Replacing an LCD with... a CRT

Q

quantum112

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
392
Greetings forum, my first post here - which will also serve as an introduction.

For me, PC gaming has come to a rather awful position where, in 2010 I play more games from 2000-2005 than I did when they were just out, because there is very few modern games that I find worth playing so I mostly just mash on older games either alone or with friends and I have way more fun with that than with anything that came out in the past few years save for a few exceptions.

As such, gaming on a 16:10 SM226BW is pure hell, with the needs to constantly hack or patch something to get some half-baked result or deal with stretched HUDs, maps, scopes and overall I just don't really like the feel of 16:10. If I did some sort of web-design, dealed with lots of documents, graphic design or some stuff like that, I'm sure I'd appreciate the wider screen real-estate, but my desktop rarely has any icons on it anyway as I prefer to look at a wallpaper, and it's primarily games that I'm dealing with.
I don't watch movies on my PC anyway, I use my living room TV for that.

So I figure a CRT would be the best choice seeing as image quality and dealing with a wide array of resolutions matters to me. Unfortunately I don't have many choices, there's nothing new here at all, so I'm stuck with buying something used. Ordering from outside of the country is out of the question cause shipping a monitor is huge money.

Now, to narrow things down a bit, I'd like it to be a decent size, preferably 21" (I swear if there was a 4:3 version of the FW900 I'd go to the end of the world to pick it up, I drool over that monitor even now), but I could settle for a 19" if it had better dot pitch, higher res with better refresh rate and such. I'm going to list what I can find available and I'd appreciate if people could tell me what the best thing to buy would be, all of these monitors are relatively cheap so price is not an option, but it'll have to perform as good or better than this LCD as it is going to be my primary monitor, after all, so image quality is of primary concern.

-Samsung SyncMaster 957fs 19"
-LG 920P 19"
-Samsung SyncMaster 1100DF monitor CRT 21"
-Sony Multiscan E530 21" CRT Monitor

That's more or less what I found so far...anyone can provide any insight on the quality of image, geometry, color etc., on those monitors? Preferably perfectly flat screen, not sure which one of these has it.

If I find any other good ones I'll add them.

Thanks!!
 
Can't you just pick up a 1920x1200 LCD and run your games at 1600x1200?
 
I would look for a 24" LCD that offers 1:1 pixel mapping. That way for games that support widescreen, you run them at 1920x1200 but for games that don't the screen would just display 1600x1200 with black bars on the side.
 
siliconnerd said:
I would look for a 24" LCD that offers 1:1 pixel mapping. That way for games that support widescreen, you run them at 1920x1200 but for games that don't the screen would just display 1600x1200 with black bars on the side.
Click to expand...

I don't have that kind of money right now, and I don't need a special monitor for that - I know how to turn off GPU scaling in CCC. It doesn't solve my problem in any way, though.

I've also never had headaches or problems with my eyes from CRT's, in fact I can probably say I have them more now, due to the horrible contrast/brightness settings of this Samsung, and not to mention the awful 3000:1 contrast.

What I'm trying to say is if CRT's were fine for me 5 years ago they'd be fine for me now, I know you all like LCD's but I'm definitely writing off buying another one, even if I had the cash.

Can't you just pick up a 1920x1200 LCD and run your games at 1600x1200?
Click to expand...

Heh, nope... some of these games support 640x480 at most, some 800x600, and a few of the newer ones can eventually go 1152x864 or 1280x1024, all pretty low resolutions.
 
quantum112 said:
What I'm trying to say is if CRT's were fine for me 5 years ago they'd be fine for me now, I know you all like LCD's but I'm definitely writing off buying another one, even if I had the cash.
Click to expand...

I don't think LCDs are the most superior display technology, but they are the most readily available these days. A good CRT monitor is pretty hard to come by these days.

Out of curiosity, have you ever owned an IPS LCD monitor?

EDIT: What games are you playing?
 
450 said:
EDIT: What games are you playing?
Click to expand...

Good question.

I play Return to Castle Wolfenstein, a 2001 game based on the Quake 3 Arena engine. I'm playing at 1920x1080. Although that resolution isn't in the settings menu, you can set a custom resolution in probably all Q3A games:

Code: 
seta r_mode "-1"
seta r_customwidth "1920"
seta r_customheight "1080"

It scales absolutely perfectly even if the game wasn't intended for 16:9 or even 16:10.
 
quantum112 said:
Now, to narrow things down a bit, I'd like it to be a decent size, preferably 21" (I swear if there was a 4:3 version of the FW900 I'd go to the end of the world to pick it up, I drool over that monitor even now), but I could settle for a 19" if it had better dot pitch, higher res with better refresh rate and such.
Click to expand...

The GDM-F520 has better specs than the GDM-W900 and is 4:3 aspect. They cost more too (I bought and still have 2 of them). They were designed and marketed to CAD Design pros and graphic artests. You can still find them once and a while, but it is hard to find one in good shape.

For your purposes this would be the best solution

Dave
 
Monkey God said:
I will never go back to CRT's, gives me headaches and hurting eyes.
Click to expand...

Funny, that's my experience with LCDs :p

A CRT is indeed great if you need to play at a wide variety of resolutions. Whether you play at 640x480 or 1600x1200 on it doesn't matter, it'll always look good :)
 
So can the flaming end and could somebody please give a suggestion which of the 4 mentioned monitors would be the best or possibly suggest some alternative model? Thank you...
 
Yes, I know that perfectly well... I've been doing it for the past - 2 years? Which is WHY I'm wanting to get a CRT monitor so I could avoid the whole hacking thing just to get games to run in widescreen, I'm sick of it, and I don't care much for widescreen, nor LCDs, I just want a screen that has great colors and image quality and doesn't have scaling issues or odd aspect ratios, I don't see how this is too much to ask...
 
quantum112 said:
Yes, I know that perfectly well... I've been doing it for the past - 2 years? Which is WHY I'm wanting to get a CRT monitor so I could avoid the whole hacking thing just to get games to run in widescreen, I'm sick of it, and I don't care much for widescreen, nor LCDs, I just want a screen that has great colors and image quality and doesn't have scaling issues or odd aspect ratios, I don't see how this is too much to ask...
Click to expand...

Im with you on the whole CRT thing, Im still using an FW900 CRT myself.. speaking of which they can run 4:3 resolutions just fine (black bars on sides).

But If you wanted a 4:3 equavilant of an FW900 it would be the 21" Sony F520 CRT (this pic shows 2 of them, FW900 in the middle) but good luck finding one at this point...
 
eddieck said:
I play Return to Castle Wolfenstein, a 2001 game based on the Quake 3 Arena engine. I'm playing at 1920x1080.
Click to expand...

That's a great game- my wife bought it for me for my birthday when she was "just" my fiance. Memories....


(/offtopic)
 
quantum112 said:
So can the flaming end and could somebody please give a suggestion which of the 4 mentioned monitors would be the best or possibly suggest some alternative model? Thank you...
Click to expand...

Of the 4 mentioned I'd go for the Sony mainly because its the only one from the list that uses an Aperture grille ..the rest use shadow mask which will definitely not be as bright or vibrant.
 
I've yet to seen an LCD that matches a good CRT. And for those of you that are going to say "well my monitor is a..." save it. The output is worlds better in a CRT.
 
I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't even mind buying the FW900 but, jeez, that's at least 300$ and shipping it to my country even from Germany or so, well...wow, let's just say - way out of my price range.
This might seem like a stupid thing to ask but would the Multiscan E530 be anywhere close to the picture quality of a F520 and FW900?
 
eddieck said:
Good question.

I play Return to Castle Wolfenstein, a 2001 game based on the Quake 3 Arena engine. I'm playing at 1920x1080. Although that resolution isn't in the settings menu, you can set a custom resolution in probably all Q3A games:

Code: 
seta r_mode "-1"
seta r_customwidth "1920"
seta r_customheight "1080"

It scales absolutely perfectly even if the game wasn't intended for 16:9 or even 16:10.
Click to expand...

How does rtcw run on your intel i7? Mine runs like complete ass even though im getting 125fps consistently. And using a CRT will improve your aim in rtcw. lcd just don't compare: scalling 1280x1024 looks really good on my samsung 2233rz though but my CRT at 1024x768 is a tad faster.

Heres my issue with rtcw: http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=652&threadid=451534
 
CRTs are definitely better for competitive gaming.

Games where skill doesn't matter like Bioshock or medic/engi classes in TF2 are fine with LCDs.

But if you're going to snipe/scout in TF2 or play Counter-strike 1.6, CRT has huge advantages.

I can't get my Samsung 955DF drivers to install on windows 7 though so I can't use 100hz+ refresh rates.

The FW900 pops up on Craigslist every once in a while. There's one near me but the guy says it's branded HP. I'm going to check it out. Hopefully it runs all right.
 
Ughh I wish I could find some quality monitors where I live, best thing seems to be this E530 which I'm not sure how well it performs, any ideas?
 
Maybe the NEC MultiSync FE2111SB - 22? The are about $200-$230 used/refurb online.

I used to own the FP2141SB - 22 and I LOVED it. Picture quality wise, it beat the s**t out of any LCD I have seen before. Colors and picture were perfect....I can't believe I gave it away when I moved........SOB!
 
Arklight said:
I used to own the FP2141SB - 22 and I LOVED it. Picture quality wise, it beat the s**t out of any LCD I have seen before. Colors and picture were perfect....I can't believe I gave it away when I moved........SOB!
Click to expand...

I was just about to recommend the same monitor :).

The NEC FP2141SB is still my primary computer display. Have yet to find a worthy replacement - plus it cost me ~$1000 several years ago, so I wouldn't want to just *give it away* [ie. would just use it as a secondary monitor].

The Mitsubishi 2070SB is the exact same monitor as the 2141 - just relabeled.

Quality Diamondtron tubes are up there with the best Trinitron's.
 
Epiik said:
CRTs are definitely better for competitive gaming.

Games where skill doesn't matter like Bioshock or medic/engi classes in TF2 are fine with LCDs.

But if you're going to snipe/scout in TF2 or play Counter-strike 1.6, CRT has huge advantages.

I can't get my Samsung 955DF drivers to install on windows 7 though so I can't use 100hz+ refresh rates.

The FW900 pops up on Craigslist every once in a while. There's one near me but the guy says it's branded HP. I'm going to check it out. Hopefully it runs all right.
Click to expand...

Theres a way to do it with modifying the driver search (EDID). I think i found it on one of those windows 7 forums
 
quantum112 said:
I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't even mind buying the FW900 but, jeez, that's at least 300$ and shipping it to my country even from Germany or so, well...wow, let's just say - way out of my price range.
This might seem like a stupid thing to ask but would the Multiscan E530 be anywhere close to the picture quality of a F520 and FW900?
Click to expand...

Ive never seen a E530 in action but I found its specs online, the F520 has a finer pitch (.22) so it would have a sharper image at higher resolutions, it also supports higher max resolutions but Im sure if the E530 is in proper working condition it should have a good picture.

E530 specs
F520 specs
 
Quickstrike said:
I was just about to recommend the same monitor :).

The NEC FP2141SB is still my primary computer display. Have yet to find a worthy replacement - plus it cost me ~$1000 several years ago, so I wouldn't want to just *give it away* [ie. would just use it as a secondary monitor].

The Mitsubishi 2070SB is the exact same monitor as the 2141 - just relabeled.

Quality Diamondtron tubes are up there with the best Trinitron's.
Click to expand...


I already had 2 panels so I donated it (to the Disabled American Veterans organization). I certainly don't regret donating it to them, but I wish I could find another. I found one online last night, but I think it was $700+ dollars. ack. lol
 
I had a HP P1110 that I really liked until it died. It's also marketed as a Dell and a Sony, and uses a Trinitron tube. They have a common resistor failure issue that leads to gray blacks (brightness range gets too high) over time, but it's a relatively easy fix.
 
Hey quantum. After dealing w/ all the pain and agony that is the LCD monitors of today, I totally hear what you're saying. If it were up to me, I'd personally get the FW900, but since you claim to dislike widescreen, there may be some alternatives I found that you didn't list:

*http://www.superwarehouse.com/Sony_CRT_Monitors/b/250/c/1875/d - lists a TON of other Sony CRT monitors. Although it's USA-based, perhaps you could take note of the model #'s and search their availability for German-based e-tailers, or brick n' mortar stores (if possible!).

* Dell P1130 - a rebadged CPD-G520 (note that seemingly a lot of the later Sony CRT's were rebranded by both Dell and HP. So if you're Google'ing, say, "19" Sony CRT," make sure to do another search to include to word "rebadged" and you're sure to come up w/ more results, and maybe at a cheaper price).

* I personally owned a 17" ViewSonic, w/ a so-so dot-pitch (.26, or .27), but more than makes up for it w/ exceptionally beautiful colors. I believe it was the A70 or P775? So you may want to check out that, or the other countless 17"-19" ViewSonic's out there.

Honestly, there are a ton of other CRT monitors that would suit you in the 17" - 19" range. I'd even go as far as saying the worst CRT would beat the best LCD (an oxymoron?). Obviously, however, the biggest concern is FINDING them. I'm not sure what kind of stores Germany has, but I remember some of our stores in the US might have still carried CRT's in the back that they could never get rid of...

Hope your search brings you something that you can enjoy! I only wish instead of LCD's, we'd be using slim CRT's (aka FED or SED monitors) today :(
 
Hi Yeastwood,

thanks for such a comprehensive reply. Actually, you wouldn't believe it, the more I look at the FW900 the more I can't resist the urge to somehow gain the money and purchase one.
I know widescreen has it's advantages, I don't really hate it, but it just seems to do more harm than good to me. However, for a monitor of this caliber that would actually be able to replace this LCD for good, I'd ignore that and buy it especially as it can handle resolutions far greater than this LCD and is also larger, which is always a plus. I can always get a cheaper 17" CRT for the really old games on the side just like you mentioned.

Actually, I'm not from Germany, I'm from Croatia, but I happened to mention Germany as an example (as it's relatively close). However, looking at eBay I've managed to find a used FW900 in Germany for "only" 352 USD... and as luck would have it - I have relatives at that same town it's being sold at.
If I could only scrounge up the money, they could hold onto it for me until their next trip to Croatia, that is actually a splendid idea now that I think of it. The only downside I see is not being able to visually inspect the monitor before actually purchasing it...I'd hate to be tricked, that's a lot of money. I mean, there is buyer protection and all, but that would be a real hassle.

Another thing I'm worried about is how long do these monitors typically last? I'm pretty sure parts here are blatantly impossible to obtain and I can count on one hand the peeps in this country who could fix it - that kinda scares me. Either way, I'm putting this LCD up in the ads. If I managed to sell it I wouldn't have to get much more money to be able to purchase it. Take a look and tell me what you think:

http://img532.imageshack.us/i/98031150.jpg/
http://img696.imageshack.us/i/70397135.jpg/
http://img44.imageshack.us/i/63887785.jpg/

He says that visually it's "like from the factory".
 
Yeastwood said:
Hey quantum. After dealing w/ all the pain and agony that is the LCD monitors of today, I totally hear what you're saying. If it were up to me, I'd personally get the FW900, but since you claim to dislike widescreen, there may be some alternatives I found that you didn't list:

*http://www.superwarehouse.com/Sony_CRT_Monitors/b/250/c/1875/d - lists a TON of other Sony CRT monitors. Although it's USA-based, perhaps you could take note of the model #'s and search their availability for German-based e-tailers, or brick n' mortar stores (if possible!).

* Dell P1130 - a rebadged CPD-G520 (note that seemingly a lot of the later Sony CRT's were rebranded by both Dell and HP. So if you're Google'ing, say, "19" Sony CRT," make sure to do another search to include to word "rebadged" and you're sure to come up w/ more results, and maybe at a cheaper price).

* I personally owned a 17" ViewSonic, w/ a so-so dot-pitch (.26, or .27), but more than makes up for it w/ exceptionally beautiful colors. I believe it was the A70 or P775? So you may want to check out that, or the other countless 17"-19" ViewSonic's out there.

Honestly, there are a ton of other CRT monitors that would suit you in the 17" - 19" range. I'd even go as far as saying the worst CRT would beat the best LCD (an oxymoron?). Obviously, however, the biggest concern is FINDING them. I'm not sure what kind of stores Germany has, but I remember some of our stores in the US might have still carried CRT's in the back that they could never get rid of...

Hope your search brings you something that you can enjoy! I only wish instead of LCD's, we'd be using slim CRT's (aka FED or SED monitors) today :(
Click to expand...

None of those monitors you listed in that link are for sale any longer (as I am sure you already know).

I have managed to find some CRTs online, and have been considering an NEC FE2111SB-BK. It is supposed to be a lot like the FB2141SB-BK, but has a lower max resolution (which I will never use anyways). It might be an option for the OP since it seems more readily available.

If I don't get a CRT, I will probably just go with a Dell 2007FP. The Dell would probably be cheaper after shipping. lol
 
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What do people think about the Compaq P1100? I used this model at work and was quite pleased with it (at the time). I tried to buy a used one from work a number of years ago but they pushed back and I had to settle for a used Compaq P110 (which I had also used at work). Both of these models are Trinitron based with the P110 being much older. The P110 has served me very well for over 10 years - a good deal for the $125 I spent :)

I have a Dell 2408 at work now. I like it a lot but I've never gamed on it :)
 
Skakruk said:
Keep your eyes peeled for the Mitsubishi 2070SB. That is a fine monitor, and probably only second to the FW900.

EDIT: Whoops, I see it's already entered the discussion.
Click to expand...


I believe the Mitsubishi 2070SB and the NEC FP2141SB are pretty much the same monitor. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

I found an NEC FP2141SB online, it's about $730 without shipping. Ouch.... lol
 
[H]ocusPocus;1035218255 said:
What do people think about the Compaq P1100? I used this model at work and was quite pleased with it (at the time). I tried to buy a used one from work a number of years ago but they pushed back and I had to settle for a used Compaq P110 (which I had also used at work). Both of these models are Trinitron based with the P110 being much older. The P110 has served me very well for over 10 years - a good deal for the $125 I spent :)

I have a Dell 2408 at work now. I like it a lot but I've never gamed on it :)
Click to expand...

The Compaq P1110 is a HP P1110 is a Dell P1110. Exact same monitor, just different logos on the casings.
 
21" is the largest non-sidescreen size for computer monitor CRTs yes, there are some that are billed as 22", its more or less the same thing (Theres some HUGE TVs out there though)

honestly I've never seen an E530 either, can't help you there (that F520+FW900 picture will keep me up at night though), if its relatively inexpensive (say $100 US or less) based on its specs, and its in good shape, I'd say go for it, it'll be a good monitor (Trinitrons in general are good monitors, I just don't know if its "Best ever" or what, but it'll do what you want)
 
Skakruk said:
I've seen 2070SB's listed here for NZD$70 (very cheap). That FP2141SB must be brand new, right? If it was I'd personally be tempted to pay $730 for it - It's not like there are any better new monitors available...
Click to expand...

I believe it is a refurb.

The FP2141SB was regarded as one of the best CRTs ever made, iirc, so I figured that would be about the price. I think (I can't remember for sure) the shipping was something like $85. I still remember buying mine new at CompUSA with my employee discount for about $350. Those were the days! LOL
 
Get a CRT for that. There's nothing like a spare if your main monitor fries, anyway.
 
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