Reliability - custom vs store bought (SFF)

[1911Shootist]

I've been tasked with replacing a custom built PC workstation for the repair shop I run.

Given that the 2 custom builds we've had have had a PSU fail and now a mobo flaking out in the other computer, I am wondering if it is just best, for ultimate reliability, to go with a Dell workstation (SFF/uSSF Optiplex 9010). The boss is understandably frustrated.

The few builds I've considered are:
ITX or mATX (would like it to sit on desk, behind monitors in a corner)

ITX:
Asus P8H77I
i3-3225 (for HD4000 graphics and low heat)
8GB Corsair XMS3 or Vengeance LP (I wish the Samsung LP's were still available!)
Seasonic SSR-360GP 80+Gold
Samsung 840 120GB SSD
External USB DVD drive (Asus?)
Win7 HP 64
Asus PCIe (PCE-N15) wireless adapter
Lian-Li PC-Q03B or DIYPC/Jonsbo V3+ case

--or--
same build in Silverstone SG05-300 (but slightly concerned about PSU reliability compared to ATX PSU)

mATX:
Asus P8H77-M/CSM
i3-3225
8GB Corsair XMS3 or Vengeance LP
Seasonic SSR-360GP 80+Gold
Samsung 840 120GB SSD
External USB DVD drive (Asus?)
Win7 HP 64
Asus PCIe (PCE-N15) wireless adapter
Case TBD (maybe reuse current SG02)

TLDR: I'm pondering wether a custom built PC with quality components can have same/better reliability than a quality store bought system. Also SFF if that matters...

Thanks for the help guys - I just need some impartial input.

 

[dogbert_2001]

This is like asking a cooking forum whether homemade or store bought is better.

 

[Zepher]

Both can fail at anytime.
I've built quite a few pc's, a few hundred I'd guesstimate in the past 18 years.
Most have become obsolete before they failed.

 

[1911Shootist]

This is like asking a cooking forum whether homemade or store bought is better.

LOL, true enough. We also have many IT guys on this forum that are responsible for deploying and maintaining fleets of computers, so I thought they may have some good info.

 

[1911Shootist]

Both can fail at anytime.
I've built quite a few pc's, a few hundred I'd guesstimate in the past 18 years.
Most have become obsolete before they failed.

I've only built 15-20 systems, and have had a few PSU's go down (have since learned to only use top quality PSU's - i.e. Seasonic) but I've had 4 mobo's fail (1 cheap, others decent).

The boss is a little biased toward Dell because we still have several old 775 boxes still running, and maybe only 1 or 2 issues with them out of ~10 computers over the last 10+ years...

 

[Dangman]

If you're buying from a solid OEM like Dell and choose decent parts for the DIY setup, their reliability is going to be roughly the same in my experience.

 

[1911Shootist]

Thanks Danny.

Do you think this parts list is top quality? Feature set is fine, reliability is most important:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-3225 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus P8H77-I Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard ($114.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: Asus PCE-N15 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($26.99 @ Newegg)
Case: DIYPC V3Plus-B Mini ITX Tower Case ($58.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 360W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($65.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $686.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-05 15:18 EDT-0400)

This is just a workstation, fairly low load, dual monitor (DVI & VGA).

 

[Dangman]

As a whole, that setup is mostly ok with the exception of the case: It doesn't look like it has decent/sufficient cooling. I'd look at another case like the Silverstone SG05 series, Coolermaster Elite 120, etc.

Pricing though, that setup is overpriced for what it is.

 

[1911Shootist]

I'm tempted to go for another SG05, but I'm leaning more towards a case that can take an ATX PSU, so I can get better efficiency, higher quality (questionable - Seasonic vs Silverstone), and better ventilation (using PSU as exhaust fan). The DIYPC V3+ has better ventilation than the Lian Li PC-Q03B, which is another top contender...

As for overpriced - where would you cut corners without sacrificing reliability?

 

[Dangman]

I recommend this RAM for $15 less:
$55 - Corsair CMV8GX3M1A1333C9 8GB DDR3 1333 RAM

That mobo can be had for $12 cheaper at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007RIFLVQ/?tag=extension-kb-20

That Seasonic 360W is overpriced considering that $14 more gets you its larger and, more importantly due to your mITX requirement, modular brother:
$80 - Seasonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W Modular PSU

That SSD is $10 cheaper over at Amazon:
$99 - Samsung 840 120GB SSD

Case wise, never been a big fan of the Lian Li PC-Q3B, especially now that it's been discontinued. The Coolermaster ELite 120 does fit a standard ATX PSU by the way. The Lian Li PC-Q08B is also another recommendation.

CPU wise, not sure why you need the HD 4000 exactly. Often times I rarely see good reasons to get the Core i3 3225. Assuming that's the case here, I recommend getting the Core i3 3220 for $30 less:
$110 - Intel Core i3-3220 CPU

Alternatively, there's the quad-core Core i5 3330 for $40 more than the Core i3 3225:
$182 - Intel Core i5-3330 CPU

You can see why I don't think the Core i3 3225 is a good choice in general unless there's a really good reason for it like a MAME cabinet or something. Most of the "price cuts" you saw was simply due to getting the same parts from Amazon.com rather than Newegg.com.

 

[1911Shootist]

Ah, gotcha. I just listed the Newegg prices because they have all of the components, so it cleans up the build list.

I'm not a big fan of the CM 120, too gamey looking for the office, and not much smaller than the current SG02.

I lean towards the 3225 just for the slight bump in graphics capability. If you're going w/onboard, why limit yourself for just a few bucks?

Price isn't a major concern. I'm think $700 to $750 is fine.

Thanks for the help & insights.

 

[Dangman]

I lean towards the 3225 just for the slight bump in graphics capability. If you're going w/onboard, why limit yourself for just a few bucks?

I'd agree with that if it was only a "few bucks". But for $30? That's not a few bucks. Not worth it IMO.

 

[E4g1e]

I lean towards the 3225 just for the slight bump in graphics capability. If you're going w/onboard, why limit yourself for just a few bucks?

I've also checked both Newegg and Amazon for the prices of both the i3-3220 and the i3-3225. With a promo code that ends later today which discounts the price by $20, the i3-3220 actually costs $30 less than the i3-3225 even at Newegg. (At regular price, the price difference between the two is only $10, as you implied.) At Amazon, the i3-3225 (at $136 shipped) still costs $26 more than the 3220.

 

[1911Shootist]

Does the HD4000 get you as good of a performance increase as a $30 discrete card? If so, or even close, it is worth it to have it integrated and not waste a precious PCI slot if that slight bump is needed later in life.

 

[Dangman]

Does the HD4000 get you as good of a performance increase as a $30 discrete card? If so, or even close, it is worth it to have it integrated and not waste a precious PCI slot if that slight bump is needed later in life.

The HD 2500 already gives you the performance level of a $40 to $50 card in games. So yes the HD 4000 will provide more performance than a $50 card. But that's only noticeable in games. For every day general use? You won't notice a difference.

 

[1911Shootist]

Good to know. I'm probably biased because the boss had me put a 6670 in the current machine so he could play some Tiger Woods game after hours. He says he's done, as EA is pulling support for the game, but I know he'll probably want to play a driving or golf sim again someday...

Better to have and not need as the saying goes...

 

[techbob]

Does the HD4000 get you as good of a performance increase as a $30 discrete card? If so, or even close, it is worth it to have it integrated and not waste a precious PCI slot if that slight bump is needed later in life.

Also consider that on board graphics uses some of the PC's RAM, So less memory is available. That said, I still use on board graphics. And increase the system RAM.

 

[1911Shootist]

I keep flipping between the SG05-300 and other ITX cases w/ATX PSU's...

New question: If you had to pick one for ultimate reliability, would you go with:
A. Silverstone SG05 w/300W SFX PSU
or
B. Other case with Seasonic SSR-360GP ATX PSU

Again, cost is not a concern in this matter.

Thanks again everybody!

 

[ToddW2]

Cooling is most important for longevity in my experience.

My common problems with Dell systems: HD Failure & Fan Failure

Keep the fans cleaned out, and replace when they get loud.

With that said I've deployed a lot of dells and custom over the years and custom has always lasted longer, and had less problems. However, we are talking 500-600 Dell systems compared to 900$+ custom systems as when I do custom the parts are TOP notch.

I have some Dells from YEARS ago still running as well as P4s and other custom systems that have been OCd 5+ Years running stable 24/7 for the first 3+.

PSU fail if you run 24/7 since I've powered off nightly in the last 5 years i've had 0 fail.
(And I always thought I'd get less failures with less on/off cycles)

What it comes down to FOR ME today.

1. Dell is for people I rarely saw or we were more acquaintances than friends, or they don't have at-least $1200 to spend.

2. Custom is for people who have the $ to spend or want higher performance or want a system to use for 5 years.

#1 = You can get Dell Support to handle their issues, complaints, and headache.
#2 = People who PAY you for the support, #1 group normally can't afford 90/hr+ 2hr minimum for their 600$ computer.

Do what is EASIER on you.

 

[Dangman]

New question: If you had to pick one for ultimate reliability, would you go with:
A. Silverstone SG05 w/300W SFX PSU
or
B. Other case with Seasonic SSR-360GP ATX PSU

Depends on the case you're using with B. Some of the mITX cases that can fit ATX PSUs are case I would not recommend for longevity.

 

[1911Shootist]

The case with B would be the V3+. If CPU idle & normal load temps are over ~45*C, I would add an intake fan on the bottom, so don't let lack of airflow influence your judgement too much.

If I go with an SG05, I will probably have the front fan running ~600-700rpm under normal circumstances.

With either case being ~10.5L, it doesn't take much flow to exchange the air quickly for good cooling.

My question is pointed at PSU reliability with all else being equal - I just don't know how much I can trust the Silverstone 300W SFX unit.

 

[Dangman]

The case with B would be the V3+. If CPU idle & normal load temps are over ~45*C, I would add an intake fan on the bottom, so don't let lack of airflow influence your judgement too much..

Still affects my judgement: I still don't think even an intake fan at the bottom would help out that much with that case. As such, taken as a whole, I would say that the reliability of both setups would be the same.

My question is pointed at PSU reliability with all else being equal - I just don't know how much I can trust the Silverstone 300W SFX unit.

Assuming that both setups had a good case with good cooling, the Seasonc would have a higher chance of reliability and stability. It is of significantly higher quality than the Silverstone 300W SFX. With that said, the 300W SFX is still decent enough for a light system.

But pair that Seasonic with a case like that V3+ and you're going to see almost the same system reliability IMO.

 

[1911Shootist]

Wound up going with the best of both worlds...

Took your cooling advice to heart Danny, but was still to weary of the noise and reliability of the SFX PSU so I decided to go with the SG05-Lite that will be modded to run the full size ATX PSU! Since I don't need any HDD's other than the SSD, no ODD, and will be using the stock CPU cooler, this plan makes sense. The PSU will easily fit, I'll have plenty of room for the non-modular cable to be out of the way, and it'll flow a ton of air quietly

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-3225 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus P8H77-I Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard ($114.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($64.80 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($100.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: Asus PCE-N15 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($26.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Silverstone SG05BB-LITE Mini ITX Tower Case ($47.98 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Arctic Cooling Arctic F12 PWM 57.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($9.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 360W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($63.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $669.69
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-25 12:34 EDT-0400)

 

[Dangman]

Good luck with the build!