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Res/Pump Combo Bleeding Theory

U

USMCGrunt

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
3,103
Been reading a lot of threads here lately about people having issues bleeding their res/pump combo and have noticed that most of these combos have designs that direct water incoming to the resevoir towards the outgoing port to the pump. Someone mentioned that this improves flow rate and keeps the pump from having to pull in stagnant water from the res. So because of this design, I wonder if it would be easier to put a F fitting in the line (Like This) on an upward slope of the return line to streamline bleeding and keep the pumps from momentarily running dry. I question whether or not it would work because of how fast the water moves through the loop and if the air isn't currently at the top of the tube then it isn't gonna get out.

I know people use T lines (or at least used to) in place of resevoirs so the idea would somewhat work...just curious as to how effective you guys think it would be.
 
I'm sure it would help bleed it, but I even purchased that xspc res some people are having issues with and honestly other than it NOT fitting most silverstone cases flush, I thought it was a nice res for the money. On my previous case i used a Y fitting only to fill and bleed. It can work, but takes considerably more time to bleed, you have to be more patient and work with your pump speed and moving the case around to make it bleed completely. If i'd been using colored tubing i think it would have been more difficult as you can see the bubbles bleeding out in clear tubing.

I think the biggest issue with adding that fitting with a res is now u have 2 spots you'd need to potentially fill. If the tubing off that fitting gets low on water, you're introducing air back into your loop again.
 
Those XSPC tops can be a pain to bleed. I find tilting the case to be a big help. They aren't that bad though and once you get the majority of the air out it sort of just works its way out on its own.
 
Imitation said:
I'm sure it would help bleed it, but I even purchased that xspc res some people are having issues with and honestly other than it NOT fitting most silverstone cases flush, I thought it was a nice res for the money. On my previous case i used a Y fitting only to fill and bleed. It can work, but takes considerably more time to bleed, you have to be more patient and work with your pump speed and moving the case around to make it bleed completely. If i'd been using colored tubing i think it would have been more difficult as you can see the bubbles bleeding out in clear tubing.

I think the biggest issue with adding that fitting with a res is now u have 2 spots you'd need to potentially fill. If the tubing off that fitting gets low on water, you're introducing air back into your loop again.
Click to expand...

How about keeping that XSPC res outside of the drive bays while you are bleeding your loop? Would that make it easier to top off or to get all the air bubbles out?
 
x509 said:
How about keeping that XSPC res outside of the drive bays while you are bleeding your loop? Would that make it easier to top off or to get all the air bubbles out?
Click to expand...

If you have to have it outside the case to tilt in order to bleed that doesn't sound like a very good design to me...

XSPC's reservoirs are too wide for SS cases though (due to SS's tight tolerances and XSPC's looser ones). Nothing a Dremel can't fix though (that's what I did to mine).
 
FaRKle0079 said:
If you have to have it outside the case to tilt in order to bleed that doesn't sound like a very good design to me...

XSPC's reservoirs are too wide for SS cases though (due to SS's tight tolerances and XSPC's looser ones). Nothing a Dremel can't fix though (that's what I did to mine).
Click to expand...

SS case = ??
 
x509 said:
How about keeping that XSPC res outside of the drive bays while you are bleeding your loop? Would that make it easier to top off or to get all the air bubbles out?
Click to expand...

Well, I didn't have it fixed into my bays while bleeding. You need enough tubing to be able to slide it out to fill it every once in a while so it was barely sitting in the drive bays. I would turn the pump on while pouring water into a funnel to keep the level high enough for the pump. Seemed to work just fine. I wasn't really tilting my res at all, only the case a few times. I think that having my rads on the floor of the case, below the pump/res makes a big difference as all the air rises out of them more easily.
 
Ive been using xpsc res tops for 5+ years and they are not hard to bleed. You just leave the bleed screw off the top for 1-2 days, add more water, done. If you want to cut down the time , you can tilt or shake the case a few times to dislodge the air pockets. Doing this might stall the pump when a huge air pocket hits it so be ready to restart if this happens.
 
With my Swiftech Micro-Res V2, filling it was notoriously difficult in comparison to my current XSPC D5 tank. Usually, I'm not able to add the water fast enough, so as soon as air gets in the line from the pump to the reservoir, I have to shut off the pump in order to get water into it again.

With the D5 tank reservoir, that problem no longer exists. I just turn it on, and fill it as the water drops. Even when the water drops below the level of the pump port, all I need to do is fill it and it'll immediately start pumping again. No more needing to constantly turn on and off the computer. As for bleeding, I just let it work its way out over time and top it off as necessary. For me, it takes about a day or 2 for the big air bubbles to work their way out, and then small ones will occasionally come out over the next few weeks.
 
sok0 said:
Ive been using xpsc res tops for 5+ years and they are not hard to bleed. You just leave the bleed screw off the top for 1-2 days, add more water, done.
Click to expand...

ROFL! 1-2 DAYS??? That's a pretty terrible bleeding time. My XSPC bay res will bleed all the air out in less than 5min.

Tsumi said:
No more needing to constantly turn on and off the computer.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised you don't have a spare PSU you can just hook the pumps up to and turn them on and off that way. That's what I do. Do you leak test with the whole computer on?
 
FaRKle0079 said:
ROFL! 1-2 DAYSI'm surprised you don't have a spare PSU you can just hook the pumps up to and turn them on and off that way. That's what I do. Do you leak test with the whole computer on?
Click to expand...

Lol, yeah, I should get a spare PSU, but I've been too lazy to do those MIRs for the cheap PSU deals. And no, I did the paperclip method with everything except the pump disconnected.
 
I said 1-2 days with doing nothing but leaving the bleed screw off and said you could shorten the time by shaking out the bubbles. I can guarantee your res bay wont bleed in 5minutes without some serious tilting and shaking and even then I dont believe you. Sorry.
 
lol, this was not an attack on XSPC resevoir combos...just a generalized attack on the design of all res/pump combos. I have a Koolance combo and its a pain to bleed but to have to deal with a system with air in it for more then a couple hours is insane to me. It should be considered a design flaw if bleeding a system requires more then some effort in dislodging air by tipping your case around to get air to go up.
 
USMCGrunt said:
lol, this was not an attack on XSPC resevoir combos...just a generalized attack on the design of all res/pump combos. I have a Koolance combo and its a pain to bleed but to have to deal with a system with air in it for more then a couple hours is insane to me. It should be considered a design flaw if bleeding a system requires more then some effort in dislodging air by tipping your case around to get air to go up.
Click to expand...

I think it's just a lot of us have XSPC pump/reservoir combos due to their cost and integration with their kits ;) other pump/reservoir combos from other companies aren't as common.
 
Tsumi said:
I think it's just a lot of us have XSPC pump/reservoir combos due to their cost and integration with their kits ;) other pump/reservoir combos from other companies aren't as common.
Click to expand...

heh....maybe this is a get-what-you-pay-for type scenario then? :D
 
sok0 said:
I can guarantee your res bay wont bleed in 5minutes without some serious tilting and shaking and even then I dont believe you. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Try one for yourself: http://www.xs-pc.com/products/reservoirs/single-5-25-bay-reservoir/. The design effectively keeps small bubbles from re-rentering the loop due to the long flow path from inlet to outlet and the low clearance dam. I was quite impressed. Having dual 18W DDCs certainly helped force any air out of the loop too (but even with those my old MC-RES v2 couldn't bleed for squat).
 
FaRKle0079 said:
Try one for yourself: http://www.xs-pc.com/products/reservoirs/single-5-25-bay-reservoir/. The design effectively keeps small bubbles from re-rentering the loop due to the long flow path from inlet to outlet and the low clearance dam. I was quite impressed. Having dual 18W DDCs certainly helped force any air out of the loop too (but even with those my old MC-RES v2 couldn't bleed for squat).
Click to expand...

The differences here though is that yours isn't a pump/res combo. The downfall of these combos appears to be that, in order to improve performance, they have water incoming from the loop directed towards the outlet to go into the pump thus trapping a lot of air from being able to bleed out.

The resevoir you listed has a port centered on the res and then a port on the far side of the resevoir with some partitioning in order to disrupt the water flow and allow bubbles to escape the "pressure stream"

Now take a look at the ports on this:
ex-res-353_2.jpg


Notice that the inlet and outlet are very close to eachother and in fact, there is a partitioning on the resevoir to try and keep that high speed water flowing into the resevoir to redirect back into the pump, not allowing much opportunity for air trapped in the system to bleed out. If you look at a lot of these bay pump/res combos youll find similar designs in them.

Is the design so bad that it doesn't work? Of course not, if that were the case they'd never make it to market or people would badmouth the brand/model and poor sales would drop it off the market. Does the design make bleeding these things a little more difficult then standalones, sure does. Is there room for improvement....this uneducated asshole sure thinks there is :D
 
Do you guys have to bleed your loops that often that this is a major issue? At the end of the day it gives you better performance the other 99% of the time.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Do you guys have to bleed your loops that often that this is a major issue? At the end of the day it gives you better performance the other 99% of the time.
Click to expand...

If you're loop doesn't bleed well then you'll be dealing with the annoying sound of bubbles every time you turn on your computer.
 
FaRKle0079 said:
ROFL! 1-2 DAYS??? That's a pretty terrible bleeding time. My XSPC bay res will bleed all the air out in less than 5min.
Click to expand...
Which model?

I'm surprised you don't have a spare PSU you can just hook the pumps up to and turn them on and off that way. That's what I do. Do you leak test with the whole computer on?
Click to expand...

Everyone should have a spare PSU.
 
USMC, Take a look @ this picture of the MicroRes V2..
ex-res-144_3.jpg


I am running mine with that exact same setup, where the bottom port is feeding the intake of MCP 655B, and the upper "front" barb is my return..I have a 90 degree fitting @ the top that runs to my fill point on the top of my HAF 932...I have never had any trouble bleeding air, and I have two radiators in the same loop..

Notice how the internal "baffle" has a slot in it? That was an ingenious idea, as it traps the small bubbles and pushes them to the top, where they form larger bubbles and slowly bleed out..Does the XSPC reservoir you linked to have this as well? I can't tell from the picture..
 
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FaRKle0079 said:
If you're loop doesn't bleed well then you'll be dealing with the annoying sound of bubbles every time you turn on your computer.
Click to expand...

They work their way out after a while, a week or two at most. After that you still have one of the best performing DDC tops on the market and a res that doesn't really add any restriction.
 
ccityinstaller said:
USMC, Take a look @ this picture of the MicroRes V2..
ex-res-144_3.jpg


I am running mine with that exact same setup, where the bottom port is feeding the intake of MCP 655B, and the upper "front" barb is my return..I have a 90 degree fitting @ the top that runs to my fill point on the top of my HAF 932...I have never had any trouble bleeding air, and I have two reservoirs in the same loop..

Notice how the internal "baffle" has a slot in it? That was an ingenous idea, as it traps the smalle bubbles and pushes them to the top, where they form larger bubbles and slowly bleed out..Does the XSPC reservoir you linked to have this as well? I can't tell from the picture..
Click to expand...


That's how I had my MC-RES v2 set up too, and that design isn't effective at getting little bubbles out with high flow rates.
 
FaRKle0079 said:
That's how I had my MC-RES v2 set up too, and that design isn't effective at getting little bubbles out with high flow rates.
Click to expand...

True that. The bubbles just swirl at the other side and then get sucked back in.
 
Geeze, you guys must have been pushing some serious water. I never had any trouble with my D5 set to max with a micro res.
 
FaRKle0079 said:
Only dual 18w DDC's with XSPC tops. It was still pretty bad with just one pump.
Click to expand...

Funny, It works exactly the way it is supposed to when used in the mounting config I showed in the linked in picture..I have a MCP-655B (stays on highest setting), and have used this pump/res combo over 3 loops now, and have never had a problem with "small" bubbles..They come out, and shoot up to the top where they then gather into a larger bubble and bleed out..

Kinda strange how your results were so different, not saying you are incorrect, just that it's odd..You don't happen to have a picture showing these little bubbles do you?
 
I think you guys are missing the point here talking about not having problems with the micro res. The Microres is a standalone resevoir...the issue seems to be only with resevoir/pump combo products. The design equvilent with the microres would be to put that baffle at the top of the horizontal barb that's acting as an intake from the loop and then have the vertical barb acting as the pump intake being right at the tip of the baffle at its lowest point. This would require any bubbles in the system to first pass across the suction zone created by the pump at the resevoirs outgoing barb at the point that is narrowest. It would also keep any bubbles that settle in the resevoir to stop right at the baffle where the horizontal intake barb is, creating an air pocket. This pocket would hav to get quite large just to get past the baffle if the microres was designed like many of these combo pieces are.
 
Not sure what people are worried about. I accidentally let my 655 run completely dry for a few minutes... back in 2007. Its been doing almost 24/7 duty since then.
 
Holy shit I just picked up a 35x2 and the swiftech 35x res. What a pos that is. The xspc res top is the hell of a lot easier to bleed and fill than this pos. I won't be keeping this pos res for long.
 
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Dethred said:
Not sure what people are worried about. I accidentally let my 655 run completely dry for a few minutes... back in 2007. Its been doing almost 24/7 duty since then.
Click to expand...

It's a precautionary type thing. Why take a risk when you can avoid it?
 
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