Replacing stock TIM on GTX 470/480 Thread

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Matrices

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If you have helpful techniques and results (hopefully, improvement in temps), please put them in this thread.

Here is a picture guide on how to disassemble the 470:

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/Gallery/172137,nvidia-gtx470-disassembly-guide.aspx

What I'm not clear on, however, is whether it's possible to remove the heatsink without removing the entire cooling assembly (for VRMs and RAM underneath). Anyone know?

Also, a caption notes the following:

We re-applied some Noctua HT-01 thermal goop to the heatsink directly, and pressed it against the core. We then rotated slowly to spread the goop around; however, when we tested the card for functionality afterwards we found it was hotter than before - we suggest putting twice the usual recommended amount of thermal paste on due to the design of the heatsink.
Click to expand...

Hm, not sure what's going on there, as they don't elaborate why the "design" of the heatsink should affect the amount of paste used. Nor do they say how they applied their own paste. Should it be a thin layer coating, or a single strip in the middle as with the C2D and i5/i7?

Furthermore: what do people think about replacing all the thermal pads with Arctic Ceramique? Or are those pads at some specific height because goop won't make proper contact?
 
Matrices said:
Hm, not sure what's going on there, as they don't elaborate why the "design" of the heatsink should affect the amount of paste used.
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It's a HDT heatsink. There are small gaps in between the heat pipes. Try applying the TIM to the heatsink itself. For CPU heatsinks it's suggested to add a line to the top and the bottom heat pipes, but I'm not sure how that'd work on what's likely to be a larger surface. Just try experimenting..
 
Pop the clips on the shroud to open the cooler up. 4 screws on the back hold the heatsink that is over the core. Replace TIM. If you want to remove the entire plate and all, remove all screws from the backside of the card.

Nvidia needs to fire the fat lunch lady with the calk gun full of crap stock TIM. Mine looked like icing on a cake. Replaced it with thin coat of ceramique till I get it water cooled tomorrow. Brought temps down a few degrees.
 
I have 'Sears Lens Cleaner' that says it 'contains isopropanol.' Is that just another word for 'isopropyl alcohol?' Looking to clean the GPU.
 
I spread the thermal paste across the whole surface of the GPU. I used a plastic card to spread it. Used shin etsu. Not seeing huge temps drop. Under full load furmark it hits 95c but then the a while later when the fan hits max. The temps drop down to around 91/92c. Room temp 70F. I dont really remember what the max temps were before I changed it but I think they got close to 100c.

When the paste was applied to the GPU I couldn't read the writing on the GPU. I think got a good solid spread on it. The first time I did it i used a plastic bag and spread with my finger, and it was transparent thin. When I powered it up it shot up to 102c. Thats when I redid it and now it settles around 92c. Gaming 93c seems to be where it sits at as a max temp.

I'm getting a Noiseblocker M12-S3HS fan next week hopefully that will help with temps. My current intake fan is a scythe 1200rpm. 49CFM. So probably why my temps are on the high side.

The 470 heatsink isn't attached the same way the 480 is. After popping the shroud off. Just undo the 4 screws on the heatsink. You don't need to unscrew anything on the back of the card. If you did by mistake then make you need to tighten the backscrews before you tighten down the heatsink.
 
Thanks for the info.

I should add that I did a cursory test of temps before and after turning on a 120mm Scythe side intake fan. It made zero difference to temps in Crysis Warhead from what I saw. That's pretty nuts, considering that the fan is aimed directly at the PCI-E slots and is no more than 2 inches away.

This was running GTX 470 SLI (one of the cards I need to return because it's defective), so maybe you'll have better luck with a single GTX.

But my tentative hypothesis is that the components themselves run so hot that, within a certain range, ambient temp simply doesn't matter. The only alternative air solution I see is removing the plastic shroud and running one or two high-CFM 120mm fans directly over the heatsink, with a complementary number of exhaust fans up top.
 
Fans help a LOT for the GTX 480.

You may want to be aware that for Galaxy at least, the warranty is apparently voided just for replacing the TIM.

http://www.galaxytechus.com/usa/supportRMA.aspx

I thought that was pretty ridiculous since legitimate companies like EVGA, XFX, etc have no problem with it, so I PMed their representative here to see if this could really be true, especially since the 480 is designed to be easily taken apart. I could never get a straight answer.
 
anonmoniker said:
Fans help a LOT for the GTX 480.

You may want to be aware that for Galaxy at least, the warranty is apparently voided just for replacing the TIM.

http://www.galaxytechus.com/usa/supportRMA.aspx

I thought that was pretty ridiculous since legitimate companies like EVGA, XFX, etc have no problem with it, so I PMed their representative here to see if this could really be true, especially since the 480 is designed to be easily taken apart. I could never get a straight answer.
Click to expand...
Anon,

I did see your PM and I'm trying to get a better answer but for now, yes the warranty would "technically" be void for any modification of the board. The main problem is that the warranty applies to ALL users and we can't expect all users to be as adept at board modification as the HardForum crew..... I'm still working on it.

EDIT:

We've updated our warranty. See other thread for details:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1534793
 
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I think 480/470 heatsinks are the easiest to disassemble. pop the top off and four screws in the back and the heatsink comes off. HMM, I am not trying to cheat anyone here, but why does everyone go asking about replacing TIM, to me it is called taking care of your card. Unless there is physical damage I can understand the company would refuse to replace your card. If you replace your TIM then you should just chill and enjoy your card. I am sure if you replace your card they don't open up the heatsink to check for damage. If you replaced the TIM you really don't have to go on telling the company hey it has been two years since I got the card but I replaced the paste on it about a month after I got it. You are just asking for a No. To me if there is no physical damage to the card then company's should honor the warranty.

I think company's should be more worried about people giving their graphic card more voltage with msi afterburner then a user replacing the paste on it. Tell me if I am wrong on this statement. But they cant really do anything because it is a software mod without having to flash your bios. I just think it is unfair because most people who buy a five hundered dollar card are the ones who build their own system, and I am sure 90% of know how to disassemble a card and clean it up and replace the paste.

I have a Zotac gtx 480, I am glad I got it from them, They clearly state that warranty is only void if there is any damage during any modificaiton. You can watercool it take it apart as much as you want, all they want is the card to be returned to default factory condition to get it replaced so keep your original cooler.
 
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NKD said:
I am sure if you replace your card they don't open up the heatsink to check for damage. If you replaced the TIM you really don't have to go on telling the company hey it has been two years since I got the card but I replaced the paste on it about a month after I got it. You are just asking for a No. To me if there is no physical damage to the card then company's should honor the warranty.
Click to expand...

I think they would notice on a 480...if you've looked at pictures the TIM is just slathered on in giant glops. If there was a clean application of TIM it would definitely stand out.
 
lol, in that case they should reward you for taking care of their card, haha.
 
HDT heatsinks annoy the crap outa me, good idea, badly implemented most of the time. Make sure you get it right down the gaps if you can.
 
anonmoniker said:
Fans help a LOT for the GTX 480.

You may want to be aware that for Galaxy at least, the warranty is apparently voided just for replacing the TIM.

http://www.galaxytechus.com/usa/supportRMA.aspx

I thought that was pretty ridiculous since legitimate companies like EVGA, XFX, etc have no problem with it, so I PMed their representative here to see if this could really be true, especially since the 480 is designed to be easily taken apart. I could never get a straight answer.
Click to expand...

Yea, thats really retarded if its true. I water cool mine, I dont think the warranty should be voided unless you actually tamper with the hardware on the card. these things arent that delicate that you cant change the TIM on them. Geez..
 
dnottis said:
Yea, thats really retarded if its true. I water cool mine, I dont think the warranty should be voided unless you actually tamper with the hardware on the card. these things arent that delicate that you cant change the TIM on them. Geez..
Click to expand...

Depends if you have hooves for hands and are a mobile tesla coil or not.
 
I redid my paste today with shin etsu. I used an X pattern figuring the surface area is larger than a cpu. So far so good, but since the fan is always on auto I cant tell if the temps are better or not. Full load furmark stock clocks on my 470 settle around 91/92c with a roomtemp of 70F. Lowest I seen at idle is 50c.

Lot easier doing it this way than with a credit card.
 
TehQuick said:
[url]http://www.evga.com/FORUMS/tm.aspx?m=310095[/URL]
[url]http://www.evga.com/FORUMS/tm.aspx?m=335336[/URL]
Matrices, all the best of luck. I love the irony, after all you futile arguments, you are now facing the hard reality of Fermi and your magic aircooling tricks not getting you much.
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You are an amusing person but it makes me laugh.

What "all futile arguments?" What "all tricks?" There is no "trick" in running an intake fan, and my test was merely preliminary. The purpose of this thread is to see how to reduce temps and noise. One person said installing extra fans does that; another person reported dropped temps reapplying the TIM.

So...where is the problem?

As I said elsewhere, I'm not married to the cards, but even with no mods, the 470 is not particularly loud...
 
anonmoniker said:
You may want to be aware that for Galaxy at least, the warranty is apparently voided just for replacing the TIM.

http://www.galaxytechus.com/usa/supportRMA.aspx

I thought that was pretty ridiculous since legitimate companies like EVGA, XFX, etc have no problem with it, so I PMed their representative here to see if this could really be true, especially since the 480 is designed to be easily taken apart. I could never get a straight answer.
Click to expand...

Rossi~ pretty much hit the nail on the head. While most people here can change the TIM without screwing things up, a lot of people can't. You're altering the product, and the company has no idea how qualified you are to do so. Simply because that altering has the potential to completely destroy the product, they're choosing not to warranty it once you do it.

Last I knew, most companies, even big names, didn't allow it. Only a few "enthusiast" brands like EVGA, XFX, and BFG did, and even those aren't covered if they can show you damaged it while you were in there or if it's not RMAed in original factory condition. That's part of the reason you pay more for a good brand - they have policies that better support the stuff that enthusiasts like to do to their hardware.
 
[Crossposting results]

I took off the cover and aimed a 120mm fan directly at the card from the side. Load temps went up at least 5C (shut system off before it went higher). Problem is that the heatsink fins run parallel with the PCI-E slot, so a side fan does nothing but hit the edge of one fin.

I also confirmed earlier testing - running 120mm side fan as exhaust or intake does nothing to temps.

I applied Arctic Ceramique, and temps are still the same. Does take 36 hours to cure, though. Too thick to spread with CC, so spread relatively evenly with finger inside plastic bag. Also, I am using custom fan profile so the temps don't rise above 85C and fan speed doesn't rise above 65%, which is great.

However...I must admit I'm going to be screwed when I re-add another GTX 470.

Could either return them, or spend more $ on WC... sigh...

e: Actually, Thermalright announced in March that it will release bolt-through kits for the GTX series that will work with the Spitfire, VRM stuff, and HR-03 models. So I think I'll hold out for those.

The only other air cooler with compatibility announced is the existing Promilatech MK-13, but that is a failure of design on the GTX cards (only cools properly if case is on its side), according to a couple people on forums who tested it.
 
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I ordered some IC Diamond 7 for mine, hopefully it makes a difference. I'm not used to these kind of temps.
 
I just replaced the TIM on my 480 with some Shin-Etsu G751 and im getting some skewed results. While my idle temps have dropped 3c from 46c - 43c my load temps have gone up from 88c - 98c! I hear theres a cure time for this paste but is this normal? The method I used for applying the TIM was spreading it evenly with my finger in a plastic bag, I used about .3g.
 
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I spread evenly with my finger in a plastic bag using Ceramique, and rubbed in a little into the heatsink itself, particularly the grooves. Temps haven't changed at all.

Actually, nothing I do - side intake fan in, side exhaust fan, fan blowing over the PCB toward the rear - moves my temps even 1C.

It's nuts. Can only wait on Thermalright aftermarket solutions and hope they work in SLI.

I don't know why no one will create an aftermarket heatsink with the fins perpendicular to the PCI-E slots. That way you could at least aim a fan or two at it with side intakes or a Zalman fan bracket-type contraption. Instead they all make them with the fins parallel to the PCI-E slots and require you to mount a fan directly to the heatsink, which makes SLI/CF almost impossible.

A single GTX 470 is zero problem in terms of sound, but I know it's going to be annoying with two, as the bottom one increases the temps of the top one.
 
but is it normal for the load temps to go up that dramatically?! Even with the stock TIM applied in excess I wasnt getting these temps :confused:
 
Probably need to reapply. How thick was it on there? The applications I've seen are thick enough so that you can't really see the lettering on the shim anymore.

Also, are you sure you screwed the heatsink back in properly? That's really the only logical explanation I can think of. You need to screw it in as you would a CPU heatsink - a couple turns on one screw, then go to the diagonal screw, a couple turns there, etc. Make sure each screw is actually screwed in as much as possible.

Alternatively, maybe your material just needs to be applied differently - try the 'X' pattern and see what happens.
 
spread method is known to leave air bubbles

Also if you put too much on it actually insulates more.
 
InvisiBill said:
Rossi~ pretty much hit the nail on the head. While most people here can change the TIM without screwing things up, a lot of people can't. You're altering the product, and the company has no idea how qualified you are to do so. Simply because that altering has the potential to completely destroy the product, they're choosing not to warranty it once you do it.

Last I knew, most companies, even big names, didn't allow it. Only a few "enthusiast" brands like EVGA, XFX, and BFG did, and even those aren't covered if they can show you damaged it while you were in there or if it's not RMAed in original factory condition. That's part of the reason you pay more for a good brand - they have policies that better support the stuff that enthusiasts like to do to their hardware.
Click to expand...

You might have a point if good brands actually cost more but they usually all cost roughly the same. Most of the time when there is a price difference it's because the website jacked up the price due to demand rather than the brand actually having a higher cost to the website (ie: I only bought Galaxy 480s because EVGA was sold out at identical cost...there was no tradeoff of crappy warranty in exchange for lower purchase price). It reflects somewhat badly on [H] to affiliate with and promote a brand that has decidedly anti-enthusiast policies. Why should a warranty be void unless the alteration actually caused the problem? The only reason is that it's more profitable to adopt policies that result in the maximum number of warranties being denied regardless of if it was user damage or an actually defective product. Anyone buying a GTX 480 has already completed tasks of identical difficulty to replacing the TIM when they installed their CPU on their motherboard. I guess you could say I got what I deserved for buying Galaxy since the warranty terms are clearly stated and available, but I normally don't crack my cards open so I didn't expect the terms to be to my detriment. It was only after launch that people started discovering how badly the TIM is applied at factory.
 
Spare-Flair said:
spread method is known to leave air bubbles

Also if you put too much on it actually insulates more.
Click to expand...

I saw that video too, but that might just be plastic that has that effect, not metal. Also, one guy who used the spread method said he lost 10C on his GTX 480. And a number of people and review places said their temps went up when they only put on a dab or a line. I guess I'll try the 'X' method next time.
 
anonmoniker said:
You might have a point if good brands actually cost more but they usually all cost roughly the same. Most of the time when there is a price difference it's because the website jacked up the price due to demand rather than the brand actually having a higher cost to the website (ie: I only bought Galaxy 480s because EVGA was sold out at identical cost...there was no tradeoff of crappy warranty in exchange for lower purchase price). It reflects somewhat badly on [H] to affiliate with and promote a brand that has decidedly anti-enthusiast policies. Why should a warranty be void unless the alteration actually caused the problem? The only reason is that it's more profitable to adopt policies that result in the maximum number of warranties being denied regardless of if it was user damage or an actually defective product. Anyone buying a GTX 480 has already completed tasks of identical difficulty to replacing the TIM when they installed their CPU on their motherboard. I guess you could say I got what I deserved for buying Galaxy since the warranty terms are clearly stated and available, but I normally don't crack my cards open so I didn't expect the terms to be to my detriment. It was only after launch that people started discovering how badly the TIM is applied at factory.
Click to expand...

Yes, generally all brands cost about the same. Under standard conditions, a good brand might only be $10 more than a generic brand. That's part of the reason that I don't mind paying extra for a good brand - it's usually a tiny amount. However, that does make the company more money, which allows them a little more leeway to cover things.

The warranty is voided because it's very easy to cause a problem with something on the card when removing or reinstalling the cooler. I disagree that putting a CPU heatsink on is the same as removing and replacing a GPU cooler. With a CPU, you're generally talking about a single square flat surface, without a whole lot around it (since newer sockets generally need to leave a decent amount of space around them to fit acceptable coolers). With stock CPU coolers, you're often talking pushpins or clips for attaching them. With a video card, there are a lot of components involved (GPU, RAM, vreg, etc.) that contact the cooler at many different heights. There are a lot of tiny little components on the board that could easily be damaged, even without being visible. While they really have no reason to void the warranty unless they can show that you damaged it, it does cost money for them to accept your RMA and check it out, even if they reject your claim. Some companies are just nipping it in the bud, and saying that it's void if you've done anything to it. Also, buying a video card and reading on the intarwebs that you can take it apart and change the TIM to make it cooler doesn't mean that a person has installed a CPU cooler, regardless of whether or not it's the same level of difficulty.

What I'm saying is that any alteration might lead to problems not immediately visible to the naked eye. Rather than receiving your RMA, inspecting it, then arguing with you about it, they're simply saying that they won't cover anything that's been altered. Car warranties are often done in exactly the same way.


Matrices said:
I saw that video too, but that might just be plastic that has that effect, not metal. Also, one guy who used the spread method said he lost 10C on his GTX 480. And a number of people and review places said their temps went up when they only put on a dab or a line. I guess I'll try the 'X' method next time.
Click to expand...

The bubbles are from an uneven layer of paste being trapped between two flat surfaces (or from the surfaces being not quite flat). With a single blob in the middle, the downward pressure pushes the paste out from the middle to the edges, pushing all the air out in front of it. With a mostly-flat layer of paste between two mostly-flat surfaces, there's nowhere for bubbles in the middle to go. There's even pressure all around, rather than pressure from the middle pushing outward. The properties of the surface might have some effect on how easily the air and paste can slide around, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the air bubbles being trapped in the middle.
 
I reapplied my 480 with AS5 and the temps went up. The heat sink is a bitch to clean properly, and really really rough. Be careful not to let your cleaner drip into the grooves on it.

I was idling around 45c on my 480, I got greedy and decided I could maybe drop it a few degrees by re applying the TIM. I was going to use the Shin Etsu x23 paste, but it was horrible. It went on like dry wood filler. I couldn't work with it at all, so I used my trusty AS5 and spread a nice even layer thick enough to blot out the nvidia lettering on the chip. I then smashed the heat sink down and gave it a few twists and lifted it up to see what the contact was, which was surprisingly hardly any. I applied AS5 to the heat sink too and kept sitting it down and testing to see contact was even. After I felt good about it I put it back together and was disappointed to see it's now hotter.

I have no idea how though, my application was pretty thick compared to how i normally do it, but significantly less than what was on there before (my god was there a lot before..). I see temperatures at around 94c in game with fan at 90%. It gets LOUD.

My advice, don't bother. I'm probably going to redo it but I want it to break in a little. It's just such a pain in the ass to clean the heatsink. It took me like an hour to get it properly cleaned and put back together.
 
I thought the proper way to apply thermal paste was to put a small BB sized ball of it on the GPU and then rub it in with you finger (in a clear plastic bag) until the GPU is very very lightly covered. For instance, if you had a mirror finish, the mirror would still be visible, but slightly hazy. The thermal paste is meant to fill in the microscopic pits and valleys.

I do not think you are supposed to blob on thermal paste or put a huge X pattern on, etc. Maybe all this assumes that the heatsink and GPU are perfectly flat surfaces too... *shrug*

Honestly...I am just going to wait for a product from Thermalright because I doubt the stock heatsink any good (i.e. flat).
 
The X pattern worked fine for me. It's been around a week or so since I've done it. No issues.
 
mike_j_johnson said:
I thought the proper way to apply thermal paste was to put a small BB sized ball of it on the GPU and then rub it in with you finger (in a clear plastic bag) until the GPU is very very lightly covered. For instance, if you had a mirror finish, the mirror would still be visible, but slightly hazy. The thermal paste is meant to fill in the microscopic pits and valleys.

I do not think you are supposed to blob on thermal paste or put a huge X pattern on, etc. Maybe all this assumes that the heatsink and GPU are perfectly flat surfaces too... *shrug*

Honestly...I am just going to wait for a product from Thermalright because I doubt the stock heatsink any good (i.e. flat).
Click to expand...

Spreading the paste will result in air bubbles because heatspreaders are never perfectly flat. Most are concave or convex. The spread on method works if the die is SMALL & totally exposed like on old AMD processors or on ATI videocards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffK7L0Qj13Q
 
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I replaced the massive amount of goop that came on mine with some IC diamond paste. I used about 2xpeasized amount in the center and just rotated the heatsink a bit. Temps dropped by about 5 degrees at both idle and load.Really nice since my fan doesn't ramp up nearly as much now.
 
I tried the X method with OCZ freeze and temps dropped maybe 1 or 2C, if at all. Guess the peasized method in the middle is next...
 
I reapplied thermal compound on my GTX 280 and my ATI 5970 with MX-3 thermal compound. So far the GTX 280 had the biggest drop about 8 degrrees with furmark. I had about 3 to 5 degrees drop on the 5970 with furmark.

I do dismantle the whole assembly when I do this. Goodluck :)
 
Rendermonkey said:
I replaced the massive amount of goop that came on mine with some IC diamond paste. I used about 2xpeasized amount in the center and just rotated the heatsink a bit. Temps dropped by about 5 degrees at both idle and load.Really nice since my fan doesn't ramp up nearly as much now.
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thats great to hear, my IC diamond comes on tuesday, cant wait to add it to my 480s.

so any idea which is the best method? it seems people have success/issues with all the applying methods
 
FRZ said:
thats great to hear, my IC diamond comes on tuesday, cant wait to add it to my 480s.

so any idea which is the best method? it seems people have success/issues with all the applying methods
Click to expand...

I used the recommended drop in the middle method. That stuff is almost impossible to spread anyway unless you heat it up. I used twice of what I normally use on a processor since this thing is so much bigger and those heatpipes aren't exactly smooth either.
 
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So I finally got to replacing the Tim on my 480s. On the first one it went fine (asus) but the second card (pny) has two screws left I cannot take out. The same screws came off fine with the other card however nothing I do will remove them from the pny card. Do you guys have any ideas? They are two of the main small screws on the bottom of the card
 
I had to replace the TIM on my 480 due to water cooling. I used ceramique and applied it in an asterisk fashion as described by the directions from EK(the chip is huge). I have nothing to compare before and after but the temps at 99% load were in the 90's unless I had the fan at 100% then ran abut 83. When I water cooled the card:
Stock
726/1452/1900/volt 1.00-idle 37, 99% loading 51(furmark loads 97%,Vantage loads 99%)
OC'ed
875/1750/2000/volt 1.385-idle 41, 99% loading 55 Degrees
My conclusion with the 480 is it OC's like a beast, runs cool and without any fan noise with water
the air temp rise going through the triple radiator is 4 degrees

Just for the CPU people my 975 with ceramique:
all settings stock 3.33/volts 1.176- idle 40, 100% load 51
OC'ed 31X133 = 4.112/volts 1.285- idle 43, 100% load 60
the air temp rise going through the double radiator is 3 degree
 
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