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S3 Mini - upcoming ITX case

G

geostation

n00b
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
58
Here's a new ITX case that is being worked on and will hit Kickstarter soon.. read more about it
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...-(100-aluminum-ITX-and-made-in-America)/page2
Ps. I'm not the designer of the case. I just came across it on XS
NnmWOAll.jpg
 
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The ribbon extension PCIE cable and the GFX card orientation makes want to expose components. I personaly prefer cube over slim but this with that bent "leg" looks really nice.
 
IMO, that design is nothing compared to your first one, and I think other people would agree with me:

uIWcml.jpg


The one you are posting here seems too raw... and too racing. I simply don't like that hole pattern at all. The one I've posted? Simply ASTONISHING.
 
I gotta agree with the previous poster. New one looks like it's make of sheet metal.
 
They both look great imo though I'm partial to the smaller one.


I also don't think the OP is the one actually designing the case(NFC Systems), though I could be wrong. You may want to post any feedback in the thread on the XtremeSystems forum.
 
prava said:
IMO, that design is nothing compared to your first one, and I think other people would agree with me:

The one you are posting here seems too raw... and too racing. I simply don't like that hole pattern at all. The one I've posted? Simply ASTONISHING.
Click to expand...
These are two different cases. the one you posted is not being made :( I'd get myself the smaller one though as its perfect for a mobile workstation, that i'm interested in building.
 
SithSolo1 said:
They both look great imo though I'm partial to the smaller one.
I also don't think the OP is the one actually designing the case(NFC Systems), though I could be wrong. You may want to post any feedback in the thread on the XtremeSystems forum.
Click to expand...
i'm not designing the case or anything. i came across this on XS and thought folks here might be interested.
 
geostation said:
i'm not designing the case or anything. i came across this on XS and thought folks here might be interested.
Click to expand...
Might want to make that apparent in the OP before everyone starts asking you a bunch of questions you don't know the answers to ;)
 
TsingTao said:
Yes, the original S3 design is stunning. Sad to see it won't happen.
Click to expand...

While it looked stunning it would have been cost prohibitive to manufacture as noted by NFC, somewhere in the $400+ range just for the case. I don't know about the rest of you but I would never spend that much on a case alone.
 
SithSolo1 said:
While it looked stunning it would have been cost prohibitive to manufacture as noted by NFC, somewhere in the $400+ range just for the case. I don't know about the rest of you but I would never spend that much on a case alone.
Click to expand...

I've spent ~$400 on case before, but I don't really see either of the above cases costing that much to make.

This is the most expensive case I've ever bought, and to me, it looks like it takes a lot more craftmanship http://www.origenae.co.kr/en/htpc_s10v.htm

No offense to the above cases, I just don't see $400, or even $200 there. But these are my opinions.
 
s3 was awesome looking.

s3 mini looks like rubbish. but all those vents are probably due to lack of airflow over components
 
Diverge said:
No offense to the above cases, I just don't see $400, or even $200 there. But these are my opinions.
Click to expand...

$432 was the quoted cost to build per unit in the USA given by the designer. To me that also seems absurdly high but I bet most of it was due to the low volume and custom tooling.
 
prava said:
IMO, that design is nothing compared to your first one, and I think other people would agree with me:

uIWcml.jpg


The one you are posting here seems too raw... and too racing. I simply don't like that hole pattern at all. The one I've posted? Simply ASTONISHING.
Click to expand...

I would ditch my ISK-300 that my firewall is in for one of these in a heartbeat...
 
Interested on what heatsinks one can fit on that thing. I suppose watercooling with an external rad would work.
 
prava said:
IMO, that design is nothing compared to your first one, and I think other people would agree with me:

uIWcml.jpg


The one you are posting here seems too raw... and too racing. I simply don't like that hole pattern at all. The one I've posted? Simply ASTONISHING.
Click to expand...

Sexy :eek:
 
Hey guys. My name is Josh and I am the guy responsible for the S3 Elite and S3 Mini.

Trying to launch the S3 Mini has been a stressful adventure, and not one I am quite ready to deem a failure although right now I am stuck on two roadblocks:

1. Cost to get an S3 from paper to a customer's door.

2. Proving the market actually wants the S3 (capabilities and tradeoffs).

For those of you who are interested, I can tell a story to elaborate. :)



I was thrilled to see that only a few people who looked at the S3 Elite hated it. My designs are usually quite polarizing. :) At the same time I was barraged with input from various forum members, LAN attendees, and hardware manufacturers. Only a fraction of the input meshed with the design goals at the time:

1. No compromise on fit & finish
2. Smallest form factor possible to allow for fluid gaming at 1080 (Television res)
3. Silent and well integrated footprint for desk or cabinet

Most of the people who loved the chassis wanted to stick in absurdly powerful hardware that would negate 2 and 3. I am not against awesome hardware, but rather I was against size and heat. Most people from what they described would be much better suited to a SUGO, Lian Li HTPC, or, now, the excellent Mercury Labs S3 --of which the name am I only not fond of. ;)

Again, I am not a snob who wants to dictate how people would use my chassis, but it is important to understand that in a box that is the size of a ream of standard printer paper has to make many compromises.

The second major challenge was price. I have had many, many people tell me that my manufacturing costs were absurdly high. It is certainly fair to compare the S3 chassis in features and materials to other cases and be shocked at the price difference if value is the main concern. Unfortunately value offered has nothing to do with my costs. I'm just a sole proprietorship that specializes in design, not a large manufacturing company. I do not own a manufactory like some larger case MNFs, and I cannot afford tooling for a Chinese company let alone commit to a "small" run of 1,000 units. :(

So I have to do things the old fashioned way--work with machinists, sheet metal fabs, and waterjet cutters. There are steps in the process for the S3 Elite and S3 Mini that are done with machines, but they are human operated and billed as such--in the U.S. To complicate things I needed to work with companies that understood what "impeccable surface finish" meant. I learned the hard way that you cannot expect just any sheet metal shop to deliver perfectly brushed and anodized panels.

Eventually I did find the right companies to deliver around 20 prototypes. This took pretty much all of my savings but seeing the project through was a passion I needed to quench :)

From there I tried to get more bids from various MNF reps who laughed at how expensive the system was and were quite cocky in their ability to manufacture them cheaper. Not a single one bested my research. The S3 Elite's front is milled from a solid block of 6061T aluminum. The body of both systems are 6061T--I wanted a hard material that was scratch resistant...5052 would have been much easier and cheaper to work with. In addition getting the vents TIG welded in was costly, and having the right tooling to do the ultra precise bends for the PCI slots and tabs limited who could fully complete the process. Then there were the press-in standoffs which further limited one stop shopping.

In the end only aerospace manufacturers had all the capabilities I was looking for to get the S3 Elite done, and the price for each in runs of 20 was about 300 dollars--quite reasonable considering the cost of materials, staged machine time, bending, fastener joining, welding, surface prepping and the anodized process...

...but I also needed the special ribbon cable. I haven't talked much about it but I didn't want to use PCB for various reasons. The part cost to me was expensive, and that was with me finding a few other companies who could use it. We teamed up and got some made. Then I had the power supply and brick developed and made. I eventually handed it off to another company. Anyways...

The bottom line is that the cost just added up. By the time I had a S3 Elite boxed up and ready to ship my costs were already close to $630 and I still had no profit added in for my labor and research/dev time. Having anything done from scratch custom is expensive, and when you are pursuing quality it gets worse. I designed a similar system-the S3 Mini, in attempt to make the cost reasonable, and was successful in some ways, but without having the money or confidence to pursue a run of at least 500 I still am stuck. Plus some people love the design and (quite necessary venting) and others, have likened it to rubbish. :)

So there you guys have it. That's my story thus far. :)
 
Appreciate the update. Are some fine looking designs. I think it's easy to underestimate exactly what goes into designing a good computer case.
 
NFC, I'd love to know where you got that PCIe ribbon -- I've been looking for a full-height one that was shielded and flexible enough to do what you've done here.

Thanks!
 
NFC, imo, I think the ONLY way to launch anything in to market would be to work with already-existing companies. You said it yourself: its impossible to hire different companies for so small orders because the bill skyrockets like there is no tomorrow.

What am I suggesting? Try to find a big company, like the NCASE Team are doing, to build the case for you. Sure, you will lose some quality, but price will be lower, and you will be able to sell a higher volume... which I'm sure one of your goals is to see people having a case that you worked so hard to deliver, am I right?
 
Machupo, the ribbons are custom. Email,me for some info. Thanks.
 
Oh man, don't listen to those crazies that want to stuff oc'ed everything in there, and watercooling.... they have plenty of cases to choose from. lol
 
NFC said:
Most of the people who loved the chassis wanted to stick in absurdly powerful hardware that would negate 2 and 3.
...
it is important to understand that in a box that is the size of a ream of standard printer paper has to make many compromises.
Click to expand...

I totally get it. I've "lived" with a computer in an Antec ISK 300-150 for almost a half year as my only computer.

That's probably why the Bitfenix Prodigy is so popular - it is a huge and ugly case, but it allows almost no compromises (no SLI/Xfire and no ginormous array of HDDs).

The Ncase M1 is supposed to be a (almost?) no compromise small-as-possible with the highest end hardware possible. Of course with so many cooks in the kitchen...

NFC said:
To complicate things I needed to work with companies that understood what "impeccable surface finish" meant.
...
The S3 Elite's front is milled from a solid block of 6061T aluminum. The body of both systems are 6061T--I wanted a hard material that was scratch resistant... <SNIP>

...but I also needed the special ribbon cable.
Click to expand...

You want people to understand "compromise" in the size of the case, but you won't "compromise" the materials and look?

I see two easy "compromises" that will make it simpler for this case to be done at a reasonable cost.
1) Flip graphics card around. Case is standing up, so no reason for it to suck air from same side as the CPU fan. Those using it horizontally can just use thicker feet. Propping it up 1cm will probably be enough airflow. This will allow the use of cheap off-the-shelf PCIe angle adapters.
2) Get a company (Lian Li) experienced in aluminum to produce the case using their methods, and accept their decisions on materials to use, and fit/finish.

I don't know how much your PSU cost would be (brick + internal PCB, right?) but the case + PCIe would easily end up around $100 or less per unit for a small production run. The Ncase M1 I mentioned earlier sells for $205 shipped (when it does) and it is a much more complicated design.

Of course this is all an intellectual exercise as I would likely never buy the Ncase M1, nor the S3 Mini. Reason for not liking the Ncase M1 is too many compromises (they're trying to please everyone). Reason for not liking the S3 Mini is that I am not a fan of external power bricks. There are other reasons too, but those are the major ones.

Best of luck to ya!
 
Hey Zap, thanks for the comments.

I would be very grateful if you could point me to some of your manufacturers who could get me closer to that price point.

Having worked with Lian Li in the past, they consider a cargo container too small an order--naturally I am looking for much smaller runs.

I wanna get the S3 mini started up and maybe a run of 50, but the price is too steep for me to fund let alone offer to potential buyers.

Here are a few new pictures of two Minis
 
Case looks awesome! Now, I just need to figure out:
- How to get my hands on one
- How to add an x51 psu in addition to what you have in that one opened-up shot... thinking lid mount. (I need right around 300W for my setup @ full throttle)
 
NFC said:
Hey Zap, thanks for the comments.

I would be very grateful if you could point me to some of your manufacturers who could get me closer to that price point.

Having worked with Lian Li in the past, they consider a cargo container too small an order--naturally I am looking for much smaller runs.

I wanna get the S3 mini started up and maybe a run of 50, but the price is too steep for me to fund let alone offer to potential buyers.

Here are a few new pictures of two Minis
Click to expand...

Looks like a GTX660ti or 760 mini would fit! I'm assuming only room for 1 or 2 2.5" drives? I like it!
 
Daemos said:
Looks like a GTX660ti or 760 mini would fit! I'm assuming only room for 1 or 2 2.5" drives? I like it!
Click to expand...

Two 2.5" drives as long as they are under 9mm thick (90% of all new slim drives fit in this category). Most SSDs these days are 7mm thick.

Both those cards can fit--chassis supports 7.4" of total card length (remember to account for power plug!).

Machupo said:
Case looks awesome! Now, I just need to figure out:
- How to get my hands on one
- How to add an x51 psu in addition to what you have in that one opened-up shot... thinking lid mount. (I need right around 300W for my setup @ full throttle)
Click to expand...

I have a couple suggestions!

Firstly, have you confirmed the power draw with meter? My i7 3960X with a 7970 pulls 350 watts wide open--at 4.2Ghz Your system might be more or less, but those parts would be hard to cool in such a small box anyways!

If you did need more power and you could manage the thermals, the old Xbox 360 power brick can be had for about 15 dollars shipped. Technically they support 175w, but because they are built well and have a fan in them I push them at 220w for some of my bigger systems quite safely.

If you needed the massive 330w that the Alienware brick puts out, you can find them on ebay and various other sites around the net. You just need to swap out the power connection inside the chassis, which can be done usually with a RadioShack stop.

Again, my opinion is this kind of power draw defeats the purpose of a tiny system like this, which plays games on a TV great at 1080p with an i5 and a 7770--and does so quietly. :)


AFD said:
What brand & gain (2dB, 5dB) RP-SMA antennas are those?
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They are just your standard 3dB antennas. Couldn't tell you what brand, I by bulk from a reseller. :confused:

mihawk said:
I guess price of used NH-l9i will raise
Click to expand...

;) The NH-I9i works OK, but the mini Silverstone cooler works the best because it doesn't dump the heat polarly--which means it ends up smashing against the ram. Another good cooler for the S3 is the CNPS2X. I have tested every cooler that will fit.

Thanks guy for the comments. Keep in mind this isn't business for me, it is just my hobby and passion. I would love to get them into the hands of people who want them, but it's not my day job. :)

QsP7oL5h.jpg


YjKVIJPh.jpg
 
Nice looking case.

I'm a little confused though. Is the larger case completely nixed, or simply put by the side to get the Mini out?
 
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