The cable is part of the reason why I pick the HD650 over the HD600, I heard the cable on the HD600 is fragile and easy to break as many have problems and end up getting the cable for the HD650 to replace.

The HD600 and HD650 are more complimentary products IMO. They have different sound signatures rather than the HD650 improving on the HD600. The HD600 is a refinement of the HD580 and continues the HD580's neutral sound. The HD650 on the other hand, has a more "colored" sound where emphasis was definitely given to certain areas.

Personally I prefer the HD600 over the HD650, although I haven't really found it worth it to upgrade to either from my modded HD580s. I've had my HD580s for about 5-6 years now and they're still running great. One of the first mods I did to it was to get a thick HD650 cable. Then I got HD600 grills for the sides and an HD650 head cushion. The HD600 grills look a lot better IMO, and supposedly are better for the sound, but I couldn't really tell a difference. The HD650 head cushion is much more comfortable over the stock HD580/600 one. My rig is powered by an EMU-0404 USB to a RSA Hornet M amp, but that's a bit expensive.

Your HD600/650s will still sound great out of your soundcard, considering you said you've never had anything this high end before, but they can be improved on by amping. If you're happy with your soundcard's output, look around for a $100-$200 desk amp. That should drive your HD650/600s well.

Thanks for the input, I already made up my mind and will go with the HD650 then get a dedicated amp later. I don't really know how some people can make such big of a deal when come to something like this and say I would be wasting my money getting the HD650 without using an amp, DAC... That's why I'm looking for more suggestions and recommendations and so far I believe I've known enough to go ahead and get the HD650.

It's not just the bass - it's the effect on the sound overall as well as other tweaks and I think that the HD650's are much better all-rounders than the HD600, which can come across as more of a 'classical' phone.

I've had the flagship Qualias/Sonys, Grados, beyerdynamics, AKG's, AudioTechnica and Denon... and personally I think nothing still beats the HD650's overall. It's not an 'exciting' sound, and I've had more than one pair because I've got rid of them in termporary favour of other phones, but I've kept coming back to them. Accurate, well spaced, unfatiguing yet presents dynamics as it should.

I've just ordered the Tesla T1 as the latest thing to try, but in reality given the track record I'm not expecting to dump the Senns anytime soon.

There's even argument against electrostatics: As much as I generally like the Stax SR-007 O2 (I'm now on the Mark IIs as my office phone), honestly speaking it doesn't do enough over the HD650 to make it worth the money, and the two have character that's not a million miles off - the HD650 is essentially if you made the O2 a little less resolving and more muffled. And the Sennheiser also has outstanding comfort and ease of use for a phone of this type - and wins hands down over the frequently fiddly, very location-sensitive Stax in that respect. Build quality is high - makes Grado look like a joke to be honest - and there are no fragile parts as on Denons or Audio-Technicas - yet it's designed with more elegance than the blocky Beyers.

You can tell I like them, can't you

The cable is replaceable which makes its longevity lower, although I don't believe in aftermarket cables - I've measured a few and some of these cables are not only unweildy, many are badly made inside and one of the major reasons they might actually sound different is that occasionally they're actually bordering on semiconductors due to construction or material issues. You can probably also tell I'm not a fan of third party cables. Leave it alone, but should anything untoward happen, you can always replace it yourself - another plus.

I really like your enthusiasm. This is gonna be my first time using such high end headphone so I'm really excited. I'm no audiophile by any mean but I'm kinda trying to be one, just take my music listening experience to the next level. And as mention above I think I'm good with the stock HD650 cable than the HD600. There are many headphone cans on the market and I don't really have much experience with them so I figure I have to do more research b4 making my final decision, and I think I don't go wrong with either the HD600 or HD650 as they're quiet well known in the audiophile community. Just can't wait.
Much appreciate for the help guys.

 

[43st]

What would be better than the Zero around 100-150? uDAC?

For that amount save your money for something better. iBasso D10 comes to mind as a reasonably priced DAC was outstanding sound quality.

 

[CJRP]

lol, it's the fr response of a rythmik f15 (12.5 Hz - 108 Hz ± 3db, 14hz - 120 Hz ± 2db) paired with a paradigm sig s2v2 (52 Hz - 45 KHz ± 2db).

Nice system, what are you using to drive it?

 

[astrallite]

Nice system, what are you using to drive it?

Onkyo 805 as the processor, Parasound HCA 3500 for the amp.