Replacing my 8400GS Looking for a budget solution

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MX-5 Dave

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Jan 14, 2007
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Like the title says.


I have this spare comp, and while I don't use it THAT often, I want it to be at least somewhat capable when I do. Its a Core2Duo I forget the model but its 2.93ghz and the machine has 2gb ram.

Current video card is an old BFG 8400GS. I want to spend under $100 shipped, and get as much of an upgrade as I can. I know that isn't a big budget, but with how old that card is, and how mediocre it was even when new, there HAVE to be some cheap cards out there that would tear this thing up.


The games I play for the most part would be WoW, SIMS 3 and the Source games (CS, TF2 and DoD)

I am likely going to put XP Media Center 2005 on the machine, because it only has the 2gb of ram and I have a spare copy. But possibly Vista. I dont like Vista on less than 4gb, so its probably going to be XP.


So.... what cards should I be looking at? I really like ATI, but am totally open to NVIDIA.

Any suggestions would be appreciated,
 
Well let me ask you this, my main box has a 4890 1gb gddr5 Would that 5670 be faster than this 4890?

IF NOT, are there any ATI cards close to this same price range that would be faster than this 4890? Because I could put the new card in this machine and put the 4890 in the spare box...
 
The 5670 is a few steps down from your 4890. Still, it's no slouch. I think it's one of the most under rated entry level cards ever.
 
The 5670's about half as powerful as the HD4890. For <$100 you won't find anything that beats the 4890. The cheapest card that does right now is the HD6850 for $175.
 
samuelmorris said:
The 5670's about half as powerful as the HD4890. For <$100 you won't find anything that beats the 4890. The cheapest card that does right now is the HD6850 for $175.
Click to expand...

What ? You have GTX 460s 1 GB for $160 and less (with MIR rebate) + free shipping. The HD 6850 is hardly the cheapest one in that group.
 
MX-5 Dave said:
Like the title says.


I have this spare comp, and while I don't use it THAT often, I want it to be at least somewhat capable when I do. Its a Core2Duo I forget the model but its 2.93ghz and the machine has 2gb ram.

Current video card is an old BFG 8400GS. I want to spend under $100 shipped, and get as much of an upgrade as I can. I know that isn't a big budget, but with how old that card is, and how mediocre it was even when new, there HAVE to be some cheap cards out there that would tear this thing up.


The games I play for the most part would be WoW, SIMS 3 and the Source games (CS, TF2 and DoD)

I am likely going to put XP Media Center 2005 on the machine, because it only has the 2gb of ram and I have a spare copy. But possibly Vista. I dont like Vista on less than 4gb, so its probably going to be XP.


So.... what cards should I be looking at? I really like ATI, but am totally open to NVIDIA.

Any suggestions would be appreciated,
Click to expand...

For those games and assuming you don't game beyond 1600x1200, a GTS 450 or HD 5770 are more than enough. If you want something more powerful without breaking the bank, get the GTX 460 768 MB.
Even more powerful and up to 1920x1200, the GTX 460 1 GB or HD 6850 will do, but the GTX 460 1 GB is cheaper right now.
 
I play WoW and the Source based games at 1920X1200.

Both games I can play with everything maxed with only very minor slowdowns in the places in WoW where pretty much everyone has them. But I know that WoW is more CPU and RAM dependent than GPU.

I would assume that newer more intensive games would be a different story.
 
Silus: Before rebate, the GTX460 1GB is more expensive than the HD6850, at $193 shipped.
The 768MB GTX460 is faster than the HD4890, but by about 6%. That's borderline within standard statistical error.
The HD5830 is also the same price as the HD6850, so is also discarded.
 
samuelmorris said:
Silus: Before rebate, the GTX460 1GB is more expensive than the HD6850, at $193 shipped.
The 768MB GTX460 is faster than the HD4890, but by about 6%. That's borderline within standard statistical error.
The HD5830 is also the same price as the HD6850, so is also discarded.
Click to expand...

What ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...088&cm_re=GTX_460_1_GB-_-14-261-088-_-Product

$159.99 + free shipping + $20 MIR = $139.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...591&cm_re=GTX_460_1_GB-_-14-130-591-_-Product

$169.99 + 3.99 shipping + $20 MIR = 149.99 + 3.99

And both even come with a coupon for two games (Just Cause 2 and Mafia 2)

The cheapest HD 6850 I can find @ the egg is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127548&cm_re=HD_6850-_-14-127-548-_-Product

And that's $149.99 (after MIR) + 4.99 shipping and no coupon for games...

Obviously there are other places to look for deals (can be even better than these), but despite your efforts, the GTX 460 1 GB is a better deal than the HD 6850.
 
MX-5 Dave said:
I play WoW and the Source based games at 1920X1200.

Both games I can play with everything maxed with only very minor slowdowns in the places in WoW where pretty much everyone has them. But I know that WoW is more CPU and RAM dependent than GPU.

I would assume that newer more intensive games would be a different story.
Click to expand...

Of course. The Source engine is quite dated and doesn't really push modern graphics cards. And WoW isn't exactly taxing either.

If you really want to be ready for more demanding games, scratch what I said about the HD 5770 or GTS 450. They were meant for someone that will basically play the games you mentioned, without breaking the bank.
For more demanding games, you should look only at cards equal to or above the GTX 460 1 GB and HD 6850. Up to $260, you have pretty good deals with the GTX 560 Ti and HD 6950 1 GB, that will offer very good performance for the price, up to 1920x1200.
 
samuelmorris said:
Herp derp, that's a GTX460 SE. Not a 1GB GTX460.
Click to expand...

Haha, you're right. My bad! It's 1 GB though!

Still, you have these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...169&cm_re=GTX_460_1_GB-_-14-500-169-_-Product

$199.99 + $30 MIR + $3.99 shipping and a two game coupon

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...333&cm_re=GTX_460_1_GB-_-14-125-333-_-Product

$189.99 + $20 MIR + free shipping and a two game coupon

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...565&cm_re=GTX_460_1_GB-_-14-130-565-_-Product

$199.99 + $30 MIR + $7.56 shipping and a two game coupon

Those are much better deals, considering the coupons for games, which they all have.
 
They're reasonable deals. However, the up-front cost, which given the varying reliability of rebates, is what I consider foremost, and ultimately, the HD6850 is cheaper up front by a full $15. Were it that the GTX460 1GB was a faster card, or even an equal card, that would be justifiable, but since the HD6850 is also slightly faster it doesn't really seem worth the extra initial expenditure, hence my initial recommendation :)
 
samuelmorris said:
They're reasonable deals. However, the up-front cost, which given the varying reliability of rebates, is what I consider foremost, and ultimately, the HD6850 is cheaper up front by a full $15. Were it that the GTX460 1GB was a faster card, or even an equal card, that would be justifiable, but since the HD6850 is also slightly faster it doesn't really seem worth the extra initial expenditure, hence my initial recommendation :)
Click to expand...

Slightly faster ? Only if you mean when compared to the stock clocked version (which of the 3 links I provided only the Zotac is at stock speeds). When the GTX 460 is overclocked, they have essentially the same performance. Considering also the overclockability of the GTX 460s, that's one extra bonus.

Also, if two games are not worth the extra expenditure (especially a measily $15), I don't know what will be...

Oh well, to each his own.
 
Well yeah, you're comparing an overclocked card to a stock card, congrats!
HD6850s overclock to 940mhz typically, which offers a typical 15-19% performance increase [Anandtech]
A typical overclock on a 1GB GTX460 is 845mhz [Bit-tech], I've seen higher, but that cuts longevity down enormously and puts out a lot of heat.
In this instance you're getting a 25% typical performance increase [average of the minimum/average fps increase] [Bit-Tech]
At the highest I've seen, 940mhz [Techreport], that's a 28% improvement in AvP. Being generous, we'll round it up to 30.

From what I've seen the HD6850 is roughly 10% faster than the GTX460 1GB stock, in an unbiased test.
Thus, clocking the HD6850 gets you from 110% to 126-130%, and you'll be using a bit more power, 175W versus 127W [assume reference TDP, 81% PSU efficiency [SPCR][Techreport]]
Clocking the GTX460 1GB gets you from 100% to 130%, and you'll be using a lot more power. Techreport's bench suggests a 146W load for the 1GB 460 but it's usually a lot more than that, typically 170 or so.
Even if we use the generous 146W baseline, we're up to 182W load for the modest overclock [I would normally say 200], and 227W for the extreme overclock [I would normally say 250].
230-250W and two 6-pins versus 175W and one 6-pin, for basically the same performance. I think you can see what I'm saying here!
 
Is the OP even intending to overclock though? And besides that, he wanted to keep it under $100.

I am far from an expert here, so don't take this suggestion to heart without double-checking, but what about a Radeon 5770? With MIR it gets down to $100.

Though I think the other cards suggested would be better deals if you can stretch your budget.
 
There's a considerable gap between the HD5770 and the HD6850. Compared to the differences between the 6850 and 460 being discussed here, it's a veritable chasm.
 
Right -- but it is in his stated budget and the others aren't, is all I was thinking. I know it, well, that it sucks in comparison.

I mean, some folks aren't capable of stretching budgets like some are, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to at least offer one suggestion in that range.
 
True, but his request has differed a bit from the original post. Ultimately his decision and if he can only spend 5770-money upfront, then the 5770 is still the best buy. Is just a little unfortunate as performance per dollar peaks at the HD6850.
 
nVidia aside (I don't have any right now)...I have both the 5770 and 5670, my wife has a 5750.

I run the 5770 in my main rig with a i7 860, and it does all I want it to do @1080 60Hz. It runs L4D1-2, Crysis(with MW mod), blur, TF2, yadda, all very nice.

The 5670 512mb variant is in my HTPC( I wish I waited and ordered overseas for the latter model, it's a little faster and came with a diff mem setup I believe.) I would have liked more mem on this card, as it serves as my backup gaming rig when the wife kicks me off mine(in the bedroom). It plays all those above titles at lower settings flawlessly.

My wife's card is odd...she plays RPGs mostly, but I can tell you she uses it for Divinity II, Dragon Age, and others fine. The number leads you to think it's more like the 5770 in terms of perf. but it's more like the 5670 in some games.

BUT...and here's the real life analysis, only the 5770 stands near your 4890 for performance, and only the 5670 (for ATI cards) would be proper upgrade choice for an 8400GS for under $100, and no extra PSU power draw beyond the bus itself. Unless nVidia has released something I've missed, which is quite probable, I think this still owns this bang for buck bracket. Going to over $100, shit gets messy, vendor tweaks to some of these cards have some performing like others, etc., just to gain an edge so really check reviews and such. I love my card, but I have to respect my client's new GTX460 from MSI with the large open air sink on it. The card was under 150 with rebate, stays cleaner than his old 8800gts, performs very nicely stacked against mine, and was a great buy overall for him.

This all said, keep checking the rebates, you may come across with sweet deals that can't be ignored. Newegg is good for this.

Good luck, I guess...even if you have to run the short game, and grab a 5670 stock with 512 ram....coming from a 8400GS, you won't be disappointed, it's a safe bet for the budget minded.
 
A 5750 being like both a 5770 and a 5670 isn't too far fetched, as it's pretty much right in the middle of the two of them. 85W instead of 110W or 60W, and performance is much the same way as well.
 
For those that missed it, let me recap my part of the thread.



OP was questioning what card I could get to replace the 8400GS in my secondary comp.




Then I started considering the option of upgrading the card in my main machine, which is currently a 4890, then taking that 4890 for the secondary machine, so I was asking what would be a decent upgrade over the 4890. Obviously this will be a much more expensive option than only upgrading the other machine, however, it would leave me with a GREAT card in the secondary machine, and a shiny new current card capable of todays more intensive games.





I am putting a target budget of $300-350 on the card for the main machine.


Or I may still just do a simple $90 5670 for the other machine and keep using the 4890 in the main machine.


Weighing my options :)



And the more I think of it, the more I would like to stick with ATI.
 
An HD4890 is a lot of power and heat to go in a secondary PC, so bear that in mind.
For $350 ish, you're best off with either a 2GB HD6950 (unlocked to 6970 if you can), a 2GB HD6970 (if you don't want to risk unlocking), or two HD6850s in crossfire. You also have the option of a GTX570, but in my mind, this is not as good value.
 
samuelmorris said:
Well yeah, you're comparing an overclocked card to a stock card, congrats!
Click to expand...

Uh? Who cares ? It's overclocked out of the box for a similar performance/price and/or better deal with the games it includes.

You can dismiss the deals all you want, but you seem way too invested in this for some reason...but it's becoming quite clear.
 
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