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Refresh rate on an LCD. Does it matter?
- Thread starter Rob94hawk
- Start date
LCD monitors do not work on "refresh rates". At least not in the same way CRT monitors did.
The only diffrence would be when you use Vsync in games, and i have not tried this yet.
Also, at higher refresh rates, some monitors will distort a little.... or not look as clear.
~Hope this helps
The only diffrence would be when you use Vsync in games, and i have not tried this yet.
Also, at higher refresh rates, some monitors will distort a little.... or not look as clear.
~Hope this helps
I have the l2335 monitor running at native resolution (1920x1200 60hz). Because the refresh rate is 60hz does that mean anything over 60 fps does not matter? The lcd can only display 60 correct?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole refresh rate/fps combo. I know vsync would match up fps with your refresh rate but will the lcd display the fps over 60?
For example: If I play quake3 at 200fps does that mean I'm really seeing 200fps? Or is my monitor only displaying 60fps because of the refresh rate?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole refresh rate/fps combo. I know vsync would match up fps with your refresh rate but will the lcd display the fps over 60?
For example: If I play quake3 at 200fps does that mean I'm really seeing 200fps? Or is my monitor only displaying 60fps because of the refresh rate?
Its kinda tricky to say the least.
In a game, lets say it wants to switch from a pure black screen to a pure white screen.
On some LCD monitors, it takes 16ms to switch the pixel. LCD monitors switch every pixel only when they are needed. Thus if the game wants the white screen on for 30 seconds, it will keep each pixle on for 30 seconds.
A CRT shoots electrons at the screen. The electron gun shoots a very small area at a time, and it moves vertically. This is what a "refresh rate is". how long it takes till the next electron hits a specific pixel is measured in Hz... so lets say the monitor is at 100Hz, that should mean that the pixle will be refreshed every 1ms.
Now, although a game can display 300 frames per second, that does'nt mean the monitor can. And, there are a lot of people out there who say anything above 60fps is pointless... as our eye's can only really detect 60fps (im not sure if this is true, i did'nt do the research ^_^). I guess to produce a frame rate of 300fps, the monitor would need a refresh rate of about 0.3ms or 300Hz.
If you play quake 3 at 200fps, that's how fast the computer can process the game, but when it comes down to it, the LCD monitor can't change pixles that fast.
~Hope this helps a little
In a game, lets say it wants to switch from a pure black screen to a pure white screen.
On some LCD monitors, it takes 16ms to switch the pixel. LCD monitors switch every pixel only when they are needed. Thus if the game wants the white screen on for 30 seconds, it will keep each pixle on for 30 seconds.
A CRT shoots electrons at the screen. The electron gun shoots a very small area at a time, and it moves vertically. This is what a "refresh rate is". how long it takes till the next electron hits a specific pixel is measured in Hz... so lets say the monitor is at 100Hz, that should mean that the pixle will be refreshed every 1ms.
Now, although a game can display 300 frames per second, that does'nt mean the monitor can. And, there are a lot of people out there who say anything above 60fps is pointless... as our eye's can only really detect 60fps (im not sure if this is true, i did'nt do the research ^_^). I guess to produce a frame rate of 300fps, the monitor would need a refresh rate of about 0.3ms or 300Hz.
If you play quake 3 at 200fps, that's how fast the computer can process the game, but when it comes down to it, the LCD monitor can't change pixles that fast.
~Hope this helps a little
pureevilmatt
n00b
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2004
- Messages
- 59
I work in front of an LCD 9 hours a day, and have a 21inch fixed frequency CRT for gaming/general use at home. I run a resolution of 1280x1024 on both. I definitely notice a difference between 60Hz and 75Hz on the LCD. So much so, that I can't use it for longer than ~30 mins if the refresh rate isn't 75Hz.
HecHacker1
n00b
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2004
- Messages
- 51
If I remember correctly, having a higher refresh rate does help on newer lcd monitors because they have only begun to have fast enough displays to update the information along with the refresh rate.
Let me see if my math is right. I have seen this somewhere before, and it made sense there.
So lets say you have a lcd that has a response time of 25ms, then using a little math, the inverse of 25ms is 40. Therefore the lcd can display a maximum of 40fps becaues it is limited to how fast it phyically can change the pixels, no matter if the refresh rate is higher.
I can see this happening with my older 30ms Samsung panel that I have. Even with Vsync on I still see tearing occuring because the monitor just can't keep up, not even with the default 60Hz.
So, with a little math:
A 16ms panel can display a maximum of 62.5fps
A 12ms panel = 83.3 fps
It's interesting to see that most LCD's limit their refresh rate from 60 to 75Hz. At 75Hz you would need a 13.3ms panel (1 divided by 75 = 13.3ms) in order to match perfectly. 75Hz for a 12ms panel is actually too slow by 8fps.
I do notice that It helps me to put my refresh rate higher on my 16ms panel because for some reason I get the feeling that there is less lag, but it could be the placebo effect. I don't see any harm in raising your refresh rate above 60Hz as long as your panel supports it and you don't notice any quality issues. With a VGA connection I notice that I get noise and blurryness in text if I raise my refresh rate above 60Hz, although I don't notice that in games. DVI should be different.
then again... I could be completely wrong.
Let me see if my math is right. I have seen this somewhere before, and it made sense there.
So lets say you have a lcd that has a response time of 25ms, then using a little math, the inverse of 25ms is 40. Therefore the lcd can display a maximum of 40fps becaues it is limited to how fast it phyically can change the pixels, no matter if the refresh rate is higher.
I can see this happening with my older 30ms Samsung panel that I have. Even with Vsync on I still see tearing occuring because the monitor just can't keep up, not even with the default 60Hz.
So, with a little math:
A 16ms panel can display a maximum of 62.5fps
A 12ms panel = 83.3 fps
It's interesting to see that most LCD's limit their refresh rate from 60 to 75Hz. At 75Hz you would need a 13.3ms panel (1 divided by 75 = 13.3ms) in order to match perfectly. 75Hz for a 12ms panel is actually too slow by 8fps.
I do notice that It helps me to put my refresh rate higher on my 16ms panel because for some reason I get the feeling that there is less lag, but it could be the placebo effect. I don't see any harm in raising your refresh rate above 60Hz as long as your panel supports it and you don't notice any quality issues. With a VGA connection I notice that I get noise and blurryness in text if I raise my refresh rate above 60Hz, although I don't notice that in games. DVI should be different.
then again... I could be completely wrong.
pureevilmatt
n00b
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2004
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- 59
On most LCDs at 60Hz, I can see a "wavyness" that slowly progresses down the screen. I guess this is a cascade of the pixels refreshing or something. (the effect is like when you film a CRT, only really subtle) This is easiest seen on a white background. Also, scrolling a webpage is horrible at 60Hz, makes me feel sick. At 75Hz, the wavyness is gone and the brightnest areas of the page just look more "solid". The scrolling problem is still there, but it's not nearly as bad.
I've never had any tearing in games on an LCD, but at low refresh rates I do get tracers. (blurring of moving lights).
If you're not gonna be running your LCD at native resolution and refresh, it's definitely best to run it at the highest refresh that any given resolution will allow.
I've never had any tearing in games on an LCD, but at low refresh rates I do get tracers. (blurring of moving lights).
If you're not gonna be running your LCD at native resolution and refresh, it's definitely best to run it at the highest refresh that any given resolution will allow.
It doesnt matter what refresh rate an LCD gets thats what we all know.
But we DO need games to run higher than 60fps, so it would be great if LCD's could run a little higher than 60Hz.
The main reason SOME games need higher than 60fps is because these game engines requires an optimium fps to run the game correctly.
I dont know if this affects any new games or just old ones, but Quake 3 requires 125fps to be able to trick jump properly. Counter-strike MUST HAVE 100fps or you will not fire as fast. UT has different requirements for shock-rifle, jumps and sniper rifle I think.
Of course DVI 60Hz is ok with vsync off, but the amount of tearing and effects that people confuse with ghosting on an LCD make vsync a terrible option to use for games.
In the end DVI needs updated and brought into line with what consumers want and not what the industry thinks consumers need.
But we DO need games to run higher than 60fps, so it would be great if LCD's could run a little higher than 60Hz.
The main reason SOME games need higher than 60fps is because these game engines requires an optimium fps to run the game correctly.
I dont know if this affects any new games or just old ones, but Quake 3 requires 125fps to be able to trick jump properly. Counter-strike MUST HAVE 100fps or you will not fire as fast. UT has different requirements for shock-rifle, jumps and sniper rifle I think.
Of course DVI 60Hz is ok with vsync off, but the amount of tearing and effects that people confuse with ghosting on an LCD make vsync a terrible option to use for games.
In the end DVI needs updated and brought into line with what consumers want and not what the industry thinks consumers need.
MuadDib420
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2004
- Messages
- 73
i think it's a great time to get into LCDs. most response times are in the 12ms range now. viewsonic's 20.1inch vp201 series is selling at 860-900$ most places online. i'm lucky we have a tiger direct store in my town and i didn't even have to pay for shipping 
even with vsync on in D3, i don't notice any 'ghosting.' vsync off is practically unplayble because of the wicked tearing.
i guess u could wait for the 9ns lcds coming out (next year?), but then you'd be paying a lot more of course.
even with vsync on in D3, i don't notice any 'ghosting.' vsync off is practically unplayble because of the wicked tearing.
i guess u could wait for the 9ns lcds coming out (next year?), but then you'd be paying a lot more of course.
So, in other words, if the lcd is at native resolution it will be stuck at 60hz, but if you change the resolution to 1024x768 then you can change the refresh rate to 75?
Question: If we leave it at 1600x1200 when not playing games, but we opt to change the resolution to 1024x768 in the game will the refresh rate automatically change with that?
Question: If we leave it at 1600x1200 when not playing games, but we opt to change the resolution to 1024x768 in the game will the refresh rate automatically change with that?