reliability-sensitive 2500k build

[fartq]

this is a continuation of http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1595764&highlight=cheapest

my laptop decided to take several craps on me, so i've been able to justify upping my budget to cover both starcraft and more productive pursuits. i will be basing the build on an i5-2500k that i bought today (finally passed by a microcenter -- huzzah)

working draft:
2500k
p8p67 (or pro)
4gb crucial no heatsink
6850 next to go on sale?
wireless?

amended answers below:

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

gaming: starcraft 2, strategy/tactical and casual games (civ5, sam & max, etc)

productivity: closest workload match is very cpu-heavy compilation -- large working sets (size more important than latency or bandwidth)

because i will be using this for work, i will require rock-solid reliability and i would like to maximize macos compatibility

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

i expect it to come in at about 3-400 incl tax and ship for a config that includes minimal optional parts (4gb ram, etc). if more, there should be a good reason or the extra cost should come from scaling something justifiable (ie, ram)

3) Where do you live?

socal, but for various reasons the machine will be partially assembled in WA and shipped down.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

mobo, ram (4gb min, 8gb OK, more better), gpu, wireless

cpu is NOT included because i've already purchased it.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

lian li a05, fortron zen 400w psu, thermalright hr-01, accelero s1r2 if applicable, a disk of some kind (i have many), monitor

i am noise sensitive in that i will eventually go through the effort to make everything near silent, but silencing parts do _not_ need to be covered in this budget. i'm open to replacing the zen for higher power capacity, but only with a part of greater reliability.

6) Will you be overclocking?

yes. i want to apply the maximal overclock that retains long-term reliability.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

1600x1200

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

now

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.

have to have: heavy duty 100% reliable power delivery, everything else

would like: esata, intel iface controllers (nic, sata, etc) wherever possible

a plus: firewire, usb3

don't care: xfire/sli, dumb software raid controllers

10) OS?

already have all necessary licenses.

 

[Dangman]

Since you don't want SLI, no reason to get the Pro version of the Asus P67 series motherboards. You'll be fine with the base Asus P67 version or the base MSI P67 motherboards. Do note that some Asus P67 motherboards have a bit of a QC issue

If you wish to reuse your current PSU, then I do not recommend getting the HD 6850 at all. At best, I recommend using the HD 5550 or HD 5570 which should be better than the onboard but are still rather crappy for gaming. The problem with that PSU is three-fold:
1) No actual proper review of that PSU
2) It's not a matter of a 400W PSU being too low for a HD 6850: A good quality 400W PSU with the right amount of amperage on the +12V rail would be enough. Problem is there is no information whatsoever about the total amperage on the +12V rail. At best, we know it has at least 14A on the +12V rail, which is far far too low for
3) It's four years old. We don't know the quality of that PSU so we really can't say if it can still power that system well.

If you want the HD 6850 1GB, then I recommend upgrading to this PSU:
$64 - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W PSU

I'm more than willing to bet that above Antec PSU is of far better quality and therefore reliability than that FSP. However if you want to match the FSP's noise level, then you will have to up your budget to get this PSU:
$160 - Seasonic SS-460FL 460W Fanless PSU

Another good and quiet choice:
$146 - Seasonic X650 Gold 650W Modular PSU

RAM wise, I recommend this RAM:
$41 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

Wireless wise, I recommend this NIC:
$28 - Asus PCE-N13 Wireless Adapter

 

[fartq]

> "You'll be fine with the base Asus P67 version or the base MSI P67 motherboards. Do note that some Asus P67 motherboards have a bit of a QC issue"

I thought I'd seen on OCN that MSI voltage regulators were particularly bad. Is this not true? Also, do you have a link for asus qc issues? are there any similar issues for with the gigabyte models?

re: p8p67 pro. realtek is the bane of my existence and would prefer an intel nic if it's only a few dollars more.

> re: power supply

the psu is high quality, but an older design. it appears twice in the spcr torture test (although one of theirs was defective)

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1063-page6.html (dual 12v, electrically the same as the fortron branded version)

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1063-page7.html (single 12v version)

it has a fair amount of incidental airflow in the a05 and has been tested up to the rated limits recently. basically, i'm not particularly worried up to 300-350w (assuming 130w on the graphics 12v). above that i'm not all that confident.

so, a 6850 i think it can handle. i don't think it could handle the 2500k overclocked to the limit. a mild overclock would probably not be an issue.

my first choice psu would be an x-650, for sure. without another newegg coupon though it's pretty darn pricey, and i'm not sure what the next step down is. i'm not crazy about antec anymore, and the neo series is really old. are there any slightly more affordable single rail dc-dc designs?

eta: any word on the xfx core series? (650, 750?) it seems like it should maintain the reliability of the seasonic x at a much lower price-point..

 

[Dangman]

> "You'll be fine with the base Asus P67 version or the base MSI P67 motherboards. Do note that some Asus P67 motherboards have a bit of a QC issue"

I thought I'd seen on OCN that MSI voltage regulators were particularly bad. Is this not true? Also, do you have a link for asus qc issues? are there any similar issues for with the gigabyte models?

Nah haven't heard of MSI having bad voltage regulators on this forum. Probably not true though based on the reviews I've see. Just look through this forum as well as the motherboard subforum and you'll see that people are having trouble with their Asus p67 motherboards. Gigabyte mobos seems to be pretty solid except for the fact that they still use the old BIOs design

re: p8p67 pro. realtek is the bane of my existence and would prefer an intel nic if it's only a few dollars more.

Yeah do a search for that mobo in this subforum and the motherboard subforum and you'll see why I'm hesistant in recommending that motherboard.

> re: power supply

the psu is high quality, but an older design. it appears twice in the spcr torture test (although one of theirs was defective)

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1063-page6.html (dual 12v, electrically the same as the fortron branded version)

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1063-page7.html (single 12v version)

Unfortunately those are not valid reviews. SPCR has pretty inconsistent and inaccurate ripple tests. So while yes their tests do prove that the PSUs can hit their rated load, it does not show if they can provide their rated load without hurting the PC. That's what ripple measurement shows. IN addition, the Silverstone you linked to is made by Etasis, not FSP. Etasis makese significantly better quality PSUs than FSP.

eta: any word on the xfx core series? (650, 750?) it seems like it should maintain the reliability of the seasonic x at a much lower price-point..

The XFX core series PSUs are pretty good with the exception of the 850W models.

 

[fartq]

Nah haven't heard of MSI having bad voltage regulators on this forum. Probably not true though based on the reviews I've see. Just look through this forum as well as the motherboard subforum and you'll see that people are having trouble with their Asus p67 motherboards. Gigabyte mobos seems to be pretty solid except for the fact that they still use the old BIOs design

yes, i did see a few threads that looked like firmware issues. i was hoping those were isolated cases...

Yeah do a search for that mobo in this subforum and the motherboard subforum and you'll see why I'm hesistant in recommending that motherboard.

point taken. hmm, i wonder where all the dp67bgb3s are..

Unfortunately those are not valid reviews. SPCR has pretty inconsistent and inaccurate ripple tests. So while yes their tests do prove that the PSUs can hit their rated load, it does not show if they can provide their rated load without hurting the PC. That's what ripple measurement shows. IN addition, the Silverstone you linked to is made by Etasis, not FSP. Etasis makese significantly better quality PSUs than FSP.

ah, i see, i see.. back to seasonic it is then.

The XFX core series PSUs are pretty good with the exception of the 850W models.

unfortunately i decided today that i don't want to screw around with any more non-modulars. sigh, guess i will be ponying up.

 

[Dangman]

ah, i see, i see.. back to seasonic it is then.

unfortunately i decided today that i don't want to screw around with any more non-modulars. sigh, guess i will be ponying up.

Well if you need the PSU to be that quiet, there are good modular PSUs in the $100 price range:
$90 - XFX P1-650X-CAH9 650W Modular PSU

The above XFX 650W Modular PSU is similar to the Seasonic X-650 but not as quiet and not as high quality. But for the price, it's an excellent choice.

 

[fartq]

update: i've purchased several components (huzzah). here is the component selection so far

re-using:
heatsink: thermalright hr-01
ram: g.skill F3-10666CL9S-8GBRL (2x4)
case: lian li a-05b
monitor: 1600x1200

purchased:
cpu: i5-2500k (200)
psu: seasonic x750 (110)
motherboard: p8p67 pro (found it for 150 and couldn't resist, sorry danny!)

i will be buying all remaining parts this week

still need:
video:

i'm set on getting either a 5 or 6 series radeon for macos compatibility. i'd also prefer to get something that will retain playable framerates at resolutions up to 2560x1440 (with settings turned down if needed), as i'd like to upgrade to a u2711 at some point, probably next year.

it looks like my options are the following:

reference 5770: 100$ AR
sapphire 5850 extreme: 140$
sapphire 6850 (not toxic): 140$ AR
asus 6870 directCU: 180$ AR

i've heard the 6950 reference cooler, and it's definitely too loud, so that's out of my price range.

any opinions on these? i'm leaning toward the sapphire 6850 at this point due to reports that it's among the quietest cards above a 5770. further, the 5770 seems like it would become a bit too slow too quickly, and i'm unsure if the 6870 is simply overbuying for my needs. i'm not entirely sure where the 5850 fits

interestingly, the prices seem to scale pretty linearly with performance, but unfortunately that makes things harder for me, as there's no sweet spot to default to.

 

[Dangman]

The HD 5850 is in between the HD 6850 and HD 6870 in performance. However that's the case now. That may end changing due to AMD's driver support policies.

For that high of a resolution, you need every ounce of GPU performance possible. So the 6870 is the BARE MINIMUM I'd recommend for 2560x1440 and is just right for 1600x1200. I would not recommend going with that HD 6850 at all due to the 2 year warranty

 

[fartq]

thanks danny. looked further into the 5850 and ended up ordering it; it seems to be ridiculously more efficient than the 68xx series in starcraft 2 with current drivers. if i up my resolution (which is looking increasingly unlikely, to be quite honest), i'm ok with turning down options or with putting aftermarket cooling on and OCing the crap out of the thing.

everything is on its way now and i'll build next week. super excited! thanks for all your help!