Recommendations for high quality layer 3 switch

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SignalPST

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I need recommendations for a good 24 or 26 port layer 3 switch.

My situation is this:
Just a few weeks ago, I hosted a LAN Party with about 20 computers using a SMC 16port switch uplinked to a Ovislink NWAY 16port switch(old devices).

From the start, I was hoping that this setup would hold up to the bandwidth necessary for a smooth 2 days of gaming.

But as it turned out, with about 16 players playing unreal tournament, the whole network began to lag horribly. Funny thing was that every comp was lagging not just the computers on the other side of the server switch.

Later on, when I told some people to disconnect from the game, and left about
9 comps connected, the lag would then gradually disappear.

It couldn't have been the network cables as I got 25 of 25feet CAT5e cables from Newegg just before, and I had tested each of them out and there were no problems.
During the LAN party, I even had a dedicated server setup consisting of a 2.4GHz CPU,
1GB DDR400, and integrated 100Mbps NIC, so it wasn't my server’s lag.
Most comps were using winxp and were 1GHz CPU or above, and all had 100Mbps LAN NIC's, so lag wasn’t from the computers.

So after much online reading, I’ve determine that the source of the lag are the switches, and so here I am, ready to shell out big bucks for a new layer 3 switch. Hopefully all of you will give me some good suggestions on this important purchase.

The one I’m currently looking at is the Linksys EF1324.
http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=35&prid=500

It has 24 100Mbps ports plus 2 Gigabit ports, layer 3 of course. I figured one of the Gigabit ports will serve as my future server port and the second gigabit port can serve as an uplink port when my LAN parties get bigger. By the way, my budget is around $900.

Any recommendations for another product or advice would be much appreciated, thank you.
 
If all the client gaming systems were lagging as you say, that tells me there is a bottleneck either in the network or the server. Without doing some kind of monitoring of the network usage and server resources it's anybody's guess as to what will fix the problem.

You really should monitor things the next time you have a LAN party to pinpoint the problem before spending money on a switch that may not solve your problem.
 
Can't do much better for the price:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51267&item=5718114494&rd=1

64ports and some 2 fiber gigabit ports. Expandable =)

-Edit-
Just a bit more info on above switch. It is layer 3, with reported 7gbit backplain.
7gbit is prob too slow.

Read up on the 'faster' switches out there.
HP pro-curve 48port has 10.1 million pps ; 13.6gbit
*http://www.hp.com/rnd/products/switches/switch2600series/overview.htm
Extreme networks 48port has 10.1 million pps ; 17.5gbit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=71521&item=5718482786&rd=1

Good luck to you on your choices.
 
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My guess is your bottle neck was the link between the 2 switchs. you could look into a 3Com, as I have heard they are good for the money, and you might find a good deal on ebay?
 
Why layer 3? You don't exactly need to route to different networks.
 
yeah.. we run all dumb switches.. no fancy management needed..

we run 4 24port linksys with a gige uplink port to a 16 port gige switch. all the servers go on the 16 port gige switch and then out to the 24's..

*gotta love easy network tapography*
 
I hate anything Linksys.

I only buy D-Link, I get wicked deals. I bought 2 Dlink Managed switches with Gigabit got a third one Free :)
 
Why do you want a managed switch? It takes some technical know-how to configure one correctly. I would prolly get some unmanaged switch with a gigabit uplink if I were you. D-Link 1026G comes to mind.
 
i dont see any need for a layer three switch whatsoever. all your hosts are going to be on the same network. a switch capable of operating at layer three will just add uneccesary cost to your equipment to provide functionality you will simply never use.

as already suggested, the hp procurve range are excellent layer two switches and are very cost effective. im in the u.k. and the manageable flavour of these (2524) can be had for £185 at the moment. thats twentyfour 10/100 ports with two transceiver ports which will accept a range of copper or fibre interfaces running at various speeds. also, lifetime warranty with next day swap out should you be unlucky enough to have one fail.

you could save a few quid and get a 2324 which is the unmanageable version of the same switch ... because at the end of the day the only management feature you will probably use is giving it an ip address and looking at the pretty pictures the web interface gives you.

also, if you do get the hp stuff make sure you load the latest software on it (F.05.22 i believe) as this has quite a few fixes particularly relating to 'slowness' when using certain brands of nics. there was also quite a buggy version which you should avoid (F.04.08 i believe) which causes the switch to randomly do a warm reload ... which is nice!

hth.
 
atomiser said:
i dont see any need for a layer three switch whatsoever. all your hosts are going to be on the same network. a switch capable of operating at layer three will just add uneccesary cost to your equipment to provide functionality you will simply never use.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I was puzzled by this as well.
 
Veeb0rg said:
yeah.. we run all dumb switches.. no fancy management needed..

we run 4 24port linksys with a gige uplink port to a 16 port gige switch. all the servers go on the 16 port gige switch and then out to the 24's..

*gotta love easy network tapography*
Click to expand...

u mean topology by any chance? :p
 
Hi everybody, thanks for your thoughtful replies.

The reason I’m looking for a high quality layer 3 switch to host my future LAN parties is because of their reliability and speed. I’ve read so much about how they handle traffic using IP address instead of MAC address, plus the fact that their overall platform performs very efficiently than regular layer 2 switches through faster handling of pps(packets per second) and abundant backplane bandwidth. It’s true that I have no need to mess with any VLAN, setup any VPN, or whatever else the layer 3 can offer, but the fact that I wanted a lag free, collision free, and fast network for my LAN parties justifies my willingness to purchase a high quality and expensive layer 3 switch. In addition, when my LAN parties continue to grow, say more than 25 to 50 computers, I want to be able to accommodate every one of those traffic needs by being able to uplink two identical of those switches and still have a congestive free network.

So far the Linksys EF1324, around $860, is what the ideal product that I’m looking at.

The bottom line question is, are average layer 2 switches like the $175 D-Link 1026G enough for the type of LAN parties that most people host today? Again, if anybody has any more convincing wisdom or personal testimony about how their medium scale LAN parties(25-50 comps) are setup up, please post about it. Thanks.
 
SignalPST said:
Hi everybody, thanks for your thoughtful replies.

The reason I’m looking for a high quality layer 3 switch to host my future LAN parties is because of their reliability and speed. I’ve read so much about how they handle traffic using IP address instead of MAC address, plus the fact that their overall platform performs very efficiently than regular layer 2 switches through faster handling of pps(packets per second) and abundant backplane bandwidth. It’s true that I have no need to mess with any VLAN, setup any VPN, or whatever else the layer 3 can offer, but the fact that I wanted a lag free, collision free, and fast network for my LAN parties justifies my willingness to purchase a high quality and expensive layer 3 switch. In addition, when my LAN parties continue to grow, say more than 25 to 50 computers, I want to be able to accommodate every one of those traffic needs by being able to uplink two identical of those switches and still have a congestive free network.

So far the Linksys EF1324, around $860, is what the ideal product that I’m looking at.

The bottom line question is, are average layer 2 switches like the $175 D-Link 1026G enough for the type of LAN parties that most people host today? Again, if anybody has any more convincing wisdom or personal testimony about how their medium scale LAN parties(25-50 comps) are setup up, please post about it. Thanks.
Click to expand...


your going to pay $860 for a linksys switch. lol you don't need a layer 3 switch. you just need one that is reliable and has a large enough backplane. I'm telling you pickup an Hp procurve switch you won't regret it. You can get an HP 2626 that has 24 10/100 + 2 10/100/100 ports. 13.6Gbps backplane (which is huge for a 10/100 switch). Fully managed for $599. It will smoke that linksys into the ground and then some.
 
i think if it were me i would buy two procurve 2524's, four copper gig interfaces for the procurves, another copper gig interface for the server and then put it in >>this<< sort of configuration.

procurve equipment is very reasonably priced over here at the moment so that would probably be doable for your budget ... not sure about prices of stuff in the u.s of a though.

i do think single layer three switch that costs twice as much as a procurve when its only got the same poke is a bit of a false economy. the fact that its layer three isnt really going to make much difference in your particular application ... imo!

the config that i suggested would buy you more equipment and provide a more flexible solution. plus, additional switches could be installed very easily by breaking out the connection between the two switches and installing another. if you cant stretch to gig between the switches, then these switches support lacp trunks, so just use two or four 100 meg full duplex connections bonded together. (you could even do this with the server instead of using gig interfaces). cheaper and almost as pokey!
 
oakfan52 said:
your going to pay $860 for a linksys switch. lol
Click to expand...

im a linksys supporter full fledge but that is only for their cheaper stuff basics, if im gonna spend some big moola it best be a nice cisco or nortel switch, ebay can be your friend...
 
SignalPST said:
The reason I’m looking for a high quality layer 3 switch to host my future LAN parties is because of their reliability and speed. I’ve read so much about how they handle traffic using IP address instead of MAC address, plus the fact that their overall platform performs very efficiently than regular layer 2 switches through faster handling of pps(packets per second) and abundant backplane bandwidth.
Click to expand...
DANGER WILL ROBINSON! You are being blinded by marketing hype!

1. A Layer 3 device must ROUTE if you expect it to "switch" based on IP addresses. To route a packet, a router must do everything a switch does PLUS it has to read the Layer 3 info and lookup route tables to find the destination... it typically has to do that for every packet.

2. Looking at the PPS specifications to judge a switches performance is like looking at the max speed printed on the speedometer of a car to determine it's performance. A vendor will rarely publish the conditions on how they reached the PPS figure. It all comes down to marketing. Check out this thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=796562

3. Backplane bandwidth is another marketing figure that can be misleading. You could have a switch with a 256Gbps backplane but if it only has 64kb of buffer memory allocated to each port, performance is gonna suck. (this is something that has plagued 3COM switches in the past.)

SignalPST said:
It’s true that I have no need to mess with any VLAN, setup any VPN, or whatever else the layer 3 can offer, but the fact that I wanted a lag free, collision free, and fast network for my LAN parties justifies my willingness to purchase a high quality and expensive layer 3 switch.
Click to expand...
Slow down tiger. L3 switching (really just routing) does NOT prevent lag!!!! In fact, unless you setup VLANS / routing, your Layer 3 switch will ONLY be working at Layer 2. AND you may find that after setting up VLANs and having to route every packet, the lag could get worse!!

Even the best Cisco L3 switch will preform poorly if the NICs and cable that are attached to it are of low quality.
SignalPST said:
It couldn't have been the network cables as I got 25 of 25feet CAT5e cables from Newegg just before, and I had tested each of them out and there were no problems.
Click to expand...
Did you use a quality TDR to test the cables or did you use a continunity tester? Not to knock Newegg but I've put my Pentascanner+ on OEM cables and seen bad results. Just because it's premade, doesn't mean it's perfect.

Take my advice and the advice of most of the other people that responded to this thread.... get a good quality Layer 2 unmanaged switch. (Dell or HP!!!!) Save the money for better NICs and good quality cabling.
 
You need to listen to this guy ^^^^^^^
I think what you really should look into is some good switches with gigabit uplink ports, or if you really want to drop some cash, some big gigabit switches.
 
ipconfig /all said:
Take my advice and the advice of most of the other people that responded to this thread.... get a good quality Layer 2 unmanaged switch. (Dell or HP!!!!) Save the money for better NICs and good quality cabling.
Click to expand...


If you go dell make sure you get an upper end dell or you'll end up with a hunk of crap suited for SOHO.
 
I agree that an L3 switch may be a little over what you "need". I run 2 Cisco 6509's here at work and unless you honestly want to setup VLANS to practice routing in your home I don't see a need. What NICS were in each machine? What was your NIC (in/out) load on the server when it was lagging?

You said you checked those cables. How exactly did you test them. Pentascanners don't lie :D

Lastly
Oakfan, I always wanted to ask this,
MCP means you passed one test
MCSA means you passed another 4
MCSE means you got all 6

Why post them all? That's like me saying
1st grade graduate, 2nd grade graduate, 3rd grade graduate, all the way to UF graduate.

Do I get to say I'm an MCSE, MCSE since I have my NT and 2K certs? :confused:

just wondering :D
 
The only reason I can think of putting all those redundant certs in your sig is to confuse newbies and to impress resume readers. All MCSEs are MCPs.
 
you absolutely do not need layer 3 at all. NM, i think ipconfig /all has covered the bases as to why. btw, if you want a nice dell powerconnect 3048 which is a managed layer 2 switch with 2 GigE ports and 48 10/100 ports then PM or EM me. i can let you have it for like $300. it will do everything you want and has the benefit of being stackable allowing the future expansion you want.

i think this dell even has some warranty left.
 
typhoon43 said:
Lastly
Oakfan, I always wanted to ask this,
MCP means you passed one test
MCSA means you passed another 4
MCSE means you got all 6

Why post them all? That's like me saying
1st grade graduate, 2nd grade graduate, 3rd grade graduate, all the way to UF graduate.

Do I get to say I'm an MCSE, MCSE since I have my NT and 2K certs? :confused:

just wondering :D
Click to expand...
Not to derail but oak is displaying his certs pretty close to accurate. Even though the MCSA program involves several exams that may be used for the MSCE it is still different enough to technically be a different cert. As for the MCP, this should only be used if you have passed an exam outside of your certification track. Example: Having your MCSE but also having passed an additional exam on Exchange you could say MCSE with MCP in exchange. Oh and yes you do get to say you're an MCSE twice. The NT and 2k programs are different and therefore you are certified in both. You should display it as MCSE: NT and 2000 or something like that.
 
ipconfig /all said:
DANGER WILL ROBINSON! You are being blinded by marketing hype! <snip>
Click to expand...
Finally someone that put it all together for this guy. I was going to post something like this but you saved me from it! :D
 
Wow, thanks for your input ipconfig /all. I guess I’ve read too much into those marketing gimmicks of synthetic performance numbers, I should have done more research and consulted experts.

About the quality of the CAT5’s, testing them with TDR’s or Pentascanners were just way too much beyond my scope of funds. All I did to test each of the 25 cables was to plug one end to my comp and the other end to my router, and bring up a webpage.

And about the quality of NIC’s most people had integrated adaptors in their motherboards or either in their laptops, so not much I could have done there.

Anyway, a lot of you are recommending HP switches, and I’m seriously looking into them instead of the $860 Linksys. Does the ProCurve 2626 suit my needs or should I go for lesser models?
 
I don't know anything about games - is the net traffic mostly
16 clients <-> one server ? (Versus client <-> client traffic.)
If so, there's no way your switch is the problem. No one is
selling switches that can't even saturate one port.
Get 16 players going, and see how the server is doing.
Idle cpu time, disk usage, net traffic, paging, etc.
Don't guess. The computers can tell you what the problem is.
 
Cant go wrong with something Cisco. I have a few Cisco switches and where I work have a few as there backbone. They are the best and they can take a beating!
 
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