school me on wireless AC

[cj3waker]

Here's the situation. I have DIR-655 which I HATE, and some wireless N adapters. They all get terrible speeds.

An ASUS USB adapter, when first plugged in will show in windows at 300mbps, and then drop slowly down to usually 13.5mbps and sometimes down to 1.0mbps (in windows)

The other ones drift around 60mbps

Im obviously being pwned by good neighor policy, and have tried forcing different channels to no avail. Only a few other wireless networks even show up and all have 1-2 bars (subdivision with large lots)

So I would like to move onto wireless AC. All my neighbors are running on wireless G and I doubt anyone has a 5ghz band (although I dont yet have a card so maybe Im just not seeing it, but I highly doubt it)

So now on to my questions:
5ghz band should keep my speeds from being throttled by interfering 2.4ghz bands yes?

An AC1200mbps router is 867mbps on the 5ghz band, and 333 on the 2.4 band, can a dual band adapter take advantage of both these and add them to the total of 1200? I dont really understand this at all, it seems like running off a single band would be a better idea.

Are the USB3.0 adapters good to go?

Have you guys noticed a difference in streaming?

Is there a tangible difference (think blu-ray streaming) between ac1200 and ac2400?

thanks

 

[Deleted member 12106]

AC will still need 2.4

 

[PornoSatan]

Here's the situation. I have DIR-655 which I HATE, and some wireless N adapters. They all get terrible speeds.

An ASUS USB adapter, when first plugged in will show in windows at 300mbps, and then drop slowly down to usually 13.5mbps and sometimes down to 1.0mbps (in windows)

The other ones drift around 60mbps

Im obviously being pwned by good neighor policy, and have tried forcing different channels to no avail. Only a few other wireless networks even show up and all have 1-2 bars (subdivision with large lots)

So I would like to move onto wireless AC. All my neighbors are running on wireless G and I doubt anyone has a 5ghz band (although I dont yet have a card so maybe Im just not seeing it, but I highly doubt it)

So now on to my questions:
5ghz band should keep my speeds from being throttled by interfering 2.4ghz bands yes?

An AC1200mbps router is 867mbps on the 5ghz band, and 333 on the 2.4 band, can a dual band adapter take advantage of both these and add them to the total of 1200? I dont really understand this at all, it seems like running off a single band would be a better idea.

Are the USB3.0 adapters good to go?

Have you guys noticed a difference in streaming?

Is there a tangible difference (think blu-ray streaming) between ac1200 and ac2400?

thanks

No you can't just "add them" together, and it's the fault of the manufacturers to make you think so because of the way they advertise them. There's 2 different types of "dual band" routers out right now, those that support concurrent dual band, which is 2.4 ghz AND 5 ghz at the same time with 2 distinct SSIDs, or those that simply do one at a time. You'll have to dig deeper to find which router supports which, because sometimes it's not clear. Manufacturers add them together because technically you are able to max out the 2.4 ghz wireless network doing a transfer, while also maxing out the 5 ghz network doing a transfer, but you can't simply "add them together" doing a single transfer for example. As far as speed is concerned, that's going to depend on the router, the adapter, the settings and most of all the number of antennas. If your router has 4 sending antennas but your laptop only has 2 receiving, then your bandwidth is cut in half for example due to your laptop.

AC will still need 2.4

AC is 5ghz only.

 

[bman212121]

5ghz band should keep my speeds from being throttled by interfering 2.4ghz bands yes?

An AC1200mbps router is 867mbps on the 5ghz band, and 333 on the 2.4 band, can a dual band adapter take advantage of both these and add them to the total of 1200? I dont really understand this at all, it seems like running off a single band would be a better idea.

Are the USB3.0 adapters good to go?

Have you guys noticed a difference in streaming?

Is there a tangible difference (think blu-ray streaming) between ac1200 and ac2400?

thanks

1. Correct. 5ghz band is completely separate so it won't matter what is on 2.4ghz.

2. PornoSatan answered this one perfectly.

3. I can't say as I've looked at adapters, but if you can find a name brand one that is USB3.0 it should perform well.

4. Yes, I have HD streams that simply wouldn't work on G that work on N. If your streaming is bad already on N in 2.4ghz just getting in open space in 5ghz might make the difference.

5. Nope. The marketing is strong with those numbers as stated before in the other post. But to try to elaborate a bit more on what PornoSatan said the amount of bandwidth available is highly dependent upon the number of antennas your devices have. If you are buying USB sticks then you are getting a device with only 1 antenna. So the max rate for a typical AC connection would be 433mbps. That's if your sitting < 5 feet away from the AP with perfect signal strength. USB wifi devices usually are smaller, weaker antennas than say a desktop card or the built in wifi in a laptop. So in a real scenario where you might only have 1/2 your signal strength I would say 175mbps should be easily to obtain. This still should be a good enough connection to where you should be okay.


Just replacing the router with a dual band AC one might be all that you need. If you look up your current N wifi cards some of them might be able to work in the 5ghz band. You might be able to get more bandwidth by using some devices in 5ghz and others in 2.4ghz as they can both work simultaneously on some devices.


I should also note that you said the other ones drift around 60mbps. That is exactly where a single connection should be on N in 2.4ghz at full signal strength. (65mbps) When you see the 300mbps number that assuming larger channels which is only possible to use in 5ghz, and you have to have 2 or more antennas on both the router and client. If you put those clients into the 5ghz band you can use a larger channel width and double the bandwidth to ~130mbps.

 

[cj3waker]

Thanks for the answers, Ill start looking a little deeper bman I have a few questions though

I should also note that you said the other ones drift around 60mbps. That is exactly where a single connection should be on N in 2.4ghz at full signal strength. (65mbps) When you see the 300mbps number that assuming larger channels which is only possible to use in 5ghz, and you have to have 2 or more antennas on both the router and client. If you put those clients into the 5ghz band you can use a larger channel width and double the bandwidth to ~130mbps.

Some of my N devices will actually connect at 300mbps, and show 300mbps at certain times, and this is on 2.4ghz only N devices. For example, when I first connect, it might show 300mbps, then drop to 130, then to 300, then to 60 etc. I believe 2.4ghz N can go up to 600mbps? and definitely 300mbps.

Because of my issues with my shitty N router, I usually just connect to my trust dd-wrt wrt54G which will always connect at 54mbps, and never has any issues. It doesn't seem right that normal N speeds would only be ~10mbps faster than G?

 

[QwertyJuan]

http://www.trustedreviews.com/asus-rt-ac68u-802-11ac-router_Peripheral_review

My current favourite AC router for SOHO use.

 

[bman212121]

Thanks for the answers, Ill start looking a little deeper bman I have a few questions though


Some of my N devices will actually connect at 300mbps, and show 300mbps at certain times, and this is on 2.4ghz only N devices. For example, when I first connect, it might show 300mbps, then drop to 130, then to 300, then to 60 etc. I believe 2.4ghz N can go up to 600mbps? and definitely 300mbps.

Because of my issues with my shitty N router, I usually just connect to my trust dd-wrt wrt54G which will always connect at 54mbps, and never has any issues. It doesn't seem right that normal N speeds would only be ~10mbps faster than G?

It's possible that your device does have wide channels turned on(I should have said that it can be done but shouldn't be). See if you can find a setting for 40mhz channels. If it's 2.4ghz only you definitely want that off! The issue is that in order to get those large channels you need about 82% of the spectrum which is areas with multiple access points just isn't going to be possible. Most tests show little gain using the wider channels but it could definitely have a negative effect if other users are in the area. You'll want to set it for 20mhz only. In 2.4ghz there is actually only 3 non overlapping channels, 1,6, and 11 using 20mhz channels. You can see it by this chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11g-2003 If you are using 40mhz channels (HT40) I think you can only pick from channels 4 - 8. So you are guaranteed to overlap at least 2 of the three usable channels and overlap all 3 if your router is on channel 6. What this means for you is that if anyone else is using wireless in the area you device will have to work around all other connections in order to share the bandwidth.

That also would mean that device does in fact use two antennas. That is a good thing as you can get more bandwidth from it.

600mbps is possible with N, but would require 4 antennas for the devices on each side. There is almost no real world scenarios where this would be the case. However you'll probably see a lot of simultaneous dual band ones that do 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz advertise as 600mbps because they are doing the adding of 300mbps for each band to make it sound better.

I thought the same thing about G vs N too before I really started looking into the topic. N has the ability to have faster speeds through the use of wider channels and more streams using MIMO. The issue is that it's greatly depends upon the device and location whether or not you can utilize the extra bandwidth. A high end router connecting to a high end desktop with 3 antennas on each side can have 3x the bandwidth of say a smartphone that one has one antenna. The same is true for a N device in 5.8ghz versus one in 2.4ghz. You can use the 40mhz channels can get 2x the bandwidth on the same device. Once again most smartphones except for the high end ones from the last year or so have only one antenna and can only operate in 2.4ghz. that's where you end up around the ~65mbps limit. Pair a decent laptop in 5ghz with 2 antennas and all of the sudden you are at 300mbps.


And finally, if other people are in the area sharing the bandwidth on your spectrum (meaning they are on the same channel or the channel they are on overlaps your channel), your N devices will end up slowing down some because in order to retain backwards compatibility they have to transmit some parts of the signal at slower speeds.

 

[cj3waker]

Thanks.

I should have clarified earlier, I am aware of the difference between the 20mhz and 40mhz band, and that is causing some of my issues. Since routers no longer support a forced 40mhz, and good neighbor pretty much mitigates 40mhz, I am stuck on 20mhz. As I stated in the OP I have tried 1,6, and 11 to no avail. Even on the 20mhz band I should be able to get 130mbps though.

Anyways, I appreciate all the insight BMAN, you definitely spent some time on the responses and Im very grateful for the wisdom.

Im switching ISPS next week (another story) and they include a free N router, I doubt its any good, but anything has to be better than my DIR-655. So provided the speeds still suck on that, I will make a few purchases to move into the AC world.

AC-1200 (867mbps on the 5ghz band) should be more than enough for any blu-ray streaming yeah?

 

[S-F]

Blu-Ray isn't going to use more than what a N router can give you. BD's have a maximum transfer rate of 54 Mb/s.

 

[cj3waker]

Switched from my shitty local cable company to DSL, and the included ADSL modem router in mixed mode is running all** my N devices at 300mbps.

**I have a really bad USB N adapter that runs at about 1mbps that I just ordered a replacement for. Im gonna test some streaming over the 300mbps, since I'm finally getting it, and see how she does

 

[Mackintire]

Rinse and repeat....how many times in a week do I need to copy the same response into multiple threads.........



in order to not offer you bad advice you'll need to do some work.

Download the wifi analytics tool here: http://www.ampedwireless.com/wifianalytics/
and install it onto your laptop.

Start walking around your home....

Take some screen captures of the wireless spectrum on both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. So we can see what networks are interfering with yours, and how badly.

We will need to see multiple examples of each.

Show us a good spot in your home, show us a couple bad spots. We will need to see both the graphs of all the networks and the link score.

Make sure you tell us what network(s) are yours.