Rewards system for FAH donors

Grandpa_01 said:
There are many reasons bit currencies will have a hard time, #1 reason being any government can make it illegal to trade in at any time they wish. What good is it if you can not buy anything with it or trade it for a backed currency. There are too many people such as myself that have no faith in it and look at as nothing more than a hand full of people trying to figure out a way to circumvent taxes and working for a living.

In reality only a very small % of the population of the world are involved in the bit currency industry, and the actual cash value of bit currency = 0 if there is no where to trade it for goods and services. People can dream all they want about getting rich running a computer crunching hash marks all they want but until they get some kind of backing from government's and banking institutions it is just that, a dream.

Don't get me wrong it may happen some day that they do get some sort of credible backing and there will undoubtedly be a few who do make some real money doing it. But for now the vast majority will never see any real profit.

Anyway I do see a value to foldingcoin as a way to add a little fun to F@H and to encourage a new user base for DC projects. And who knows some day these foldingcoins may be worth something at least they are being used for doing something good for humanity rather than trying to tear it down.

This in my belief has the greatest chance to increase the donor base for DC projects of any of the bit currency endeavours I have seen to date. (that is if they can figure out a way for people to be a member of any team they wish) and letting us old farts keep their name. :D

It does have the possibility of adding some credibility and popularity to the bit currency industry. Which would be good for the developers of FoldingCoin ;)
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Once again Grandpa you are proving to focus on the criminals of the world taking advantage of a new technology. Bank robbers made away easy when cars came out, Hitler used the printing press for anti semitic propaganda, the KKK had a public access TV show when TVs first came out, child pornography and sex slaves where born due to the internet along with mass identity theft and cyber theft, the list goes on forever. Whenever something is invented certain people WILL USE IT FOR EVIL!!!! This does not mean the masses will or the technology is evil. I can tell you what, if people wanted to use BTC for tax evasion they MUST KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING just like they must with the US dollar. Ask the guy from Silk Road how it panned out for him (and on that note the next guy running Silk Road 2.0 was just arrested as well) he got caught just like most big time criminals due. Also do you know how many small business contractors in the construction industry get away with tax evasion? Try every single person I have ever worked with. People running a shop out of their garage as a cash or check only business never pay their taxes. The next time you call a plumber and he is self employed, know that he probably doesnt pay all his taxes. But with BTC remember everything is recorded in the blockchain. If you use your BTC with even one retailer, anyone could find out who you are much easier than they could with cash. Cash is non tracable, BTC is SUPER traceable. Your listening to much to the general media that tells your BTC is drug money, its simply not true. BTC is the opposite of anonymous, its 100% traceable.

As for what can you buy with it? I transfer my pay checks to bitcoin. I can get everything from GYFT, eGifter, Overstock, BitcoinStore, TigerDirect, ext with my Bitcoin. I even eat at Steak N Shake and buy a gift card at 6% off with BTC. The ONLY thing I cannot buy with my BTC is my bills, other than that, i dont spend US dollars anymore. The list keeps growing. (also as a side note, I have convinced about 75% of my servers at a restaurant to accept BTC as their tip and they usually go for it lol)

Thank you for the kind words about FLDC, I am glad to see that you do at least see the value in our coin, but i hope one day you see the value in BTC as well :) When I go full time I will be working extra hard on trying to find a solution to the name issue, but so far even on this forum we have not heard any creative solutions to our problem, so at least we know its not just us. We are open to anyones ideas on how to verify a donor if anyone wishes to post them as a comment, it would be appreciated :)
 
Gilthanis said:
Well, as much as I love arguing. Could we get back to the original topic and debate crypto in general over in the crypto forums? I know I'm guilty of getting side tracked too, but this really isn't helping. Those whom are interested should continue to ask questions about FoldingCoin. Those not interested, should please keep it at least on topic of FoldingCoin specifically.
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I am so incredibly guilty about continuing the crypto conversations, when someone asks me something about the legitimacy of crypto though it is kind of relevant. Crypto is a very hard thing for people to grasp their minds around because its such a unique way of using money. Weather your a supporter of BTC or not, that statement holds try, its unique.

So I guess when people are wondering about this FLDC they already have some sort of interpretation as to why BTC is bad or wont work so therefor they assume that FLDC is bad or wont work.

This is kind of a hard topic to not involve BTC in the topic but once again Gilthanis is right, it needs to stay focused on FLDC. Anyone can email me [email protected] and I will talk all day with you about BTC :)
 
PookTwo said:
Once again Grandpa you are proving to focus on the criminals of the world taking advantage of a new technology. Bank robbers made away easy when cars came out, Hitler used the printing press for anti semitic propaganda, the KKK had a public access TV show when TVs first came out, child pornography and sex slaves where born due to the internet along with mass identity theft and cyber theft, the list goes on forever. Whenever something is invented certain people WILL USE IT FOR EVIL!!!! This does not mean the masses will or the technology is evil. I can tell you what, if people wanted to use BTC for tax evasion they MUST KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING just like they must with the US dollar. Ask the guy from Silk Road how it panned out for him (and on that note the next guy running Silk Road 2.0 was just arrested as well) he got caught just like most big time criminals due. Also do you know how many small business contractors in the construction industry get away with tax evasion? Try every single person I have ever worked with. People running a shop out of their garage as a cash or check only business never pay their taxes. The next time you call a plumber and he is self employed, know that he probably doesnt pay all his taxes. But with BTC remember everything is recorded in the blockchain. If you use your BTC with even one retailer, anyone could find out who you are much easier than they could with cash. Cash is non tracable, BTC is SUPER traceable. Your listening to much to the general media that tells your BTC is drug money, its simply not true. BTC is the opposite of anonymous, its 100% traceable.

As for what can you buy with it? I transfer my pay checks to bitcoin. I can get everything from GYFT, eGifter, Overstock, BitcoinStore, TigerDirect, ext with my Bitcoin. I even eat at Steak N Shake and buy a gift card at 6% off with BTC. The ONLY thing I cannot buy with my BTC is my bills, other than that, i dont spend US dollars anymore. The list keeps growing. (also as a side note, I have convinced about 75% of my servers at a restaurant to accept BTC as their tip and they usually go for it lol)

Thank you for the kind words about FLDC, I am glad to see that you do at least see the value in our coin, but i hope one day you see the value in BTC as well :) When I go full time I will be working extra hard on trying to find a solution to the name issue, but so far even on this forum we have not heard any creative solutions to our problem, so at least we know its not just us. We are open to anyones ideas on how to verify a donor if anyone wishes to post them as a comment, it would be appreciated :)
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Ummm I think you may be focusing on the criminal element a little more than I am, I never once mentioned it in what I wrote that you are replying to here. :eek:

And you are very limited to where you can purchase from, I know I can not walk into the local grocery store or any other store I know of in my area and buy anything with bit currency, I can't buy gas for my car, food or any of the other staples to sustain my daily living locally. I choose to support my local economy as much as possible it is kind of along the lines of the made in America thing. :)

Just a few things bit currency is lacking are
#1 Lack of Government backing as I mentioned above it can be made illegal to trade at any given moment.
#2 Lack of any kind of insurance thus very risky to use as a savings of any type thus not a very good investment.
#3 Not taxed thus no type of social support or saftey net for socity of any type.

#4 Not accepted at the vast majority of goods and services outlets.

It just is not possible to have a stable and viable economy without these things and the odds of a bit currency getting them are somewhere between extremely slim and none.

I will say that right now the majority of people will not invest in bit currency and without the support of the majority of the public it will not be a viable alternative to the current monetary system.

I am not saying that these things will not happen some day, I am saying I will not hold my breath in anticipation of them happening.
 
Grandpa_01 said:
Ummm I think you may be focusing on the criminal element a little more than I am, I never once mentioned it in what I wrote that you are replying to here. :eek:

And you are very limited to where you can purchase from, I know I can not walk into the local grocery store or any other store I know of in my area and buy anything with bit currency, I can't buy gas for my car, food or any of the other staples to sustain my daily living locally. I choose to support my local economy as much as possible it is kind of along the lines of the made in America thing. :)

Just a few things bit currency is lacking are
#1 Lack of Government backing as I mentioned above it can be made illegal to trade at any given moment.
#2 Lack of any kind of insurance thus very risky to use as a savings of any type thus not a very good investment.
#3 Not taxed thus no type of social support or saftey net for socity of any type.

#4 Not accepted at the vast majority of goods and services outlets.

It just is not possible to have a stable and viable economy without these things and the odds of a bit currency getting them are somewhere between extremely slim and none.

I will say that right now the majority of people will not invest in bit currency and without the support of the majority of the public it will not be a viable alternative to the current monetary system.

I am not saying that these things will not happen some day, I am saying I will not hold my breath in anticipation of them happening.
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When people bring up the "no taxes" argument that tends to go in line with the criminal aspect. But it is not tax free, just like a regular business you must claim BTC as capital. It is just as easy to be tax free for a cash only business, same concept. When you receive a paycheck the taxes have already been taken out for that week and your income has been reported to the IRS by your employer. BTC would work the same way. If you work somewhere, it is up to the business to supply that reporting.

For example: I just talked to our lawyer about paying people to do coding in FLDC and BTC. He said we will need to start filling our 1099's when we pay people in BTC or FLDC. So since we are officially a company, we will have to supply to proper tax forms for the people that we pay and we must report them. Since we are a non profit the donations we receive will not be taxed (just like any other charity) but when we pay people for services, BTC works just like the dollar, Uncle Sam wants his cut
 
PookTwo said:
When people bring up the "no taxes" argument that tends to go in line with the criminal aspect. But it is not tax free, just like a regular business you must claim BTC as capital. It is just as easy to be tax free for a cash only business, same concept. When you receive a paycheck the taxes have already been taken out for that week and your income has been reported to the IRS by your employer. BTC would work the same way. If you work somewhere, it is up to the business to supply that reporting.

For example: I just talked to our lawyer about paying people to do coding in FLDC and BTC. He said we will need to start filling our 1099's when we pay people in BTC or FLDC. So since we are officially a company, we will have to supply to proper tax forms for the people that we pay and we must report them. Since we are a non profit the donations we receive will not be taxed (just like any other charity) but when we pay people for services, BTC works just like the dollar, Uncle Sam wants his cut
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My question to you after saying all of this.
When someone joins your team to fold and earns FC, and they make over 600$ would that mean you have to file a 1099 since the folder is earning coins for producing points for your team? I know 600$ is the magic number for the IRS.
I have buildings and have a guy mow the grass and plow the snow. He has his own business and pays his own taxes and I still have to file a 1099 to the IRS stating how much I paid him. I would think earning 600$ in coin the payer of that coin would have to file a 1099, no?
 
Bill1024, crypto currencies aren't deemed money/currency by all government agencies until actually converted into an acknowledged one or into a product/service. So, you may want to consult your tax specialist on this one.
 
There is a IRS FAQ file (PDF) on a lot of this stuff:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

Reading some of that content, it would appear that the IRS expects you to convert the value to US Currency when the value of the (mining in this example) becomes an "asset" of some sort. Like trading stocks, you generally have to report the gain/loss when you sell and have realized something.

Q-5: How is the fair market value of virtual currency determined?

A-5: For U.S. tax purposes, transactions using virtual currency must be reported in U.S. dollars. Therefore, taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied.

and...

Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?

A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable income.

IMO, this could be a tax reporting nightmare depending upon several factors. Record keeping, correct (or any at all) issuance of 1099 forms, understanding how to correctly report the value based on how the "currency" is used, etc, etc.
 
402blownstroker said:
If it is like trading stocks, can I report my losses: ie electrity bill?
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I would think so, I would also think hardware costs too since you can't fold or mine with out hardware.

Gross income minus expenses = net income. Net income is taxed.

He did say he is paying people to code for him, (with coins) and he now has to file 1099 forms.
They then would have to report that.
I am thinking he is paying people to fold and would have to file one for them too.
IRS is cracking down on sub-contractors, are they really subs or are they employes.
The difference is payroll taxes SS tax andall that fun stuff.

When you buy or sell stocks they want to know how much you paid and how much it sold for. They also want to know what brokerage firm you did the business with.
Also true of interest and dividends, list payer and bank/brokerage firm.
My brokerage firm files a 1099 on my gains and loses.
 
Well...You also have to look at that extremely large grey area. One tax consultant will tell you something completely opposite of another. But when it comes down to writing off hardware, they usually tell me that if it is used for anything else, it is considered personal use and has 1 of 2 results. 1. You can't write it off or 2. You have to show how much was used for personal and how much was used for the "business/income generation". So, if you claimed this as a home business, technically internet and "office space" can be deducted. But, you are again getting very much into a grey area and can be argued until your face turns blue while waiting for Mr. IRS tax man to come verify and make judgement.
 
Yes, there is still plenty of "grey matter" when it comes to the IRS and crypto-currency. We can rest assured that our "fiends" at the IRS will work on every way to milk as much revenue as possible from any new way that people find to make money. :rolleyes:

On taking tax deductions for things used at the home or portions of your home, just watch that fine print stuff. Things like what happens (and what you may owe the IRS) if you sell your home and have been taking a deduction for a portion of your home for business use.
 
texinga said:
There is a IRS FAQ file (PDF) on a lot of this stuff:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

Reading some of that content, it would appear that the IRS expects you to convert the value to US Currency when the value of the (mining in this example) becomes an "asset" of some sort. Like trading stocks, you generally have to report the gain/loss when you sell and have realized something.

Q-5: How is the fair market value of virtual currency determined?

A-5: For U.S. tax purposes, transactions using virtual currency must be reported in U.S. dollars. Therefore, taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied.

and...

Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?

A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable income.

IMO, this could be a tax reporting nightmare depending upon several factors. Record keeping, correct (or any at all) issuance of 1099 forms, understanding how to correctly report the value based on how the "currency" is used, etc, etc.
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You have this spot on with the exception of the last part where Miners have to report the currency when it is created. This would cause a nightmare for the big BTC mining firms as the price is so volatile that they would need to sell instantly in order to stay afloat. If they had to claim lets say BTC at $400 today but it was worth $300 tomorrow that would be an incredible loss. They follow under the same guidelines that they must claim it as they sell it.

One big difference though is the miners coins are 100% taxable when its sold as they themselves created it. As for someone who buys crypto needs only to report the difference of gains/losses from the original amount that they purchased the crypto at.
 
Gilthanis said:
Well...You also have to look at that extremely large grey area. One tax consultant will tell you something completely opposite of another. But when it comes down to writing off hardware, they usually tell me that if it is used for anything else, it is considered personal use and has 1 of 2 results. 1. You can't write it off or 2. You have to show how much was used for personal and how much was used for the "business/income generation". So, if you claimed this as a home business, technically internet and "office space" can be deducted. But, you are again getting very much into a grey area and can be argued until your face turns blue while waiting for Mr. IRS tax man to come verify and make judgement.
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You are correct. I would not recommend trying to write off your hardware as a purchase. The electricity however I would say should forever only be written off as a tax exemption for donating resources to FAH. Then pay full taxes on FLDC should it ever become valuable enough for the IRS to pay attention.

At this point in the game only a handfull of cryptos are being watched closely:
Bitcoin, Dogecoin, Litecoin, Swarm, Storj, NXT (and all assets), and the second big one behind BTC is Ripple. Their may be more to the list but this is what I am aware of at this point. Most all other coins are considered what BTC was considered 2 years ago, simply experimentation with the new ideas of the cryptocurrency technology.

Two things are for certain right now though:
1. Crypto is a grey area in general when it comes to regulations and taxes, nobody knows
2. Crypto will eventually have regulations and taxes, everybody knows
 
texinga said:
Yes, there is still plenty of "grey matter" when it comes to the IRS and crypto-currency. We can rest assured that our "fiends" at the IRS will work on every way to milk as much revenue as possible from any new way that people find to make money. :rolleyes:

On taking tax deductions for things used at the home or portions of your home, just watch that fine print stuff. Things like what happens (and what you may owe the IRS) if you sell your home and have been taking a deduction for a portion of your home for business use.
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I agree and disagree with your first paragraph. The part I agree with is The IRS will try every way to milk crypto for all it is worth. The part I disagree with (even though you didnt directly say this) is the IRS must be careful when doing this. Unlike the money system now where transactions are done behind closed doors, anyone who knows how to read a blockchain will be able to trace the money very easily over time.

So with that being said: If people are unhappy with government stepping in, they FIND ALTERNATIVES. If governments destroy the current cyrpto setup of a traditional blockchain, more stealthy coins such as BTCDARK will begin to take their place within the tax evasion world. Then the governments will not see a dime and things can start to get real really quick. I highly recommend listening to this entire discussion from Andreas Antonopoulos (mr bitcoin) and the Canadian government. It goes over alot of what we have all been discussing and is extremely valuable to listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUNGFZDO8mM
 
We have updated the OP. Please take the time to read this. Now we have 6 cryptos that can be earned on our platform :)
 
Thanks pooktwo for setting all this up, it certainly is very interesting! I'm still trying to get my head around this, something for nothing deal though. I've setup a new client and followed all the instructions etc. and it's folding, sending and receiving work units from pg, but how does this result in me getting these coins? Pandegroup isn't handing them out so I'm a bit confused by it all! Sorry for the noob question, I've never had anything to do with crypto stuff before and all the readings I've done make my head hurt haha.
 
terrabyte89 said:
Thanks pooktwo for setting all this up, it certainly is very interesting! I'm still trying to get my head around this, something for nothing deal though. I've setup a new client and followed all the instructions etc. and it's folding, sending and receiving work units from pg, but how does this result in me getting these coins? Pandegroup isn't handing them out so I'm a bit confused by it all! Sorry for the noob question, I've never had anything to do with crypto stuff before and all the readings I've done make my head hurt haha.
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Thanks for replying! It is a tough concept to wrap your head around. I have plans tonight, but in the morning I will layout a quick detailed explanation on the benefits of crypto. As long as you have set your username up according to our instructions, you will begin to receive your tokens everyday. Sometime we get to them at 2am EST but sometimes it can be delayed to 5pm EST, but they will come everyday,

Cheers :D
 
Hi Pooktwo, that sounds good! I'm not complaining that I haven't received any coins :). I'm just wondering how the coins come to exist in the first place! So that explanation sounds mighty handy haha. Cheers,
 
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