• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Retrieving data from an early-'90s PC

S

Shay Guy

n00b
Joined
Apr 15, 2011
Messages
9
My family still has the first computer we ever got, which was in 1992. I was 4 at the time. It's been a very long time -- seven years as a lower bound, but could be ten or even more -- since it was booted up; I'm not even sure we have a power cable for it. I haven't been able to find out what kind of PC it is beyond "one that ran DOS and Windows 3.1," but I've taken some pictures:

Front
Top part of the front, including two floppy drives and one CD-ROM drive, the only modification we ever made (and which got stuck and thereafter never worked after like a month)
Closeup of said CD-ROM drive, just to highlight something I hadn't realized until a few days ago, but which amused me
Midsection of the front
Closeup on the only real identifying marker on the case, which has proven useless so far
Side view of the front

Back
Top part of the back, featuring a fan and two spots for power cords, one inverted for some reason I can't fathom
Bottom half of the back
Blurry closeup on the middle of the back, with something I thought was an S-Video plug, but am not so sure about now

We'd very much like to be able to retrieve the data stored on the computer, but I don't know what to expect regarding the hard drive's state. Like I said, it's been years since we last turned it on -- I don't even know if it'll still work. If it does, and if the data on the hard drive is in reasonably good condition (again, I don't know how likely that is), how can I get it off the hard drive and onto one that's newer? After all, it was made before USB had even been thought of. Should I consult a professional, or is this a project I can do on my own? I've never built a computer from scratch or done anything more complex on the hardware end than installing a wireless card. (I think. There might've been one computer that came "some assembly required.")
 
http://www.buy.com/prod/2-5-3-5-sat...ng/q/sellerid/18700237/loc/101/216681245.html

Just plug the hard drives into an IDE hard drive dock like this and plug it into any modern PC. Problem solved. :)

And FYI, that "inverted" power cord could be used to plug a monitor in with the proper cable. I used to do that all the time at my first job with ancient equipment. You didn't have to do it that way though, you could plug in the monitor with a standard power cable if you wanted to. You only need the standard power cord to plug in the PC too.

That "S-video" connector is a DB9 (I think) connector for a keyboard.

Edit: Good point from jalaj. I'm almost 99% certain those drives are IDE, but good idea to be certain by getting a picture of them, particularly the back.
 
Yep. An old AT keyboard plug. The mouse was probably serial rs232. That thing probably still runs too. Dang, old 5 1/4in floppy too - heh.
 
How big is the hard drive? serial to serial (null modem) cable should work. You can get USB to serial adapters quite cheap. Find some terminal software (Win3 used to have some) and transfer away. It'll be done in a few weeks.
 
The big circular connector is a standard AT style 5 pin din (NOT A DB9) keyboard connector. Very common on machines with AT style motherboards (that is most machines from before ATX). You can get adaptors to hook up PS2 keyboards to them (though I suspect they are harder to buy than they used to be).

As "FIX ME" says the "inverted" power connector is a power outlet. This could be used to power the monitor and in pre-ATX machines was usually switched by the power switch. This switching was a useful feature in the days before monitors could shut themselves off on no-signal. When ATX came out with it's soft on the outlet sockets were no longer switched and soon dissapeared completely from most PSUs (though one still occasionally sees a cheap end PSU with one). Someone once told me that they were removed for safety (that is to stop idiots overloading them) but I don't know if that is true or if it was just penny pinching.

Assuming the hard drive is IDE (it probablly is) pulling the hard drive and attatching it to a more modern system (either directly or via a USB to IDE adaptor) is probablly the easiest way to get the data off but before you do so boot the machine up, go into the BIOS and write down the hard drive settings just in case the drive is so old that modern boards can't autodetect it.
 
You know, when I started writing this, there were only two replies.

jalaj said:
pull out the hard drive and take pictures of that
Click to expand...

Fix Me said:
http://www.buy.com/prod/2-5-3-5-sat...ng/q/sellerid/18700237/loc/101/216681245.html

Just plug the hard drives into an IDE hard drive dock like this and plug it into any modern PC. Problem solved. :)

...

Edit: Good point from jalaj. I'm almost 99% certain those drives are IDE, but good idea to be certain by getting a picture of them, particularly the back..
Click to expand...

Note my words:

I've never built a computer from scratch or done anything more complex on the hardware end than installing a wireless card. (I think. There might've been one computer that came "some assembly required.")
Click to expand...

Translation: I'm really anxious about taking this thing apart. I've never removed a hard drive from a computer unless both were known to be dead. I don't know what I need to do to avoid damage -- are there any aspects of that that aren't readily Googlable?

Fix Me said:
And FYI, that "inverted" power cord could be used to plug a monitor in with the proper cable. I used to do that all the time at my first job with ancient equipment. You didn't have to do it that way though, you could plug in the monitor with a standard power cable if you wanted to. You only need the standard power cord to plug in the PC too.
Click to expand...

Cool -- sorta like charging with a USB port today.

So there's no reason I can't grab a generic power cable and make it work? Nothing about the shape of that particular plug that would make it hard to find a fit? Sounds good to me.

Fix Me said:
That "S-video" connector is a DB9 (I think) connector for a keyboard.
Click to expand...

*wiki google more wiki more google*

5-pin DIN, it looks like. Wow, have I really gotten so accustomed to USB that I forgot about that*? Am I going to forget what purple and green PS/2 connectors are for next? ...Well, OK, those have icons.

*The connector's purpose, not its name; I barely know any of those.

Tak Ne said:
How big is the hard drive?
Click to expand...

What, physically or storage-wise? Not a clue on the latter.

Tak Ne said:
Find some terminal software (Win3 used to have some) and transfer away. It'll be done in a few weeks.
Click to expand...

What, you mean like this?

plugwash said:
Assuming the hard drive is IDE (it probablly is) pulling the hard drive and attatching it to a more modern system (either directly or via a USB to IDE adaptor) is probablly the easiest way to get the data off but before you do so boot the machine up, go into the BIOS and write down the hard drive settings just in case the drive is so old that modern boards can't autodetect it.
Click to expand...

More stuff I don't know about... Google Is My Friend, I take it?
 
Shay Guy said:
You know, when I started writing this, there were only two replies.





Note my words:



Translation: I'm really anxious about taking this thing apart. I've never removed a hard drive from a computer unless both were known to be dead. I don't know what I need to do to avoid damage -- are there any aspects of that that aren't readily Googlable?
Click to expand...
The only way you're going to break something is if you drop the hard drive on the ground. Unscrewing it and removing the cables from it aren't going to hurt it. There should be screws on both sides of the hard drive cage, remove (I assume) four screws that attach the drive to the cage and the IDE cable and power cable from the back of the hard drive and you should be able to remove the drive. Googling or looking up a video or two on youtube can't hurt if you're uncomfortable taking it apart.



Cool -- sorta like charging with a USB port today.

So there's no reason I can't grab a generic power cable and make it work? Nothing about the shape of that particular plug that would make it hard to find a fit? Sounds good to me.
Click to expand...
Yep, any normal power cord will work.

\*wiki google more wiki more google*

5-pin DIN, it looks like. Wow, have I really gotten so accustomed to USB that I forgot about that*? Am I going to forget what purple and green PS/2 connectors are for next? ...Well, OK, those have icons.
Click to expand...
Yeah, my bad, it's a 5-pin DIN. I had forgotten all about those too until I saw the pic. lol
 
The fastest and easiest way to do this is to connect via external ide-to-usb adapter. You shouldn't even have to remove the drive if you don't want to - just open the case, put it next to your newer computer, unplug the drive, and connect the adapter between them. You can get them for less than $20. Get over your wariness and dive in.
 
Last edited:
Shay Guy said:
You know, when I started writing this, there were only two replies.
Note my words:
Translation: I'm really anxious about taking this thing apart. I've never removed a hard drive from a computer unless both were known to be dead. I don't know what I need to do to avoid damage -- are there any aspects of that that aren't readily Googlable? ...
Google Is My Friend, I take it?
Click to expand...

Don't have to be too apprehensive about doing unfamiliar things anymore. You can find instructional videos online to do just about anything if you're willing to try and provided that you have the right tools. Like minor plumbing issues, changing brake pads, how to grill a steak, etc..
Here's a youtube clip on removing hard drives from a desktop
The hardest part sometimes is figuring out how to get to the mounting screws holding the hard drive.
 
Last edited:
OK, then, things I'm going to need:

1) Anti-static wrist strap
2) IDE-to-USB adapter
3) DIN-to-PS/2 adapter (if I'm planning on doing some BIOS tinkering)

Plus a screwdriver, extra power cord, keyboard, and monitor, all of which I have, along with maybe the camera to keep track of what I'm doing. I think the spare monitor I'm thinking of uses a VGA outlet. The ones I don't have, listed above, I couldn't find at Best Buy, so I guess I'll buy them online -- the prices I've found don't seem too costly for any of them, with #2 being the most expensive (and like Monkey34 said, still under $20).

Anything I'm missing?
 
I won't discount the bad mojo from static electricity - heck, I killed one of the first computers I opened by stupidly touching the motherboard while I had it on - but I've stripped and built dozens since then and never wore the anti-static strap after my second build.........and never fried anything.

I suppose the $2 is worth feeling better.;)
 
I'd suggest copying everything off the hard drive the first time you boot it up as there's no guarantee 15 year old rotational drives will power/spin up an indefinite number of times (if they work at all) and it'd be a shame to needlessly loose that data if you value it.
 
Why is this even being discussed this thoroughly? It’s an IDE drive. You pull the IDE drive out and attach it to another computer. Pull the data off it. Done. There's no easier or simpler method.
 
The computer still works! Or at least, it boots; I only went as far as the DOS prompt and didn't try starting Windows. plugwash, I wasn't sure exactly which settings I'd need, so I just took a picture of the BIOS screen.

I found the hard drive -- it's the center, center-right black thing you can see the left edge of. It is indeed an IDE drive, a Western Digital Caviar 2170 to be exact. Thing is, I'm having trouble getting it out -- I can't find any screws on the other side and the whole thing seems pretty cramped, especially with the cables and the topmost of those horizontal circuit boards (I think the one that has the DE9M and DB25F connectors). Are there guides out there for navigating this kind of morass?
 
Remove the two screws above the center support rail (on the tabs), and the rail itself. The drive and floppy will come out along with the assembly they are screwed into. There might also be a screw or two under the front plastic face-panel helping to hold it in place.....necessitating the removal of the front panel.

That Hard Disc C line in the bios is the info you want to keep (cyl, heads,sectors,etc). You uploaded the screenshot, so you are good there.
 
Attaching via IDE or an IDE-to-USB adapter to simply copy files is the best scenario. Ignore any suggestions for migrating settings from such an old machine.

Slightly off-topic...
Good throw-back pics of that machine. Reminds me of past times with QBasic, Doom Editor Utilities (DEU), the Crusader series, and Tie-Fighter.
 
Monkey34 said:
Remove the two screws above the center support rail (on the tabs), and the rail itself.
Click to expand...

No good. The rail looks like it's welded in place. I get the feeling these things weren't designed for easy replacement of parts.
 
Shay Guy said:
No good. The rail looks like it's welded in place. I get the feeling these things weren't designed for easy replacement of parts.
Click to expand...

You will probably have to drop it then.

You may need to remove the large card below the "cage" that the drive is in (sound card it looks like)........and the tan plastic fan cover.
 
Hey, remember this old thread?

I've had this project on my back burner for more than three years, but I finally decided to get serious about it again. And guess what? Today, I finally got that hard drive out!

Pic 1
Pic 2

The power connector gave me a hard time for a while, but I finally managed to pry it out. Using this gadget, I was then able to hook it up to our family's current PC. There's just one catch, though...

The computer's not recognizing it.

It shows no signs of awareness that anything's plugged into the USB port in front. The drive's powering up and everything, and I've double-checked to make sure that it's plugged into the USB port, but nothing's happening on the computer's end. The drive just keeps whirring until I flip the power switch.

I can think of two possibilities offhand. One is that the drive is dead -- if so, it probably has been for a decade. (I wonder if this is what Gaimon felt like...) The other is that there's a software problem, in which case it's probably outside the scope of this forum. Either way, thank you all for helping me get this far... though if anyone could help me get a little further, I wouldn't say no. :)
 
Does the HDD have a jumper pin? Check to make sure it's on the right one now.

You might need some software to read what format the drive is written in. I'm not sure if FAT32 was around back then. IIRC, FAT32 was developed somewhere in the mid 90s, not early 90s. So you might need some sort of software that can read whatever file system the drive is written in.
 
PTNL said:
Reminds me of past times with QBasic, Doom Editor Utilities (DEU), the Crusader series, and Tie-Fighter.
Click to expand...

Wow. Someone else here remembers the good ole days of QBasic and DEU!

Remember DWANGO?
 
Skillz said:
Does the HDD have a jumper pin? Check to make sure it's on the right one now.

You might need some software to read what format the drive is written in. I'm not sure if FAT32 was around back then. IIRC, FAT32 was developed somewhere in the mid 90s, not early 90s. So you might need some sort of software that can read whatever file system the drive is written in.
Click to expand...

A decent linux live cd would be able to see the files.
 
Skillz said:
Does the HDD have a jumper pin?
Click to expand...

I'm... not sure? Here's what the back looks like right now. There's a space for one tiny cable to plug in, between the power and IDE slots.

Skillz said:
You might need some software to read what format the drive is written in. I'm not sure if FAT32 was around back then. IIRC, FAT32 was developed somewhere in the mid 90s, not early 90s. So you might need some sort of software that can read whatever file system the drive is written in.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Wikipedia dates FAT32 to 1996. So a computer built in 1992, running DOS with Windows 3.1... I don't know what file system that would be using. FAT16B is my best guess.
 
Shay Guy said:
I'm... not sure? Here's what the back looks like right now. There's a space for one tiny cable to plug in, between the power and IDE slots.



Yeah, Wikipedia dates FAT32 to 1996. So a computer built in 1992, running DOS with Windows 3.1... I don't know what file system that would be using. FAT16B is my best guess.
Click to expand...

Fat16 is no longer supported in Win7. You'll need something running XP or less to be able to read it. If you have a modern hard drive floating about, try using a sata drive just to make sure the USB adapter is working.

As for those 4 pins, those are typically the Master/Slave settings for IDE, you need it to either be on Master, or the automatic setting, typically, it will tell you what the different settings are on the top of the drive.

Good Luck!
 
Rav3n said:
A decent linux live cd would be able to see the files.
Click to expand...

Yeah it should. I'd give Knoppix a try. See if I could mount it to view the files then transfer them to a different file system.

I wonder how hard it would be to create a Virtural System of the old rig with the HDD.
 
One week later...

Got Knoppix running from a DVD. Have the old hard drive plugged in and powered up. Am unable to find any evidence Knoppix realizes the drive is there. Am dearly hoping I haven't somehow damaged the drive.
 
It could be that the drive is not compatible with the usb to IDE adapter. I have seen that many times before.

The really old IDE drives can be a real pain to get working.
 
Have you tried just plugging it into a modern Windows OS? Odds are its formatted FAT16 which should be readable from any modern windows version still.

Even if it had a virus or something on it, it probably wouldn't work with newer non-DOS based OS's.
 
Well Windows 7 should still recognize the hard drive even if it's in FAT16, but since Windows 7 dropped support for FAT16 it will just ask you to format the drive first. Since it's not doing this I am inclined to believe that the adapter isn't working correctly or the drive is dead.

Since Linux wont even see the drive I continue to think that it's a bad drive and/or the adapter isn't compatible with the drive.

What was the reasoning for not booting the computer up in the first place?
 
Apologies for the late reply...

Skillz said:
What was the reasoning for not booting the computer up in the first place?
Click to expand...

God, I don't even remember. I have a vague memory of trying to boot it to Windows and having the process stop with the computer continuously making an error noise... I want to say a square wave, around 200 BPM? 180?

I don't know if I'd be able to put the computer back again; I had to remove two cards to get to the hard drive. And I don't even know if it's possible to recover data from a hard drive that's been dead God-knows-how-many years, let alone an IDE drive, or how much it'd cost.

I guess this is the end of the line, then? It's the Gaimon scenario after all? Man, and this computer was practically my entire childhood.

Thank you all again, for all your help.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top