Sad visit with local computer store today

[7718]

I deliver pizzas in spokane WA , and I delivered a pizza (medium 2 topping, with cheesebread and drink for 17ish) today to one of the local computer stores , Abacus computers. I was quasi-familiar with one of their techs from when I used to manage a local pawn shop and we used to argue about how his store didn't carry any amd solutions. Back then he said that they "had to cover the warranty which wasn't profitable for AMD systems, because their so unstable". I asked since it had been 2+ years since I seen the guy if they had started carrying amd cpu's/compatible motherboards (after he tipped me) and the guy ( a different employee been with company for 2-3 years) said "No we don't carry amd processors because of problems with the heat" And I said " Athlon 64's are rated around 60watts in thermal output, if memory recalls correctly intels prescott core cpus are well over 100 watts in heat output" and the dude was like "well amd's processors are unstable and we don't like having to make tons of service calls, not to mention that amd cpus have broken thermal protection" I said something along the lines of "I'm familiar with the problems amd had with the athlon xp platforms thermal diode failing when the fan was removed but I'm sure thats fixed now" their employee basicly shook his head at me like I didn't know what the hell I was talking about and walked away.

I wasn't trying to start an argument with him, I was just curious if they might carry a product i might be interested in buying if it was competitive with newegg.. I felt like he was taking my questions and comments as a insult or attack, it was very uncomfortable. I didn't degrade to name calling or get jackassish i thought. After all the idiot tipped me 5$. It frustrates me that people who work in the industry don't know what the hell their talking about. Laymen computer buyers probably think he knows his stuff, when all his product knowledge seems to comes from the early athlon tbird era.

 

[Zoio]

lol yep they are out there, they use technical jargon and have no clue what the hell they are talking about. Thats a good approach you made though.

 

[robberbaron]

I work in a computer store. We have mostly AMD chips in since people that shop there don't ever buy Intel chips.

Heh, one person today said that AMD chips were too hot and burned out. I taught them that an Athlon64 actually runs cooler than a Pentium 4 and consumes about 2/3 of the power. He was amazed.

AMD does have a well earned reputation for being hot and unreliable though. At least the P4 is hot and reliable, heh. I've never seen a dead P4 chip. I've seen plenty of dead AMD chips, including Socket 754 Semprons

Just today I was diagnosing a faulty one. It caused vertical lines to show up on the screen, which was odd. I swapped the RAM and board, problem persisted. Finally swapped the chip and the issue went away. Intel chips... are never bad.

 

[SpoogeMonkey]

Sounds like he was an Intel !!!!!!, or reads too much tom's hardware/anadtech On the other hand, he could just be an ignorant a$$hole that shouldn't be in the business if he can't produce any compelling arguments as to why they don't offer a broader variety of hardware.

 

[robberbaron]

Sounds like he was an Intel !!!!!!, or reads too much tom's hardware/anadtech On the other hand, he could just be an ignorant a$$hole that shouldn't be in the business if he can't produce any compelling arguments as to why they don't offer a broader variety of hardware.

It probably wasn't even the douchebag's call. A small computer store has to be extremely picky about what it stocks. If it's employees arent willing to make a sales pitch for AMD, the store simply can't afford to stock the stuff.

 

[7718]

I'm just a pizza guy, but if I was in the unfortunate position of owning a local computer store here in spokane I'd think diversity would only benifit me. Give people options, and if you don't do that don't blow smoke about the other guy, give a "true" reason like "currently Intels dual core processors are cheaper than amd's". Just don't volunteer things like "however not competitive".

 

[robberbaron]

I'm just a pizza guy, but if I was in the unfortunate position of owning a local computer store here in spokane I'd think diversity would only benifit me. Give people options, and if you don't do that don't blow smoke about the other guy, give a "true" reason like "currently Intels dual core processors are cheaper than amd's". Just don't volunteer things like "however not competitive".

Diversity helps to a degree, but really, a store HAS to stock what will sell, and Intel is what will sell without much convincing. If they had talented salesmen who could educate the customer about the benefits of each CPU (yes, guys, Intel has a ton of benefits, especially price/performance in the dual core area and streaming apps) then they could stock both companies. Intel is the "easy way out" IMO.

 

[SpoogeMonkey]

It's like the little hick-town I'm working in now. I went to build a new comp for my boss, so I went to the one n only comp store (office supply store actually) to check for parts. AMD was a special order only, so I had my choice of a 3gb prescott, 2.6 cely, or 2.2 cely. $275 + tax for the 3gigger Mobo selection was even worse, as only 1 of the 3 actually supported the 775 lga chip, which after the "computer whiz" sold me the wrong board the first time, then
finding out its pcie only....i had to return it again. I won't even mention the $125 for a 128mb, cas 3 stick of 3200 ram. "A dollar a megabyte is a good deal these days".........farging idiot.

 

[SpoogeMonkey]

Diversity helps to a degree, but really, a store HAS to stock what will sell, and Intel is what will sell without much convincing. If they had talented salesmen who could educate the customer about the benefits of each CPU (yes, guys, Intel has a ton of benefits, especially price/performance in the dual core area and streaming apps) then they could stock both companies. Intel is the "easy way out" IMO.

Very true. I have people asking me to help them pick out computers for them all the time. The most common response I get when asking them what they're looking for is "It says Intel Inside, so that's good, right?"

Not bashing Intel, they've had very successful ad campaigns. Who doesn't know the bunnysuit men, or the blue man group these days?
"Amd who?" "What's an amd?" (say the word, not the letters.....I get this ALOT)

 

[CaptRingold]

Laymen computer buyers probably think he knows his stuff, when all his product knowledge seems to comes from the early athlon tbird era.

Early Athlon T-Bird era? Dunno about anyone else, but my old 1.2ghz Tbird still serves full time just fine... just not quite a Far Cry rig

 

[CreamySoupUSA]

I won't even mention the $125 for a 128mb, cas 3 stick of 3200 ram. "A dollar a megabyte is a good deal these days".........farging idiot.

You just did...


lolz, jk jk

 

[Dew]

AMD earned its bad rep back in the K6/K7 days, mostly thanks to VIA. Unfortunately that rep has stuck with it. These days, when someone asks me about building a computer and I know they have no interest in ever opening the thing, I point them to the Dell website, configure a system based on their current and projected needs, load up on the warranty, and send them on their way. With Dell they can pay anywhere from a bit more to a lot more depending on what they need. But they are not my responsibility when something goes wrong, that is what Dell tech support is for.

I am a platform agnostic person. I go with whoever has the best thing going at the time when I build a system. If I was getting a gaming laptop today it would be an Inspiron 9300 or XPS2, if I was building a overclocking system to be mostly used for heavy multimedia work, X2 3800+. Gaming only system on the cheap, Sempron64 2800+. Extreamly cheap router/single function, low cpu load function computer, Intel Shelton 1GHz CPU/mobo combo($90 shipped, fanless, 12watts heat output, you can't beat it)


All that said, if I was building a server where uptime is critical, Intel would be my only choice. They have earned the rep.

 

[onetrueday]

AMD earned its bad rep back in the K6/K7 days, mostly thanks to VIA. Unfortunately that rep has stuck with it. These days, when someone asks me about building a computer and I know they have no interest in ever opening the thing, I point them to the Dell website, configure a system based on their current and projected needs, load up on the warranty, and send them on their way. With Dell they can pay anywhere from a bit more to a lot more depending on what they need. But they are not my responsibility when something goes wrong, that is what Dell tech support is for.

I am a platform agnostic person. I go with whoever has the best thing going at the time when I build a system. If I was getting a gaming laptop today it would be an Inspiron 9300 or XPS2, if I was building a overclocking system to be mostly used for heavy multimedia work, X2 3800+. Gaming only system on the cheap, Sempron64 2800+. Extreamly cheap router/single function, low cpu load function computer, Intel Shelton 1GHz CPU/mobo combo($90 shipped, fanless, 12watts heat output, you can't beat it)


All that said, if I was building a server where uptime is critical, Intel would be my only choice. They have earned the rep.

you're not alone. i agree fully with everything you just said.

I'm running a 9300 myself and just played bloodrayne2 for 4 hours straight on it, everything set to max.

 

[Advil]

I own a computer store. Living in the middle of several Intel campuses, we sell about an equal number of Intel and AMD CPUs in a year.

I see about the same number of dead chips from each. I'd call their current reliability equal.

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

Hmm. Time to troll the ACME Computer stores in town.

 

[Ice Czar]

Early Athlon T-Bird era? Dunno about anyone else, but my old 1.2ghz Tbird still serves full time just fine... just not quite a Far Cry rig

as does my 1.2GHz , and my 1800+ and my 900MHz ect.

there is a big difference between "enthusiasts" that are driven to know
and poor slobs that just have a job and settle for parroting pat answers

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

one of the local computer stores , Abacus computers

address?

 

[Rhetoric]

Good job keeping your temper man, I would've flipped. Intel's are good stuff, though I do buy AMD, but that guy is just a plain nimrod. I hate ignorant people in the biz that don't believe in updating their knowledge.

 

[pstang]

you're not alone. i agree fully with everything you just said.

I'm running a 9300 myself and just played bloodrayne2 for 4 hours straight on it, everything set to max.

yeah an AMD system could never do that

the whole stability thing is a moot point, most instability comes from poor drivers/setup, opterons/athlons64's have proven stability and to say otherwise you are no better than the tech from abacus computers

 

[AndoOKC1]

is it just me or can you guys never seem to run into so called "computer experts" who have the deep enthusiasm and knowledge that most regulars on hardforums have. Everytime i go to a computer store i just have to bite my tongue b/c their "computer experts" have no idea about anything beyond the tech sheet intel and microsoft sends them. It'll be the day when i hear someone who know what a memory divider is and knows how to properly overclock.

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

It'll be the day when i hear someone who know what a memory divider is

for me, it'll be the day when someone explains to me why a64's simply have a memclock limit instead of being able to pick the actual cpu:ram ratio

 

[Aieget]

for me, it'll be the day when someone explains to me why a64's simply have a memclock limit instead of being able to pick the actual cpu:ram ratio

The memclock limit is the ratio. It's just written differently. If the mem divider is set to 166 then the ram will operate at 0.83 times lower speed than the FSB (or HTT).

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

The memclock limit is the ratio. It's just written differently. If the mem divider is set to 166 then the ram will operate at 0.83 times lower speed than the FSB (or HTT).

sorry, incorrect in the case of any K8

i'll give someone else a shot at explaining.. from a hardware enthusiast site no less. imagine my surprise if i found someone in RL who could explain it correctly

 

[Eickst]

I own a computer shop. I do not sell any intel products. Not even laptops. You can bla bla bla all you want about the Pentium M being better, but not in a price per performance issue. I use power consumption as comparative selling tool, and I try to educate people as much as possible.

But honestly, most laypeople don't care. They just ask "Is it fast?". And I say "Yes."

 

[7718]

http://www.abacus-llc.com/ this is the place. Their pretty typical of the local stores here in Spokane. What can you do? At least I have matured enough not to try and prove my rightness and "help" the fools.

 

[robberbaron]

sorry, incorrect in the case of any K8

i'll give someone else a shot at explaining.. from a hardware enthusiast site no less. imagine my surprise if i found someone in RL who could explain it correctly

I'll ask someone at Best Buy and let you know

 

[Eickst]

I'll ask someone at Best Buy and let you know

HAHA good luck with that one. Most of the techs at Best Buy aren't even aware that they work in the computer department.

 

[robberbaron]

HAHA good luck with that one. Most of the techs at Best Buy aren't even aware that they work in the computer department.

I know of a few true techs that work at Best Buy. They all hate that place with a passion, though, for the reasons you stated. I'm lucky to work in a PC repair/parts store where my co-workers actually know computers.

 

[Josh_B]

Most consumers:

1) Don't care what is in their PC, except when they get together and the topic PCs comes up. Then everyone is an expert and wants an Intel.

2) AMD doesn't advertise, and 99% of consumers are idiots and refuse to do any research. This is why you see $400 800XL's in Best Buy.

Vendors like Intel because:

a. No one ever got fired for buying (or selling) Intel.
b. Consumers know the brand, and even if an Intel product sucks compared to another company's wares, the average consumer doesn't know. In many cases, the consumer will even delude themselves into thinking Intel is still better.
c. The benefits of selling Intel are numerous... cooperative marketing $$$, free or near-free parts, good warranty, etc. Intel also gives away lots of swag... something that might influence purchasing managers' expenditures.
d. Intel parts are easy to find in the channel.

 

[SLiLOVER]

The guy at my local computer store is very smart ,he sells Intel and AMD but, he clearly prefers AMD.

 

[GilmourD]

c. The benefits of selling Intel are numerous... cooperative marketing $$$, free or near-free parts, good warranty, etc. Intel also gives away lots of swag... something that might influence purchasing managers' expenditures.

Yes, I love my Intel swag. I have a P-III T-shirt that I often wear while under the hood of my Mustang GT. :-P

 

[SLiLOVER]

Yes, I love my Intel swag. I have a P-III T-shirt that I often wear while under the hood of my Mustang GT. :-P

What year is your Mustang?

 

[GilmourD]

What year is your Mustang?

1994. Before that, my 1986 Firebird (RIP) applied a lot of grease to the good ol' Intel T-shirt.

 

[StoneNewt]

AMD does have a well earned reputation for being hot and unreliable though. At least the P4 is hot and reliable, heh. I've never seen a dead P4 chip.

I'll invite you to come take a look at our current stock of 10 or so dead P4 & Xeon CPUs, okay they all came out of rack solutions but all of them seem to have suffered from thermal melt down. The AMDs didn't fare any better though, we've got a small stash of dead AMDs too, along with PSUs etc. So offically we need rendundent AC units

Intel chips... are never bad.

except when they break

 

[Advil]

Yeah, I love it when people get some cheap-arse 1U rackmount server case because they don't want to pay for 2U of space month to month. Of course it's going to run a powerhouse dual proc web server. Oh, and "It makes too much noise cant you quiet it down?".

Result? Despite being warned a half dozen times, they bitch when the CPUs and hard disks burn out in six months and it costs them $1000 for repair and a week in down time.

Duh.

 

[Eickst]

Yeah, I love it when people get some cheap-arse 1U rackmount server case because they don't want to pay for 2U of space month to month. Of course it's going to run a powerhouse dual proc web server. Oh, and "It makes too much noise cant you quiet it down?".

Result? Despite being warned a half dozen times, they bitch when the CPUs and hard disks burn out in six months and it costs them $1000 for repair and a week in down time.

Duh.

That's classic. Personally, I normally use 4u so that there is space for several hard drives and no need for a riser card.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

2) AMD doesn't advertise, and 99% of consumers are idiots and refuse to do any research. This is why you see $400 800XL's in Best Buy.

LOL I noticed not that long ago, probably this year that Radeon 9600XTs still cost around $200 dollars or around $180 dollars at Best Buy!!!

 

[towert7]

I deliver pizzas in spokane WA , and I delivered a pizza (medium 2 topping, with cheesebread and drink for 17ish) today to one of the local computer stores , Abacus computers. I was quasi-familiar with one of their techs from when I used to manage a local pawn shop and we used to argue about how his store didn't carry any amd solutions. Back then he said that they "had to cover the warranty which wasn't profitable for AMD systems, because their so unstable". I asked since it had been 2+ years since I seen the guy if they had started carrying amd cpu's/compatible motherboards (after he tipped me) and the guy ( a different employee been with company for 2-3 years) said "No we don't carry amd processors because of problems with the heat" And I said " Athlon 64's are rated around 60watts in thermal output, if memory recalls correctly intels prescott core cpus are well over 100 watts in heat output" and the dude was like "well amd's processors are unstable and we don't like having to make tons of service calls, not to mention that amd cpus have broken thermal protection" I said something along the lines of "I'm familiar with the problems amd had with the athlon xp platforms thermal diode failing when the fan was removed but I'm sure thats fixed now" their employee basicly shook his head at me like I didn't know what the hell I was talking about and walked away.

I wasn't trying to start an argument with him, I was just curious if they might carry a product i might be interested in buying if it was competitive with newegg.. I felt like he was taking my questions and comments as a insult or attack, it was very uncomfortable. I didn't degrade to name calling or get jackassish i thought. After all the idiot tipped me 5$. It frustrates me that people who work in the industry don't know what the hell their talking about. Laymen computer buyers probably think he knows his stuff, when all his product knowledge seems to comes from the early athlon tbird era.

Maybe he's getting paid "under the table" by intel to be a sole purchaser of Intel processors.

I would hate to think even a small store like that would do it, but intel has lost my vote of confidence.

 

[towert7]

Vendors like Intel because:

a. No one ever got fired for buying (or selling) Intel.
b. Consumers know the brand, and even if an Intel product sucks compared to another company's wares, the average consumer doesn't know.

HAHA, you know what this remindes me off?

Back in the day, some mutual fund managers were "pressured" into buying companies like IBM, even if they went no where or lost money. The manager's boss would never blame the fund manager for picking IBM, after all it was a good pick, just that the stock did'nt do so well. But if a fund manager picked something like "Pep boys" which was a no name buisness, and it went down, the manager's boss would be asking a million questions about why they picked this "pep boys" that lost so much money.

Thus because of the above example, many managers just went with things like IBM, because it was eaiser. ^_^

It takes guts to do what you think is right in our current socieity if it deviates from the norm, cough cough.

 

[QuimZ]

I will put aside most of my usual bitching and whining about uninformed, ill-representing techs/sales associates for this post.

Mom and pop PC shops in my area NW Ohio are becoming slim, and in my particular town virtually non-existent. As for pricing these people are, and have been getting absolutely slayed by the big boys in the retail and e-tail biz of PC parts and pre-built computers. They can't keep up with Newegg's prices on most stuff, and they sure as hell can't build a computer as cheap and as powerful as HP, Compaq, or Dell's offerings. I went to a small computer shop out of town a few months ago needing a 120mm fan (couldn't wait for shipping) and saw a tiger direct invoice on the counter. Some of these places pay what we pay. So they have to do it to stay in business. However, misleading a customer due to lack of knowledge, being ignorant, and refusing to diversify your stock is straight B.S.

Only way I could understand this scenario would be if the guy got seriously hosed on previous AMD chips..A little money lost is a big problem for small biz. They can't afford to lose anything.

Omit the first line of this post for a second. My aunt got totally screwed a few years ago on a system because of a sales rep who shat on AMD's name. She could have saved big money and had a more powerful computer for what she paid for her P4 2.6 system. I won't listen to their BS and walk away. Heck, I'd take almost any thread from these forums even if it's fan boy-ish in flavor and use it over the word of a salesman that I didn't know personally.
/end rant