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Samsung SyncMaster 930B Resolution and Refresh Rate question

U

unfortunateson

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Messages
189
I recently purchased a Syncmaster 930B (great LCD), and I was under the assumption that it could run 1280x1024 @ 75hz. I used the supplied analog cable and the only supported refresh rate at that resolution was 72hz. Today I recieved a DVI cable, used it instead, and now windows only is supporting 1280x1024 @ 60hz, but I can uncheck the "Hide Modes that this Monitor cannot Display" button and choose 75hz, and the monitor seems to have no problem at all running at that refresh rate. My video card is a Ti4200 w/ 7.7.7.2 (Dunno if thats the right version number, but its the newest set of drivers at the NVIDIA site) drivers.

Basically I am just checking that the monitor specs allow it to support this refresh rate @ this resolution, even though windows XP tells me that it doesnt.
 
And why would you do that?

No matter what setting you use or push the gfx card to output the interface chip in the monitor will decode the signal to a 60 Hz and use that.
The panel operates at a frequency of 60 Hz independently of the output.

You are able to push it to 85 Hz to in some situations but you will just receive a warning which says that 1280x1024 @ 60 Hz is the recommended resolution.

If you run at 75 Hz it's just tolerances for the analogue input.
 
I have the 930B but never used analog, used a DVI cable from the time i pulled it out of the box and I was able to select 75hz without extra fidgeting. Have you tried loading Samsung's inf file for the monitor instead of using hte windows default?

And to the poster above, the 930B is an 8ms panel. I'm pretty sure that the reason most panels in the past only allowed selection of 60hz is because most were 16 to 25ms and 16ms barely just reaches being able to refresh fast enough for 60hz.

8ms on the other hand is 125hz, yes i realize that the 8ms is only in the most ideal situation, but you still want your videocard to be sending an adequate amount of video data to the panel in order to make use of the 8ms that you paid for in the panel.
 
The response time have nothing to do with the actual frequency at which the panel is operating at.

When given a command - let's say; switch to grey 125, the capacitor receives the voltage and then the electrodes will make the liquid crystals move to the right position.

The response time is how fast they do this AFTER receiving the command.

No panels operate at 125 Hz, please.

You don't have to believe me just look in most detailed data sheets for monitors and it will tell you that the panel needs a signal of 59 - 61 Hz.
If you still don't believe me look up the TDMS chips used in different monitors. The DVI needs to run at the same frequency.

And then you probably need to know that LCD monitors work in a different way than CRT monitors so you can just divide some given time with the ms statement.
 
One thing I learned at school is that Freq = 1 / Period If the period is 8ms the frequency is 125hz. That is only at ideal situation, black to white or grey to grey or something, I'm not sure how they measure that and some manufacturers vary on their techniques. This is the same reason I beleive that the 16ms panels were the first to become accepatable for gaming withou ghosting because 16ms = 62hz.

No, the TDMS signal bandwidth varies based on resolution and refresh rate. If you are only providing the bandwidth to display 1280x1024@60 then the panel will not have the information to display frames any faster than that and he needs to bump it up to 75.
 
Thanks for that information :)

I still wonder why windows doesn't want to allow 75hz... I did install the monitor drivers from the cdrom...perhaps i can get an alternate inf file, because since XP doesnt want to allow the refresh rate, no programs do, either.

And also, I noticed that the settings for "optimum" resolution in the manual say 60hz, and it seems to be, for me, harder to tell between 60hz and 75hz on an LCD, whereas it is quite easy to see the "strobing" 60hz effect on CRT screens.
 
unfortunateson said:
Thanks for that information :)

I still wonder why windows doesn't want to allow 75hz... I did install the monitor drivers from the cdrom...perhaps i can get an alternate inf file, because since XP doesnt want to allow the refresh rate, no programs do, either.

And also, I noticed that the settings for "optimum" resolution in the manual say 60hz, and it seems to be, for me, harder to tell between 60hz and 75hz on an LCD, whereas it is quite easy to see the "strobing" 60hz effect on CRT screens.
Click to expand...
There is no strobing or flickering with an LCD monitor so you wouldn't see it in that way. I've not tested it, I ran 75hz from the beginning, but I think you would only be able to tell a difference in games where ghosting my be present.

Maybe thats the problem, remove the INF, I let windows detect the monitor automatically using default stuff. Same thing with my old hitachi, it was 1600x1200@75hz(windows saw this, was on the box, in the spec sheets) but if I installed the manufacturer inf it only allowed the selection of 70hz
 
The interface chip will translate the signal. The higher frequency is just a tolerance.

I already said it but I will try again:
You can't compare the ms and the Hz! (!!!)

The frequency (Hz) at which the panel operates is not the ms. The interface chip receives a signal, translate it and send it to the capacitors.
The capacitors receive this signal and tell the electrodes to make the liquid crystals in position by given the required voltage.

The ms is AFTER the command.

Like if I had 20 apples and were given the command to drop one apple each second. The ms would be the time from my hand to the floor but not the command each second.

It's the same. The reason for not talking about ms (and Hz instead as the main reason) on a CRT is that it is very reactive and because it's not static.

You need to understand the difference and I see you don't as you try to calculate the ms into a frequency. (seconds).

If you want to see it for yourself check the interface chip used in most monitors. You could also dig into the FRC method used in the TN panel. The technological principles of this method refer to the actual frequency used in the panel.
 
mistar said:
Like if I had 20 apples and were given the command to drop one apple each second. The ms would be the time from my hand to the floor but not the command each second.
Click to expand...

I need to update your analogy. You have 20 apples and you have a phyiscal limitation that you can only drop them as fast as once per second, which would be a rate of 1hz (pixel response). You don't drop any apples until you are given the commands to. But when the commands start coming they are given 2 times a second or 2hz (data signal). Then you start falling behind and ghosting as you try to drop the next apple you were commanded to before you have finished dropping your current apple.

The pixel response can be directly seen as a frequency as all things that have a time response.
 
I just said that the frequency the panel operates at and the ms is not the same. Of course you can see it as an frequency like you can see a inch in meters.

Hehe, yeah. It was an example dude. If that's all you gonna comment on then I think this discussion is over.
 
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