Retailers See HD Format War Dragging On

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While fans of both formats have repeatedly declared “victory” for their HD favorite format, retailers are painting a much different picture.

While the announcement was seen as tipping the balance of power in favor of the Blu-ray format, retailers at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this week did not see the announcement as a definitive sign of a clear winner.
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So Blu-ray struck a blow when they won Warner Bros. over last week, but what happens when HD-DVD takes the next logical step and drops HD-DVD players down to where Sony can’t go? (sub-$99 and $13 movies?).

It pisses me off that both parties started out working together, and they could theoretically still kiss and make up. Instead they are going this route. This could drag on for a long time :(
 
Sure they are... they want to sell all the equipment they have created already for HD-DVD.
 
I hope neither format "wins out." The best solution is dual format players. They may cost more initially, but they will go the same route as DVD+-R and Sony won't be able to gouge everyone on media.
 
Steve said:
So Blu-ray struck a blow when they won Warner Bros. over last week, but what happens when HD-DVD takes the next logical step and drops HD-DVD players down to where Sony can’t go? (sub-$99 and $13 movies?).

It pisses me off that both parties started out working together, and they could theoretically still kiss and make up. Instead they are going this route. This could drag on for a long time :(
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Yeah and then watch Fox and Disney jump over to HD DVD. Trust me at the end of the day these companies want to sell as much of their product as possible.
 
Steve said:
So Blu-ray struck a blow when they won Warner Bros. over last week, but what happens when HD-DVD takes the next logical step and drops HD-DVD players down to where Sony can’t go? (sub-$99 and $13 movies?).

It pisses me off that both parties started out working together, and they could theoretically still kiss and make up. Instead they are going this route. This could drag on for a long time :(
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Nowhere?

You really are having a hard time seeing Blu-Ray win, arent you? I read another article with quotes from the CES of retailers whispering about the impending death of HDDVD.

"What's more, word is starting to circulate at CES that major big box retailers will begin winding down in-store support for HD-DVD as soon as these studios go public with their decisions. We're told that the industry's major retail partners are already pressuring Paramount, DreamWorks and Universal to go Blu following Warner's decision."

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
 
Everyone can quote me on this too. Everything behind the scenes is happening so fast, HDDVD simply has no way to recoup at this point. There isnt enough time to lower player prices and change the scenery. Deals are being struck as we speak to bring Paramount and Dreamworks over. There wont be anything dragging on. Can't believe people still honestly believe it. This is just fodder to keep the arguments over the format war "alive".
 
how is sony swaying all these companies over to their camp??? What does sony get from all this, other than selling the players??
 
mjz_5 said:
how is sony swaying all these companies over to their camp??? What does sony get from all this, other than selling the players??
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They get, potentially, the mainstream media for the next years and what comes from that. Sony backed out once before (not Betamax) and saw a huge lose, but this time they want to win and are doing what they can, properly this time, to ensure a victory.
 
I really don't know why anybody is claiming victory. Blu-ray may have support from 70% of the movie studios, but until the adoption rate of HD media drastically impacts DVD sales, it's all a bunch of marketing FUD.
Sometimes I think that all consumers are getting shafted since so many people can't suppress the "Oh, shiny!" impulse and we let companies dictate how products are sold to us. Yeah, I know that it's up to everyone to buy something or not as their conscience dictates, but this "war" shouldn't have happened. Do you really think that Warner Bros. made this decision to change camps solely to make things easier for the consumer?

[Ducks his head and waits for the oncoming Blu-ray DRM onslaught.]
 
Why do people consider bluray "Sony". I see all these posts of people referring to "Sony", rather than blu-ray, yet it's not "Sony" technology or proprietary.
 
It is two stage victory.

Stage one is what we are discussing: Winning is being the only HD format and momentum will snowball on this. Look at CES and you see everyone getting in on the Blu Ray player actions, only Toshiba is making HD DVD players. Blu Ray has hardware backing and studio backing and is selling more movies. All the momentum is on BR side. Throw in the realization that another killer title may have just gone BR. That would be LOTR. Just about the must have HD disk set IMO.

Stage two is more gradual transition over from DVD to HD. That will take some time, but really it is building. Once HD-DVD is crushed it will really pick up pace.
 
4saken said:
Nowhere?

You really are having a hard time seeing Blu-Ray win, arent you?[/url]
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Huh??? Are you talking to me or the author of the article and the companies at CES making these statements?

If you have some sort of inside track to the industry that we don't or your sources are better than ours, PLEASE share with us this information. The ONLY thing for sure out there right now is confusion and pissed off retailers.

Please share this "behind the scenes" info you have that counters what retailers are saying. We are all anxiously awaiting the insight you can give from this info.

Besides, the only thing we have said is that winning the format war doesn't mean your format will be a success. Plenty have had the market to themselves before and died a slow painful death. If HD-DVD / Blu-ray beats each other...they still need to win the public over.
 
Adoption rate is slow because there are two formats. People don't want to spend $400 to buy two players so they can watch movies from each, so they are waiting for one format to become the standard.

Once a format "wins", manufacturers will have to compete with each other to make the best player / price, and the consumer will end up with better, cheaper players and media.

The movie studios are going with the format that is selling more, which has been Blu-Ray.
 
All this really means for the average consumer is that they still won't buy the hardware until prices come down.

Blu-Ray could have 100% of the market, but 400$ players are not selling to anyone but die hards.

Hell, I have had an HDTV since 2002, and bought the Samsung SIR-TS160 receiver for 600$ in 2003 just to get a few HD channels. Worse mistake of my life. Very little HD content was avail then...

Fast forward 4 years, I bought a Toshiba HD-A2 for 99$ only because it was 99$ and could play HD-DVD and upscale my current DVDs.

I have yet to purchase any HD-DVD due to costs. I am much happier using netflix and the limited HD PPV on Dish.
=========================================
Would I go out and spend 400$ on a blu-ray? Nope, bring them down to 150$ or less and I might.

Im an early adopter of technology, yet even though I buy the new stuff, I have decided to wait until the format war is over, or the players are cheap enough, hence the reason I bought the Toshiba.

Think mom and pop smith are going to plop down 400$ either with all of the confusion?
 
one word: duh

The real winner can only be dual format player.

One ring to rule them all... I mean one player to rule them all.
 
4saken said:
Everyone can quote me on this too. Everything behind the scenes is happening so fast, HDDVD simply has no way to recoup at this point. There isnt enough time to lower player prices and change the scenery. Deals are being struck as we speak to bring Paramount and Dreamworks over. There wont be anything dragging on. Can't believe people still honestly believe it. This is just fodder to keep the arguments over the format war "alive".
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How did I know you'd be in here spewing Blu-Ray propaganda?

Oh b/c you love BR.

Still too early and too few players to call a winner. See my previous post for my prediction of the real winner.
 
Steve said:
Huh??? Are you talking to me or the author of the article and the companies at CES making these statements?

If you have some sort of inside track to the industry that we don't or your sources are better than ours, PLEASE share with us this information. The ONLY thing for sure out there right now is confusion and pissed off retailers.

Please share this "behind the scenes" info you have that counters what retailers are saying. We are all anxiously awaiting the insight you can give from this info.

Besides, the only thing we have said is that winning the format war doesn't mean your format will be a success. Plenty have had the market to themselves before and died a slow painful death. If HD-DVD / Blu-ray beats each other...they still need to win the public over.
Click to expand...

I posted a link from a guy at CES who had said retailers were talking about dropping HDDVD in the very near future, hence, not dragging it on, which does sound to be the opposite of what the articles author said.

I dont think there is any confusion now. Much less if anything. Everyone now knows and is starting to decide not to bother with HDDVD, that is everyone but the few who just wont let it go.

The eventual "winner"(blu-ray) of this war will be successful, inherently, through all the sales of new HDTVS which are finally starting to reach the masses. Through the PS3, through standalones that will be as affordable as cheap dvd players. These will all be purchased along with the new shiny HDTV they bought. Just as we all originally bought new DVD players that could do progressive, or upscale when we first all purchased HDTVs. Its just an evolution of that, that gives you the option to buy Blu-Ray/HDDVD format discs on top of normal dvds. I have little doubt the standard format will take off.

My inside track is keeping informed on many avforums, blogs, blu-ray forums, hddvd, forums, etc, etc.

But like i said, quote me on this, by the end of February, there will be no more confusion. Feel free to refer back to the post if in 6 months HDDVD is still somehow dragging on. Its just not possible at this point.
 
4saken said:
My inside track is keeping informed on many avforums, blogs, blu-ray forums, hddvd, forums, etc, etc.
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Ahhh, I see. From the statements you were making and terms you used, you made it sound like you had some magic inside track that none of us had.

....nevermind.
 
Like I said before I may own a PS3, but I don't care who wins as long as there is a winner! Its like when we got dvd burners for the PC a while back, we all argued about which one was better but in the end dual format won out, hell I still don't know if they declared a winner. I don't see that here as a dual format will be to expensive to the average consumer. There really is still time for either format to win, most people have no idea what a blueray or hd-dvd is! I'm going to guess that a HUGE percentage of people don't have an HD tv anyway so its all pointless to them anyway. People are starting to go HD now as thats the "in" thing and as HD gets hyped more and more on tv and the net I think there will be a big influx of buyers for an HD format but not just yet. I just hope we have a clear winner soon Blue, Red, purple or green I don't care and neither do most. If you already bought your player don't worry about it, you'll be out of date soon if not already and need to get a better one anyhow by the time a winner is chosen. Lets not forget 1080P will NOT be the last HD standard.
 
Like I said before I may own a PS3, but I don't care who wins as long as there is a winner! Its like when we got dvd burners for the PC a while back, we all argued about which one was better but in the end dual format won out, hell I still don't know if they declared a real winner. I don't see that here as a dual format will be to expensive to the average consumer. There really is still time for either format to win, most people have no idea what a blueray or hd-dvd is! I'm going to guess that a HUGE percentage of people don't have an HD tv anyway so its all pointless to them anyway. People are starting to go HD now as thats the "in" thing and as HD gets hyped more and more on tv and the net I think there will be a big influx of buyers for an HD format but not just yet. I just hope we have a clear winner soon Blue, Red, purple or green I don't care and neither do most. If you already bought your player don't worry about it, you'll be out of date soon if not already and need to get a better one anyhow by the time a winner is chosen. Lets not forget 1080P will NOT be the last HD standard.
 
4saken said:
I posted a link from a guy at CES who had said retailers were talking about dropping HDDVD in the very near future, hence, not dragging it on, which does sound to be the opposite of what the articles author said.

I dont think there is any confusion now. Much less if anything. Everyone now knows and is starting to decide not to bother with HDDVD, that is everyone but the few who just wont let it go.

The eventual "winner"(blu-ray) of this war will be successful, inherently, through all the sales of new HDTVS which are finally starting to reach the masses. Through the PS3, through standalones that will be as affordable as cheap dvd players. These will all be purchased along with the new shiny HDTV they bought. Just as we all originally bought new DVD players that could do progressive, or upscale when we first all purchased HDTVs. Its just an evolution of that, that gives you the option to buy Blu-Ray/HDDVD format discs on top of normal dvds. I have little doubt the standard format will take off.

My inside track is keeping informed on many avforums, blogs, blu-ray forums, hddvd, forums, etc, etc.

But like i said, quote me on this, by the end of February, there will be no more confusion. Feel free to refer back to the post if in 6 months HDDVD is still somehow dragging on. Its just not possible at this point.
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Sony isnt known for allowing their royalty rates to get low enough to make hardware cheap. It will be quite a few years before you see any blu ray players below $300.
 
Here's what I can't understand... someone please tell me...

Why do the standalone blu-ray players cost as much or more than a PS3?
 
You dual format player people are fooling yourselves. This will not "drag on forever" because RETAILERS won't support both formats forever. I don't know why this is a hard concept to grasp. Retailers don't want to stock both formats any more than studios want to produce both formats.

Here's whats going to happen:
Universal's current contract with HD DVD runs out at the end of January. Universal not long afterwards will either flip or go dual format.

Paramount is having far too many insider rumblings for flipping back to be remaining hd dvd. I see them flipping Blu as soon as they get the paperwork and planning sorted out.

All in all, another month or two.

Again: The retail channel will not continue to support an obviously dying format. I don't know why people in the hd dvd camp think they can warp the reality of this by just wishing it.
 
Spiritual Machine said:
Here's what I can't understand... someone please tell me...

Why do the standalone blu-ray players cost as much or more than a PS3?
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Because they want to break even or make a small profit on hardware. Sony takes a hit on PS3 hardware.
 
BoogerBomb said:
Sony isnt known for allowing their royalty rates to get low enough to make hardware cheap. It will be quite a few years before you see any blu ray players below $300.
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Now thats bullshit. There were players below $300 at Christmas. They will drop to sub $300 this year easily.
 
jmackay said:
Blu-ray players don't have cell processors though ;)
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I might be wrong, but I think the cost of cell production has gone down quite a lot in the last year. I remember reading bits and pieces of things, but I won't say for sure because I don't have a source I can cite.
 
I miss the edit button.

Either way - other retailers aren't producing the quantity of units in standalones that Sony is in the PS3.
 
BoogerBomb said:
Sony isnt known for allowing their royalty rates to get low enough to make hardware cheap. It will be quite a few years before you see any blu ray players below $300.
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Good thing Sony isnt blu-ray then right?

Another ignorant poster thinking BD = Sony
 
"Warner Bros.' decision last week to start making movies exclusively for Blu-ray players, rather than HD DVD, triggered an "out" clause in Paramount Pictures' contract with the HD DVD camp. An industry source said there was a significant possibility that Paramount would exercise that clause. It plans to decide within a month.
-digital bits citing LA Times
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#month

The fate of HD-DVD is not critical to the success of the Xbox 360, according to senior Microsoft officials, who have noted that the company would consider supporting rival technology Blu-ray if it were victorious in the high-definition format war.
-Next Generation
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8577&Itemid=2
 
4saken said:
Good thing Sony isnt blu-ray then right?

Another ignorant poster thinking BD = Sony
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Do you get some kind of satisfaction by denigrating others? That's just rude.

Instead of being rude, enlighten people with a post specifically outlining all the companies that took part in the creation of it, else your post just sounds like meaningless derogatory fanboy spam to me.
 
Yep, people need to really get over the Sony thing and get a clue when they talk about sony finally winning one. Did they forget:

A little thing called compact disc: co developed by sony/phillips.

Or the can remember DVD. That time sony/phillips were on a actually alone it one of two camps (almost another format war), but they were in the minority and joined the other standard after they agreed to take one sony/phillips element a more robust encoding scheme (which changed the single layer capacity from 5G to 4.7G, but gave us a more robust disk).

Remember the walkman? or when the Trinitron was THE TV.

And Beta vs VHS, well sony was again first to bring home video recording to market, they had the early lead, they screwed up by not opening up the licensing enough. JVC invited everyone to join their VHS standard.

Sony has delivered the goods again and again and has been a prime mover in consumer electronics for decades.

But most importantly this time Blu Ray is a majority-company standard, like all the previous standards since VHS. Sony was just the most obvious promoter. HD-DVD on the other hand is Toshiba going it almost alone, kind of like Sony with Beta. And they will fail and that was obvious for a long time. I really don't know what the Toshiba folks were thinking.
 
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