Retrofit a 30" LCD, changing it from matte to glossy?

neks0ne, that looks awesome, great work! But I think you left out some details. Just putting glass in front of the LCD wouldn't get rid of the sparkle from the AG coating. So, before doing this, did you remove the AG coating (e.g. using the wet paper towel process)?

Were you able to make the glass actually stick / optically bond to the LCD surface, or is there an air gap between?

BTW, Nurf, I apologize for not doing that third measurement yet. Will do it soon.
 
Hello- Yes, I posted this on my ipad so I didn't get to in depth. I cleaned it heavily with a "rough" papertowel.

I basically used the work model of apple- they use simple glass over matte lcd. In fact- I were to do it again, Id by a 16:10 ratio so that I could just buy iMac or cinema display glass.
 
I don't understand your comment about the paper towel. Removing the AG coating involves soaking the LCD with paper towels wet with distilled water, for many hours, then removing the paper towels and pealing off the AG coating. What did you accomplish by "cleaning" the LCD with your "rough papertowel"? I don't understand.

Simple glass over a matte LCD won't get rid of the sparkle. There's nothing to fill in the microscopic valleys and it will leave an air gap. If Apple puts their glass over a matte LCD, they must be using some kind of adhesive in-between.

This is, unless I'm missing something really major in my understanding of optics.

Did your rig actually get rid of the matte sparkle? I kind of assumed it did (because otherwise what would be the point of glossy?), but now I'm wondering.

Did you use an adhesive?
 
Nurf, did you make any progress with the Type B immersion oil?

MetaGenie said:
Well, after sitting for 7 days, the MXA + immersion oil is reducing noise to 36.1%, compared to 30.3% after just 1 day. So basically it got 16% worse after sitting for 6 extra days. Subjectively it still looks good.
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I finally did another measurement, and 20 days after being applied, the MXA + immersion oil is reducing noise to 35.5%, which means there's no significant difference from how it was after 7 days. But subjectively I can see a tiny bit of sparkle noise.

Next I'll try the 1.520 and 1.522 Refractive Index Liquids. Maybe they'll be such a good match that even after partially evaporating (or whatever is going on) they'll still reduce noise below the visible threshold.

Note: Most LCDs besides mine probably have cooler surface temperatures, so standard immersion oil should be a better match. It's only because mine has a surface temp of 37-43°C that I have to compensate.

Edit: Tried the 1.522 liquid. It works beautifully... reduces sparkle noise to 20.7%. Of course now I have to leave it on for a week and see if it degrades. The MXA sample is getting more and more damaged... there are now four places along the edge where its adhesive has peeled or is peeling.
 
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I've had my sample stuck on the screen since I last wrote and only now has it _almost_ stopped leaking oil. This probably means I'd have to keep the frame off for quite some time when applying a film to the whole screen in order to let the oil "stabilize" or risk having oil all over my desk/in my screen.

I managed to get the air bubbles out fairly easily when using more oil, but some dirt remains under the film.
I dont't see any sparkly noise but I do see a slight yellowish tint on whites. I doubt I'll ever notice it with the film applied to the whole screen but it's still a little annoying to know it's there.
 
Your sample is actively leaking oil, even after you cleaned it away from the edges? Does the sample slide when you touch it? For me, with Type A Immersion Oil, leaking only happened with sliding, and the sliding stopped after one or two days. With Refractive Index Liquid there was no sliding even at the beginning. I didn't have a dirt problem with either of these.

Maybe it's a fault of the Type B Immersion Oil that it leaks for so long, but if it doesn't reduce in effectiveness with time (evaporation or whatever that is) then maybe it's worth it.

Did you try rubbing the oil onto the LCD instead of the MXA film, and putting the film onto the oiled LCD with the film still being clean?

I was actually planning on putting a full-size piece of film onto my LCD without removing the frame. I'd like to avoid disassembling this $1000 LCD if I can avoid it (especially if I can't find a how-to published by somebody else who's done it).

Yes, the yellowish tint is disappointing, but will surely be unnoticeable when the whole screen is that way. It comes from the blue being darkened a tiny bit (99.2%), green being brightened a bit (101.7%) and red being brightened a bit more (103.8%). HEA2000K-clear performs better: blue 102.8%, green 104.0%, red 104.7%. To my eyes that doesn't look tinted.
 
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Just removed the sample. I could still slide it, though with more resistance than when first applied.
I'll probably use type A or the refractive index liquid you mentioned. How much did that cost you?
 
After 8 days, MXA + 1.5220 Refractive Index Liquid reduces noise to 28.8%. It was reducing it to 20.7% the same day it was applied, so it's now 28% worse... which is still just as good as Scotch Packaging Tape (and slightly better than freshly applied MXA + immersion oil).

I wish I knew whether the "evaporation" is equivalent to lowering index of refraction, or if it's more complicated than that... if it's the former, I could compensate just by getting a Refractive Index Liquid of higher index.

Nurf said:
Just removed the sample. I could still slide it, though with more resistance than when first applied.
I'll probably use type A or the refractive index liquid you mentioned. How much did that cost you?
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Before you give up on the Type B immersion oil, I would really recommend trying the alternate way of applying it... put the oil on the LCD first, and then put the cleaned MXA sample on top of it.

Each 7.4 cc sample of Refractive Index Liquid cost me $21. I got two of them (1.520 and 1.522). A 120 cc sample of Type A Immersion Oil cost me $14.85. Shipping was $11.60.

If you want to try Refractive Index Liquid despite the expense, I would suggest first measuring the temperature of your LCD at the brightness you most often use. I doubt yours will be 43°C like mine; it'll probably be colder. I used an infrared thermometer (the cheapest ones are about $20). I'm not sure if there's any other reliable way to measure it. Tell me the temperature and I'll calculate what index you need. (The temperature on an edge-lit LCD varies depending on height, so take the temperature in the center.)

EDIT: I cleaned my sample and applied the other Refractive Index Liquid (1.5200) but used five drops this time (whereas with the 1.5220 I used three drops), and the sample took longer to stop sliding. But one hour later it is slide-resistant.
 
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The 1.5200 turned out to reduce noise better than anything else so far: 19.2% (at 43°C) with the MXA film over it. This suggests the index I'm trying to match is a bit closer to 1.513 than to 1.515. Next I'll try a 1.521 mixture, and see if that works even better.

It looks like Cargille Laser Liquids may not have the pesky problem of shifting / reducing in effectiveness after a week. However I'm not sure yet if it's possible to obtain a small amount at a price that makes sense for our application. I haven't ordered any yet.
 
meta-

Lesson learned. I used to like my modification, then I read the thread in it's entirety. Then I started reading lumen labs information on this subject. Now I've ruined one of my LCDs, spent around 1k on shuffling my arrangment of LCDs, and now I'm using (happily) vg236h. Good day sir! I also learned that apple uses no ag coating' then applies the glass. Might be an option for you...

In all seriousness, great thread, I've educated myself a good bit through yours, and others research. Gl in your quest.
 
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