Rumor zen3+ cancelled

gigaxtreme1

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The focus this year may be the APUs. Volume of the newer APUs may be the best use of the AMD fab time that they have, currently. Alder Lake has yet to appear except in this leak. Is it cherry picking season yet?
 
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So when is Zen 4 going to be released? Late 2022?

AMD needs to focus on improving supply for the 5900x and 5950x first.
 

Red Falcon

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CPU growth is a joke compared to what it used to be. I might just stay on my 2016 build for the rest of my life at this rate.
The last time CPU growth was a joke was in 2016 before AMD released ZEN - specifically thanks to Intel for stagnating the industry due to its anti-competitive and anti-customer stance, and due to AMD's then-lack of competitive products.
AMD has been extremely competitive since 2017, and Apple/ARM has been competitive since 2020.

Not sure where you are coming from with that statement, especially since we have seen massive growth in CPU performance in the last few years alone.
 

JSHamlet234

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The last time CPU growth was a joke was in 2016 before AMD released ZEN - specifically thanks to Intel for stagnating the industry due to its anti-competitive and anti-customer stance, and due to AMD's then-lack of competitive products.
AMD has been extremely competitive since 2017, and Apple/ARM has been competitive since 2020.

Not sure where you are coming from with that statement, especially since we have seen massive growth in CPU performance in the last few years alone.
I meant compared to the early 2000s and prior. I should have been more clear about that. In 1999, I built a balls-to-walls Athlon/600 machine. I spent $5000 of money that I made at a rate of $7.50/hour. By 2004 it was getting smoked by mid-range laptops. That would never happen today.
 

Centauri

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I meant compared to the early 2000s and prior. I should have been more clear about that. In 1999, I built a balls-to-walls Athlon/600 machine. I spent $5000 of money that I made at a rate of $7.50/hour. By 2004 it was getting smoked by mid-range laptops. That would never happen today.
So you're saying a 6700K wouldn't get thrashed by a mid-range Ryzen 9 laptop right now? I disagree.
 

JSHamlet234

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So you're saying a 6700K wouldn't get thrashed by a mid-range Ryzen 9 laptop right now? I disagree.

That's not what I said at all.

I said an Athlon/600 in 1999, which cost $700 (which adjusted for inflation would be $1100). The equivalent CPUs in 2016 would be a 5960X(1H)/6900K(2H), not a 6700K.
And I said a midrange laptop in 2004, so back then that would have been a Pentium M at 1.6GHz, today it would be a Ryzen 5 or i5.
 
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Centauri

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You can get a Ryzen 9 laptop for just over a grand. I'd consider that pretty midrange.
 

JSHamlet234

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OK, but I don't know if you're getting my point (or if I'm conveying it properly). A TDP-limited Ryzen 9 laptop is not going all-out destroy a barn-burning 5960X or 6900K desktop. It would do a nice job of hanging with it, maybe even beat it by a bit, but what I'm talking about was pure carnage. A Pentium-M at 1.6GHz absolutely demolished my 5-year old Athlon/600 (which was overclocked to 750MHz).

I'm just saying, these are different times.
 

KD5ZXG

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WTF are you talking about? We have seen more performance improvement in consumer CPUs over the past 4 years than we've seen since the early 2000s.
I even built a one bit five relay arithmetic logic unit hot glued to a popsicle stick.
Clocked fast as you might bang on the desk to unjam the moving parts.
All designed on 1st gen Ryzen too I might add. No progress my ass...
 
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RanceJustice

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This wouldn't be unexpected given the limitations AMD has been fighting against to even keep the Zen 3 / X570 items in stock. If Zen3+ wasn't a big change in design and was betting on 6nm processes to be available which looking at the way things are going they may not be at the end of this year, then sure it makes perfect sense to cancel it. Hopefully this means they'll focus all their efforts on Zen4 and it will be a major leap forward, perhaps coming earlier than it would have otherwise arrived - say early or mid 2022 vs late.

We know that Intel's next push for AlderLake is the first big change they've made in years, with the "BIG.little" core architecture and apparently USB4 and PCI-E 5.0. No idea how it will compete on raw performance in the x86-64 arena on things like general use and gaming vs high end AMD Zen3 chips, but we'll have to watch and wait. If AMD is doing the same thing, they can then more quickly respond with Zen 4 on 5nm process. However, I do admit it is frustrating that AMD is "stuck" lacking things like USB 4 / Thunderbolt 4 support on their current platform for even longer and such things will get even worse with AlderLake arriving. I wrote earlier about Cezanne-U APUs not even having PCI-E 4.0 which is disappointing and I wish that AMD would have moved forward spec-wise with the refresh of mobos associated with Zen 3 , so if they're going to take longer before their new platform it would massively behoove AMD to ratchet up the features on new things like APUs and test/fab add-on cards for existing X570 boards to add things like USB4 40gbps support.
 

Red Falcon

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OK, but I don't know if you're getting my point (or if I'm conveying it properly). A TDP-limited Ryzen 9 laptop is not going all-out destroy a barn-burning 5960X or 6900K desktop. It would do a nice job of hanging with it, maybe even beat it by a bit, but what I'm talking about was pure carnage. A Pentium-M at 1.6GHz absolutely demolished my 5-year old Athlon/600 (which was overclocked to 750MHz).

I'm just saying, these are different times.
Yeah, the days of 200-800% performance gains per CPU iteration cycle have been gone since the 1990s - I get what you are saying, and it is way past time to get over that issue.
In the supply-limited world we have found ourselves in as of late, and having a desktop or laptop that can literally last over a decade for general usage is quite a bit better than having a desktop or laptop that is totally useless and obsolete within a year or two.

As for the 2000s, there were still high performance gains happening, but they were more around 20-40% gains at most.
That was 15-20 years ago, and your complaint, as valid as it may be, is at least decade too late; in other words, you should understand that incremental performance gains come with the territory of modern computing since the 2010s, and should know and understand that by now.
 

LukeTbk

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He just wants to argue.
I feel it is you that is arguing, I am agreeing that a top end CPU like a 6900K is not getting trashed by even a top end 2021 laptop.

But that feel bit extreme to judge progress in the modern era.
 

JSHamlet234

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To be fair, I don't expect us to ever return to Moore's Law. Back in the 90s, everyone had a different prediction of how or why it would end, and sure enough it did.

My comment, "CPU growth is a joke today" was just a reaction to the news that AMD was cancelling a new release. I was disappointed by that news. I recently built a 5800X for someone, and while it's an awesome machine and faster than my 5960X by a nice margin, I decided that the difference wasn't big enough to justify the expense for myself. On the other hand, I'm dying to build something just to build it. The last thing I wanted to hear was that the next-gen Ryzen was getting cancelled or delayed. I apologize for taking this thread off-topic.
 

Krenum

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D6whfroW4AAYDQm.jpg
 

paradoxical

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To be fair, I don't expect us to ever return to Moore's Law.

I think Apple will set a new version of Moores law, but about performance instead of transistors. I have a variety of machines, including a 9900K system, a 3990X Threadripper, and an Apple M1 Macbook Pro.

The Threadripper system is Godlike; nothing can touch it. But to be completely honest, for everyday tasks including video editing in Premiere Pro, I can't tell a difference between the M1 and my 9900k. My fucking 13 inch laptop crunches 4k video just as well as my 9900k desktop, and the fan doesn't even spin. The M1 is just a ridiculous feat of engineering, and while the 9900k is still technically faster in some tasks (especially running native x86 software vs Apple running through emulation), I expect the upcoming M1x to wipe the floor with every single Intel desktop processor except maybe the HEDT stuff - but do it in a 14 inch laptop.

Buckle up, Apple and AMD are bringing the heat over the next couple years.
 

TheSlySyl

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I was hoping for a 6000 series 16+core as a forever end-game for my wonderful AM4 build, mostly because I know it would be a drop-in upgrade from my 3000 series. But even if my forever end-game is just a 5950X i'll still be happy. I'm not planning on upgrading to an AM5 build for quite a while due to what I'm expecting to be insane prices for DDR5 RAM and processor shortages.
 

Kalessian

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The last time I bought a high end new CPU was Core2Duo launch. Since then, I refused to pay more than $150 for any single part so I buy CPU and GPU after a year delay on a deal or used. This strategy has always worked great saving me money until this past year. I can't even upgrade my HTPC from Ryzen 1200 to 3600 like I wanted to since I still refuse to pay more than $150.
 

Axman

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Care to TL;DR?

There was a plan to have something else come on around 4Q 2021 but all that's been (most likely) scrapped. The two main possibilities were both basically Zen 3 refreshes, either with one being a final, last AM4 grand stand, or an AM5 part for early adopters. AMD is not moving fast enough on DDR5 to make the latter happen, and the former is basically guaranteed dead.

Also that the Zen 3+ may have been an idea on paper, but it never went far past that. Not to say that there weren't (or maybe still aren't) plans for a Zen 3 refresh, just not what the rumor mill was going on with over Zen 3+ talks.

Makes sense to sell what they got, because it will sell, and dump the R&D into Zen 4 and 5.
 

Mega6

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There was a plan to have something else come on around 4Q 2021 but all that's been (most likely) scrapped. The two main possibilities were both basically Zen 3 refreshes, either with one being a final, last AM4 grand stand, or an AM5 part for early adopters. AMD is not moving fast enough on DDR5 to make the latter happen, and the former is basically guaranteed dead.

Also that the Zen 3+ may have been an idea on paper, but it never went far past that. Not to say that there weren't (or maybe still aren't) plans for a Zen 3 refresh, just not what the rumor mill was going on with over Zen 3+ talks.

Makes sense to sell what they got, because it will sell, and dump the R&D into Zen 4 and 5.
There's not a hell of a lot of R&D in a slight IPC bump. More than likely it's already done but Intel's lack of enthusiasm doesn't make it even worth the small effort to swap lithographs.
 
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Lumpus

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I suppose that it makes good market sense to drop Zen 3+, with all of the current and projected silicon shortages this year. I only just finally was able to buy a 5900X last week and as a customer I would find it more than slightly irritating to start hearing about yet more new product launches when most of the 2020/21 crop was still pretty much Unobtainium. AMD can save their fab allocations for products they can sell now... while tossing the extra resources/manpower into an earlier release to Zen4. It could also be that the early engineering results from Zen4 were so promising that it was worth expediting, making Zen3+ a distraction, at best.

I'm good with this, now that my last AM4 system is done. Now I can stay out of the upgrade loop for at least another year or more... until GPUs become sanely priced again.
 
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