School Blocking File Sharing

[PopeKevinI]

i applaud you. the cliche is: "college is not for everybody."
you have certainly proven that true.

....but where am i supposed to learn computer science in the mean-time? who will hire me so i can use them as a training grounds?

it would be terribly presumptuous for me say "it is absolutely necessary for a person to be educated in college to know anything"

isn't it a little presumptuous for you to say high academia isn't worth anything?

(i know you didn't say this outright, but i beleive the inference is there.)

I started my career in the IT field in 1997. It was a different time then.

My advice to wanna-be IT professionals today is ALWAYS to get a degree. I'm already hitting a glass ceiling because I don't have one, and plan to have a BS some time in the next five years. But I have eight years' experience on a resume, which has twice landed me a job with "degree required" on the job description. When they see my age and realize that I went career pretty much straight out of high school, they take me seriously. Problem is it's a LOT more difficult to go straight into the workforce now than it was eight or ten years ago. There are a lot more people who know as much as you do, and there are guys with degrees who will work for the same money.

Once I get the degree I passed up on years ago, I'm told I'll be more marketable than most people my age (early 30s then)...I'll have a brand new degree AND almost 15 years' experience.

 

[nameless_centurian]

I started my career in the IT field in 1997. It was a different time then.

My advice to wanna-be IT professionals today is ALWAYS to get a degree. I'm already hitting a glass ceiling because I don't have one, and plan to have a BS some time in the next five years. But I have eight years' experience on a resume, which has twice landed me a job with "degree required" on the job description. When they see my age and realize that I went career pretty much straight out of high school, they take me seriously. Problem is it's a LOT more difficult to go straight into the workforce now than it was eight or ten years ago. There are a lot more people who know as much as you do, and there are guys with degrees who will work for the same money.

Once I get the degree I passed up on years ago, I'm told I'll be more marketable than most people my age (early 30s then)...I'll have a brand new degree AND almost 15 years' experience.

my apologies. i interpreted your statement about having a disdain for higher academia in a different manner than you intended, as is obvious by your post... and on that note, depending upon how you mean it, i might be inclined to agree with you

 

[PopeKevinI]

my apologies. i interpreted your statement about having a disdain for higher academia in a different manner than you intended, as is obvious by your post... and on that note, depending upon how you mean it, i might be inclined to agree with you

Don't get me wrong. I think that the majority of a college education is useless, and I think that the majority of employers who require (as opposed to prefer) a degree are idiots. And I'm married to a teacher

Let me put it this way: I've fired college graduates because they didn't know what they were doing. The same goes for MCSEs (a certifcation I still don't plan on getting). Fact of the matter is, you can get through college and remember nothing of what you were taught...blind reliance on degrees is a very bad thing imho.

I'm still fairly convinced that the primary function of the first two years of university is to teach a person how to think...and I don't mean that in a nice way. One of the reasons I didn't do well in school is because I'm a very unorthodox thinker, and that didn't sit well with my instructors. Even when my research and writing was solid and later got praise from professionals in the field when I submitted it just looking for validation, I failed a course because I reached conclusions the professor didn't find acceptable. At first I thought it was one arrogant professor, then I started talking to other students and realized it was systemic. The difference between me and the other students is that I'd fail a class out of principle, while they would be yes-men for the grade.

Yeah, I'll never cut it in a serious corporate environment. I'm okay with that

 

[Dew]

Here is a thought, pay for it yourself.

Get cable or DSL if available, worst case you could get a verizon aircard or get sprint vision service.

No one here is going to tell you how to subvert the university network, only how to get around having to use it.

Can't get any of those options? How about at someone elses resedence, you foot the bill, have a P2P box there, VPN or VNC to the box.

 

[Orinthical]

Just a few cents here with a note:

The whole "you shouldn't limit us! we pay for it!" argument is flawed, or do you really think you're only getting 6.0/768 at home on your cable modem because that's all the wire is capable of?

Network admins will always have some guidelines in place to protect the security and performance of the network. In design it is always best to lock a place down then open it on a need-by-need basis rather than leave it totally open, there are alot less holes to plug in that scenario. You do not need to get around this, you don't need to "lobby" for something that has been restricted by people much higher up the totem pole than your average college admin; you simply need to realize this is a network built to facilitate educational purposes and not your mp3/warez wants. If you have a legitimate need then express it and if they still say no then it's on them.

Oh and by the way - if you don't think you can get that paper done because 'the admins' have blocked p2p, there are libraries that offer information often more credible than what you can find in a google search.

Worse case scenario: talk to your professors and let them know of your woes. If there is a 'real' need there then they may be able to speak to the administration for you.

 

[rsnellma]

The is always more than one way to skin a cat and in blocking network programs. We use several ways. Blocking ports in the PIX firewall is one way. Or if the port is used for other LEGAL traffic then blocking the program using a PacketShaper. And the list could go on....you get the jist.

Bob2001

 

[PopeKevinI]

Here is a thought, pay for it yourself.

Get cable or DSL if available

Almost universally not available in dorms.

worst case you could get a verizon aircard or get sprint vision service.

Aren't those pay per MB? Or per minute? Kind of expensive. Satellite broadband is generally better at around $70 / month.

No one here is going to tell you how to subvert the university network, only how to get around having to use it.

Didn't read the thread, did ya?

Can't get any of those options? How about at someone elses resedence, you foot the bill, have a P2P box there, VPN or VNC to the box.

Because university dorm residents know lots of people who will let them do that. And they're made of money, too

 

[PopeKevinI]

Just a few cents here with a note:

The whole "you shouldn't limit us! we pay for it!" argument is flawed, or do you really think you're only getting 6.0/768 at home on your cable modem because that's all the wire is capable of?

There's a difference between limiting bandwidth and limiting services. I wouldn't pay for internet service that blocked services, but I don't expect an OC3 line on my DSL.

Worse case scenario: talk to your professors and let them know of your woes. If there is a 'real' need there then they may be able to speak to the administration for you.

If you can demonstrate a need then it shouldn't be a problem. If the IT department is keeping you from making the grade, the school needs to fix it. In this case, though, the best thing to do is organize students to push for change.

 

[rhouck]

I hate to derail this soapbox with a more technical question but here it goes

The local university is setup to disallow FTP servers (in the sense that outside computers can't connect to them, making them useless). This is a good thing for the network in light of the host of viruses that hit a year ago. The only real downside being that it killed access to IRC on every port except 7000

However, the "AIM Share" function (essentially an imitation FTP server) through AOL Instant Messenger still works, as does ICQ's (I am assuming, haven't tried it).

Can someone explain the basic difference as to how this works? And, relatedly, how it would be possible to block that as well?

I feel like I'm missing something basic about how the network works

 

[BillLeeLee]

Aren't those pay per MB? Or per minute? Kind of expensive. Satellite broadband is generally better at around $70 / month.

They do have unlimited plans (I should know, I use the service for research I'm doing, and I get very very amazing discounts, like $20 for the card, which was 95% off real cost, and super cheap unlimited service).

However, the unlimited plans for regular users are incredibly expensive, around $70 a month (for Sprint at least).

Also, unless you live in an area that has the high-speed EVDO networks, you're gonna get crappy speeds. My research project involves packet dispersion times and real time bandwidth estimation, and regular CDMA 1xRTT networks (what you'll probably be using if you don't have access to the EVDO network) caps out at 140 - 144 kbps, which is the theoretical limit of 1xRTT. Do the math, and that is about 18 KB/s maximum download speed. During daytime, the speeds are lower, and I realistically was getting around 90 - 100 kbps in peak hours. A lot of my testing was on late nights (5 AM times).

Of course, if you have access to EVDO, I hear people get 500 kbps - 1 mbps on those.

But still, it is very expensive when you factor in the cost of the aircard ($250), activation fee (I think like $35), and monthly unlimited cost ($70). And the speeds really don't justify the cost, it's just a convenience thing (since the cdma network is pretty much available everywhere you'd realistically go).

 

[Boscoh]

Like I said, in the state of Texas, THE ENTIRE STATE, you can't live off-campus under a certain age (I think it's 21) unless you've lived in the area for 12 months before you enroll.

It's not 21. I lived off-campus when I was 20, and had just transferred to the new university that same semester.

When I went to Stephen F. (a State university), you had to live on campus until you had 40 hours.

When I was 19, I worked full-time and paid rent. I ended up not graduating from college because of the assumption that my parents were paying my way...because they made too much money, I didn't qualify for financial aid.

I'm a 27-year-old college dropout who makes more than most grads in my area. I don't hold a high opinion of "higher education" these days.

I'm in almost the same boat as you. I hate it when people stereotype young adults as being the kid who's getting a ride through college from his parents and doesnt do a damn thing to contribute to it. Crawl out from under your rock and realize that just because someone is in college doesn't mean they are there having a grand old time with no cares in the world. I know plenty of kids like that, but I know plenty of "kids" in the same boat as me, or worse.

My parents pay maybe 15% of annual tuition. The rest is scholarships (not much) and student loans that I'll have to pay back + interest. When I get done with school, I'll have well over $30,000 in student loans, and if it wasn't for the loans I wouldn't even be here. I dont get much financial aid; my parents make too much money, but they have other dire obligations which leaves them with very little money. The student financial aid system in this country sucks. I try to supplement my scholarship money and parents money with as much money as I can make working over the breaks and doing consulting while up here, but it also takes a lot of money to live. Oddly enough, living off campus is about $100/mo cheaper than living on campus, even after adding up food/gas/utility costs that I wouldnt have living on campus.

I hate college with a passion. I haven't learned hardly anything that I didn't already know. It feels like I'm paying $7,000 a semester for a piece of paper...literally. The only good thing I've gotten out of the experience is that I've had the chance to be President of two very important Computer Science organizations, and that in addition to my almost 3 years of professional experience has really helped get my resume noticed.

I can see the benefits and the drawbacks of having unfiltered internet. The drawbacks being that not everyone uses it responsibly, and they typically ruin the experience for the rest of us who are actually using it to do school work, not watch porn and play games. The benefits are, of course, feeling like you can do whatever you want with a connection that you pay a lot of money for.

The school I go to now is a private school, and they choose to also filter inappropriate material from the Internet. Their definition of inappropriate differs quite a bit from mine, so that was one of the reasons I chose to live off campus. I give enough money to that school, I dont need them telling me that insecure.org is inappropriate material. The biggest reason was cost, though.

If you dont like it, and you cant move off, excercise your right to protest and do something about it besides complaining to people who cant do a damn thing to help ya.

 

[Boscoh]

Can someone explain the basic difference as to how this works? And, relatedly, how it would be possible to block that as well?

The commands used as well as the ports used are likely different. I know with ICQ, it picks a random high port to establish the file transfer.

You can block FTP just by blocking the port. You would likely have to have something 'intelligent' to block just the file transfers for AIM or ICQ. Or, you could just redirect aol, aim, icq domains to 127.0.0.1 via DNS .

 

[rhouck]

The commands used as well as the ports used are likely different. I know with ICQ, it picks a random high port to establish the file transfer..

Ah because with traditional FTP you are limited to Port 21 (easily blocked), while AOL can use any high level port?

I guess my confusion is more regarding how the software itself works with AIM then (i.e. how their fake FTP system works)

Do you know of any other programs that are similar?

 

[Boscoh]

Ah because with traditional FTP you are limited to Port 21 (easily blocked), while AOL can use any high level port?

I guess my confusion is more regarding how the software itself works with AIM then (i.e. how their fake FTP system works)

Do you know of any other programs that are similar?

This thread might help you out a little:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,4517561~root=equip,16~mode=flat

I think ICQ and AIM file transfers are somewhat similar. However, I've noticed that sometimes when AIM cant send a file, ICQ can do it with no trouble at all. Honestly, I haven't looked at it close enough to tell you the differences between the two.

 

[synergyo1]

Heh I'm glad UW is very lenient on P2P file sharing

 

[rhouck]

This thread might help you out a little:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,4517561~root=equip,16~mode=flat

I think ICQ and AIM file transfers are somewhat similar. However, I've noticed that sometimes when AIM cant send a file, ICQ can do it with no trouble at all. Honestly, I haven't looked at it close enough to tell you the differences between the two.

Somewhat, thank you for the link.

However, my curiousity is more towards the AIM Sharing feature rather than regular File Transfers. I would assume the tech is the same once a transfer is started, but the connecting/browsing files part is what eludes me. As in, how does that work on a technical level? (since it can't be like a regular FTP server)

 

[PopeKevinI]

It's not 21. I lived off-campus when I was 20, and had just transferred to the new university that same semester.

When I went to Stephen F. (a State university), you had to live on campus until you had 40 hours.

I stand corrected. It's been six years since I went to any school, and eight years since I had to think about housing rules. I was somewhat right, at least

Go 'Jacks. My wife graduated from SFA. I grew up 30 miles from there--you can guess which (kind of) big town that is--and knew a lot of people who went there. Spent quite a few evenings at the clubs near the school.

 

[Ockie]

That would be nice, but I'm not aware of anyone that does that. Personally, were I in a dorm that filtered what I could and could not use, I'd gladly pay the $50 extra a month for an honest to god no training-wheels connection.

XOR -

Your analogy doesn't work. First of all, no commercial broadband provider would ever try to pull that shit, if they did, they'd go out of business in a heartbeat. I'd sooner go back to dial-up than use broadband that didn't let me use P2P and similar programs, hey, it would take forever, but at least I'd still have access. Also, for many students, it isn't simply a matter of 'don't like the dorms? move out!' most universities require students to live in the dorms during the freshman year, and for anyone who has a scholarship including room and board, it would be just dumb to go out and pay for an apartment when the school is willing to do it for free.

Actually it works quite well here... they have low priced aDSL and SDSL packages for the dorms here (your talking under 30 bucks a month for SDSL).

The local telco takes care of all the problems and the students can do as they please... it saves the university the problems and keeps the traffic of their own networks.


I dont know why all the places doesn't do this.

 

[Boscoh]

I stand corrected. It's been six years since I went to any school, and eight years since I had to think about housing rules. I was somewhat right, at least

Go 'Jacks. My wife graduated from SFA. I grew up 30 miles from there--you can guess which (kind of) big town that is--and knew a lot of people who went there. Spent quite a few evenings at the clubs near the school.

Oh yeah. I have very fond memories of Jitterbugs, and the Sports Shack .

The Jacks aren't doing so well in football this season.

I dont go to school there anymore. I didnt like their Comp Sci program. I do miss the night life though...there isn't much of one in this ultra-conservative town/school that I'm at now.

 

[maytheus]

Like I said, in the state of Texas, THE ENTIRE STATE, you can't live off-campus under a certain age (I think it's 21) unless you've lived in the area for 12 months before you enroll.

Flat out not even close. Those types of rules vary from school to school. It is not a state mandated rule rather a college/university one.

 

[drizzt81]

Almost universally not available in dorms.
Vz Aircard/ 3G service:

Aren't those pay per MB? Or per minute? Kind of expensive. Satellite broadband is generally better at around $70 / month.

A friend of mine is using the VZ Wireless broadband exclusively. It's ~$59.99/ month for unlimited use apart from VOIP, which the TOS prohibit you from running.

 

[PopeKevinI]

Flat out not even close. Those types of rules vary from school to school. It is not a state mandated rule rather a college/university one.

That goes against everything I've ever been told by state schools here. They have all cited state law as the reason for the rule.

 

[drizzt81]

Actually it works quite well here... they have low priced aDSL and SDSL packages for the dorms here (your talking under 30 bucks a month for SDSL).

The local telco takes care of all the problems and the students can do as they please... it saves the university the problems and keeps the traffic of their own networks.


I dont know why all the places doesn't do this.

The problem is that the dorms are often wired for ethernet LANs. Providing DSL over the university ethernet would be rather awkward.

 

[PopeKevinI]

A friend of mine is using the VZ Wireless broadband exclusively. It's ~$59.99/ month for unlimited use apart from VOIP, which the TOS prohibit you from running.

And if you live where you can get good speeds, that's an expensive but viable alternative.

Satellite is more reliable, but even more expensive.

I still say they should run an independent ISP in the dorms. That'd take care of it