Sandy Bridge Build - Need GPU Advice!

[propagandist]

I read through the recent SLI vs CF review, and still would like some opinions if you all have a moment.

So I had my heart set on the 6990, and was disappointed with both the performance and price that I keep hearing about in reviews tonight. I'm currently considering other high-end graphics card options, but there seems to be a lot to catch up on as far as SLI/Crossfire. Furthermore, most threads google directs you too is full of fanboyism. I'm just interested in some facts. If any of you have some time to consider my thread over the 1000 others, I certainly would appreciate any and all feedback!


Here's my situation: I've purchased every single part of a new rig, save for the video card(s). It will be watercooled. What I have so far:
ASUS Maximus IV (only one on newegg I could grab fast enough)
I7 2600K
Corsair 1200W PSU
16GB 1600 Vengeance RAM
250GB SSD


I'm sticking all of this in my shiny new Mountain Mods case, so there's plenty of room for whatever. The 480mm radiator is going in a separate case mounted on the bottom, so don't need to worry about where that fits. I plan to WC both video cards and processor in one loop. All the fittings/coolant/etc are here, ready to go, except for GPU blocks. The water cooling is mainly to quiet this whole thing down. Radeon cards REALLY let you know when they're hot (100% fan speed).

Since a 6990 is (likely) going to be more expensive and (benchmarks say) less performing than a 6970 CF build, I'm considering just going with a dual card setup. However, I haven't done a dual card setup since ... a long time ago ... with Geforce 2s. Yes, Geforce 2s. It could run Half-Life at 1024x768, and that rocked. I keep hearing bad things about AMD's drivers and CF, though. I also hear CF doesn't work in windowed mode, and lots of games do "borderless windowed mode" for easy alt tabbing. Inputs on this?

If there are issues with AMD's things, I also began to consider 580s in SLI, since I have heard better things about Nvidia's SLI and drivers. Dropping some extra paper on better cards (or one now, one later) isn't a huge deal if it's easier to deal with.

I won't be using more than one monitor (currently at 1920 x 1200), and may upgrade down the road to one 2500 x whatever). So something that's only going to give me "the best" for a 3 monitor setup isn't needed. I just want to play 2011-12 games with 2011-12 graphics and great FPS.

So what do you think? Will Nvidia be a smoother choice? Should I go with the 6970s? Or should I still stay with the 6990 to avoid dual GPUs? And finally, is the point of dual GPUs moot with only one 480mm radiator, even if I don't plan to push my OCs that high?

Thanks for reading.

 

[samuelmorris]

I've had basically no issues at all with my 6970s. Two GTX580s are only 10% faster, use at least 115W more out of the power supply, and cost almost $300 more. That's a lot for only 10% more performance.

The only reason to go with 580s is if you're a 3D nut and want loads of games in 3D, or you run software that relies on CUDA.

 

[MrJohn]

I wouldnt go with the top of the line cards of either manufacturer unless money is of no concern to you. I would get the one step down and SLI / Xfire up from there. The price/performance ratio is too out of whack to ever recommend blowing your wallet em. That said, the random weird driver related snafoo's I've had with my 5850 and 5970 cards have left a bad taste in my mouth in regards to ATI. I dont care if Nvidia "cheats" in their drivers or pays off developers for early driver dominance/control but they have the edge. My next card wont be an AMD ATI card as long as Nvidia has a card where the GPU wont melt off. My last self purchased geforce was the 8800gtx, ive seen the 9800s/280s/260s at work and those all ran hot too but never had driver related issues and played all the popular games properly at launch.

Just one 15+ years Enthusiast's opinion.

 

[-Sn1PeR-]

I I also hear CF doesn't work in windowed mode, and lots of games do "borderless windowed mode" for easy alt tabbing. Inputs on this?

Neither crossfire nor SLI will work in windowed mode.

If you are sticking with one monitor you do not need two top of the line cards. Hell you don't even need one top of the line card. Grab a 6950 or a 570 and be happy. I wouldn't bother water cooling either. Keep that heat out of your loop to help with your cpu overclock. Either company will work fine. I've had no issues with either.

 

[samuelmorris]

I wouldnt go with the top of the line cards of either manufacturer unless money is of no concern to you. I would get the one step down and SLI / Xfire up from there. The price/performance ratio is too out of whack to ever recommend blowing your wallet em. That said, the random weird driver related snafoo's I've had with my 5850 and 5970 cards have left a bad taste in my mouth in regards to ATI. I dont care if Nvidia "cheats" in their drivers or pays off developers for early driver dominance/control but they have the edge. My next card wont be an AMD ATI card as long as Nvidia has a card where the GPU wont melt off. My last self purchased geforce was the 8800gtx, ive seen the 9800s/280s/260s at work and those all ran hot too but never had driver related issues and played all the popular games properly at launch.

Just one 15+ years Enthusiast's opinion.

The HD5970 had several driver issues that didn't plague its predecessor, the 4870X2, nor seem to plague its successor the HD6990 either.
The HD5850 played everything fine from launch apart from the GSOD issue which was fixed in relatively short order, not sure what bugs you had.

 

[DooKey]

You are going top of the line with your other components so I would go with SLI GTX 580s for top of the line performance.

Read the review of the 6990 and you'll see Kyle and the [H] even state smoothest and fastest performance is SLI GTX 580s.

 

[samuelmorris]

They might be top of the line but they're also affordable. Dual 580s are not. You have to remember sandy bridge CPUs are very cheap for what they are. Dual 580s are horrifically expensive.

 

[Bigjohns97]

I would go dual 570's but it's really all about what you are willing to spend.

 

[propagandist]

All,

Thank you for your replies. I saved up all last year for this beast, so money isn't the problem. I'm still well within my budget, and am looking for the least "pull my hair out" solution. I'd also like it to last as long as possible. My current video card (4870X2) has lasted 3 years, and it's been great. Time to upgrade, though.

I'm not planning on getting a 5GHz CPU overclock or drastically OC my video cards, but I will do a very modest one. Do any of you have any input on radiator size for this setup? Will one 480mm be enough for 1 CPU and 2 GPUs? I've got room for another 480 if needed. I want to keep it all in one loop if possible.

To me, framerates mean a lot. I would rather have one 30 inch monitor with low settings putting out 60 FPS than a 3x30 inch display with high settings putting out 15 FPS. That said, I'll only be running a monitor, and I want to have the smoothest framerates at the highest graphics possible for the longest amount of time.

From what you all are suggesting to me, I may go with the 580s over the 6970s. Only question then is should I pull the trigger on these now, or wait for the 590, with the opportunity to have 2 of them?

Again, thanks for the opinions. I'll keep you updated.

 

[DooKey]

They might be top of the line but they're also affordable. Dual 580s are not. You have to remember sandy bridge CPUs are very cheap for what they are. Dual 580s are horrifically expensive.

I love my SLI 580's. This is [H]ardforum, not [F]rugalforum or can't afford electricity forum.

BTW, are you rollo's evil twin?

 

[Lord_Exodia]

You could get a 6990 or a GTX 590 for ultimate performance. The performance of 6990 shouldn't dissapoint, as in the hardocp review it came within 5-10% of a 6970 crossfire X setup and that was at the stock bios setting, flip the switch to achieve 6970 gpu speed and voltages and your in business. The cost factor you mentioned in your original post doesn't factor in to favor the 6970s because you'd need to buy 2 fc blocks vs 1 fc block.

I don't see anywhere what resolution you plan on gaming on, if it's single screen and below 2560x1600 then forget about dual cards and consider a single 3gb GTX 580 with a single water block which are in the works already as Vega has confirmed.

 

[nissanztt90]

I love my SLI 580's. This is [H]ardforum, not [F]rugalforum or can't afford electricity forum.

BTW, are you rollo's evil twin?

SLIed 580s and an OCed 2600k in one loop with a 480mm? Dont think so. GPUs can run hot...but that CPU will be cookin. The marginal performance gain isnt worth the price of admission for 580s over 6970s.

OP: I would go single 580 for your res. If you really want 2 cards, i would recommend 2 6950's.

 

[DooKey]

SLIed 580s and an OCed 2600k in one loop with a 480mm? Dont think so. GPUs can run hot...but that CPU will be cookin. The marginal performance gain isnt worth the price of admission for 580s over 6970s.

To each his own I say. You want top performance you pay the price. Some will, some won't.

 

[samuelmorris]

I love my SLI 580's. This is [H]ardforum, not [F]rugalforum or can't afford electricity forum.

BTW, are you rollo's evil twin?

Just because there are plenty of people in here with unlimited budgets doesn't mean everybody does. If someone posts 'I want the best, cost is irrelevant' than yeah. I don't assume this is true in all cases, because it very rarely is.
Throwing away $300 for 10% gains suits the [H]ardest of the [H]ard, but those with a brain and limited wallet size, it's plain madness.

 

[propagandist]

I don't see anywhere what resolution you plan on gaming on, if it's single screen and below 2560x1600 then forget about dual cards and consider a single 3gb GTX 580 with a single water block which are in the works already as Vega has confirmed.

Great point about the waterblocks. Also, I currently have a 1920x1200 display, and if the price on 2560x1600 drops down I'll grab one. But yes, only one screen, but I want to run as many settings on high as possible. Too many games I have to reduce the performance so much to get it smooth enough, and I'd like to see all the pretty things for a good long while.

 

[mtbush]

I love my SLI 580's. This is [H]ardforum, not [F]rugalforum or can't afford electricity forum.

BTW, are you rollo's evil twin?

WINNING...

 

[Vexerz]

All,

Thank you for your replies. I saved up all last year for this beast, so money isn't the problem. I'm still well within my budget, and am looking for the least "pull my hair out" solution. I'd also like it to last as long as possible. My current video card (4870X2) has lasted 3 years, and it's been great. Time to upgrade, though.

I'm not planning on getting a 5GHz CPU overclock or drastically OC my video cards, but I will do a very modest one. Do any of you have any input on radiator size for this setup? Will one 480mm be enough for 1 CPU and 2 GPUs? I've got room for another 480 if needed. I want to keep it all in one loop if possible.

To me, framerates mean a lot. I would rather have one 30 inch monitor with low settings putting out 60 FPS than a 3x30 inch display with high settings putting out 15 FPS. That said, I'll only be running a monitor, and I want to have the smoothest framerates at the highest graphics possible for the longest amount of time.

From what you all are suggesting to me, I may go with the 580s over the 6970s. Only question then is should I pull the trigger on these now, or wait for the 590, with the opportunity to have 2 of them?

Again, thanks for the opinions. I'll keep you updated.

I don't think a single 480 would be enough. Maybe consider doing 2 separate loops ie 1 triple rad for the GTX 590 and a dual/triple rad for the cpu. Only time I would recommend splitting the loops because of such a high flow/radiator requirement.

You could probably get by with acceptable temps a little below air cooling for the cpu but I wouldn't risk it with just 1 480 especially if its over 28C in the summer.

Edit: If you decide 1 big loop (triple + dual radaitor), I would advise 2 pumps at the exact same speed for redundancy and in case 1 fails.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

Great point about the waterblocks. Also, I currently have a 1920x1200 display, and if the price on 2560x1600 drops down I'll grab one. But yes, only one screen, but I want to run as many settings on high as possible. Too many games I have to reduce the performance so much to get it smooth enough, and I'd like to see all the pretty things for a good long while.

If that's the case then get the single best card you can. GTX 580 3GB Palit with the waterblock that should be out any day now and your in business. You want high settings, you can max everything on that res with the 3gb version, yes even crysis and metro

 

[-Sn1PeR-]

Great point about the waterblocks. Also, I currently have a 1920x1200 display, and if the price on 2560x1600 drops down I'll grab one. But yes, only one screen, but I want to run as many settings on high as possible. Too many games I have to reduce the performance so much to get it smooth enough, and I'd like to see all the pretty things for a good long while.

Consider the savings from going single gpu (or dual mid current gen) your price drop on the 30in. Grab that big ass monitor -- you will enjoy it more than you would dropping all that money into gpu waterblocks or dual high end gpu's at a lowly 1920x1200 resolution. It is what you look at after all.

 

[propagandist]

-Sn1PeR- brings up a point I haven't really examined much. I'd like to know what you guys think about the current states of 2560x1600 monitors. Are there decent priced ones? Do you all have recommendations for the ones you're using? If so, how much did you/would you pay for it? I am satisfied with the monitor I have, with the resolutions I have for now. Down the road, I may upgrade.

Furthermore, as I'm exhausted from looking at radiator reviews/fan speeds/wattage dissipation etc all day long, let's assume an extreme (or [H]ard, if you will) case of going with 2 GTX 580s. If I were to put those on one loop (from what I understand of thermodynamics, this should be okay) including the i7 2600K processor. Let's also assume I don't want to run 3000 RPM fans, and would prefer something with a maximum of 1600 RPM.

How much radiator in length are we talking could cool these with no overclock? What about with a significant overclock of 4.5 GHz on the processor? Two posters have brought up points that a 480 will not adequately cool that specific setup. I have room for more (Mountain Mods Tower Pedestal 24 = 24x24x9 inches, fits on the bottom of the tower cases). One 480 takes up half of that space. Assuming I add in another 240, I would still have plenty of room for the pump to fit down there as well. What do you think?

I'm considering XSPC radiators for their excellence in lower fan speed, but it looks like I'm going to have to dissipate 550-700 Watts of heat in the radiators. Lend me your wisdom, and again, thanks to all. To pay you back, I'll post some pictures of the project once it's complete in the gallery for some eye candy.

 

[^Strike]

Get the HD 6970 CF.

 

[-Sn1PeR-]

You should ask about the 30in monitors in the Display forum. Dell seems to be the go to standard. The tech seems to have leveled off as far as big IPS panels go. They tend to run a little over $1k. You keep your monitors for several hardware upgrades though -- in my mind it's pretty important.