Recommendation for non-conductive coolant

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FatboyHK

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
268
After surviving a potential disaster here I will certainly use non-conductive coolant for my new build....

What choice do I have..... I only know about Fluid XP, any other options?

actually can I use oil? those franklinstein-alike people submerge their whole rigs in oil.... I won't do that, but can I use oil in a loop instead?
 
Oil SUCKS at heat conduction, so no.

Most non-conductive coolants become conductive over time. Just dont use an acrylic res, and make sure your fittings are all on tight and you should be OK.
 
Most non-conductive coolants become conductive over time
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I am not aware of this..... so for maximum safety I need to replace coolant periodically? how often I should do that? or I need to use a multimeter to check periodically?
 
FatboyHK said:
I am not aware of this..... so for maximum safety I need to replace coolant periodically? how often I should do that? or I need to use a multimeter to check periodically?
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For maximum safety, you should do a proper leak test, and exercise the same caution that you would with a cheaper, better performing coolant. If you are willing to go to the trouble of changing your fluid regularly and testing it, you can probably run a "normal" coolant safely too. And two years' supply of FluidXP would probably cost you as much as a new motherboard anyways.

If you are really worried about leaks with water, why don't you just seal your motherboard and cards? It would be less hassle than testing and replacing your fluid all the time, and it would give you better temps for less money.
 
I think he is talking about conformal coatings, look in the extreme cooling section for information on how to deal with condensation.
 
FatboyHK said:
I never heard about this, forgive me I am a rookie :) any pointer for me?
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I was talking about using a waterproofing layer like a silicone or lacquer on the motherboard. I don't know what's fashionable to use because I don't do any sub-ambient cooling, but it's fairly common in TEC and phase change systems. You might want to ask in the extreme section if you really want to know what to use. I didn't mean to recommend it though - I was just brainstorming.

edit:
Gyrfalcon said:
I think he is talking about conformal coatings, look in the extreme cooling section for information on how to deal with condensation.
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Yup. But I was just rattling off random ideas. I don't think it's really necessary unless you're extremely paranoid.
 
if I coat my mobo like this, will it overheat badly?

but actually I think this too radical for me, I just want to know about more choice of non-conductive coolant
 
just properly leak test

fyi

pc-ice is garbage


distilled water and 10% pentosin or other antifreeze if mixing metals

distilled water and a few drops of biocide in not mixing metals


and for god sakes don't coat anything with anything = dumb
 
malicious said:
just properly leak test
*snip*
and for god sakes don't coat anything with anything = dumb
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That's putting it bluntly (but correctly). For the record, I really never intended to "recommend" coating anything. It was just keyboard diarrhea. :p
 
After surviving a potential disaster here I will certainly use non-conductive coolant for my new build....

What choice do I have..... I only know about Fluid XP, any other options?

actually can I use oil? those franklinstein-alike people submerge their whole rigs in oil.... I won't do that, but can I use oil in a loop instead?
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I don't know champ. I read your first thread before I saw this one, and when you mentoned using FluidXP I almosted posted "You're learning from one mistake only to make another :( " Your experiance with Tt garbage was shitty, I know, and I'm both amazed and really glade that everything lived, but distilled water wasn't the culprit here, Tt was! I've seen both non-conductive (FluidXP and ICE) get shamlessly bashed on these forums. If you really really have to chose, imo, Pc-Ice seems to have less trouble than FluidXP but I know just for saying that someone is going to quote me and tear me a new one lol

distilled water and 10% pentosin or other antifreeze if mixing metals
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qft, ftw, etc etc. Pentosin+Distilled is what I do.
 
I have two bottles of Fluid XP sitting here right now... should I run it or just keep using my pentosin and distilled water? Better question is how hard is it to clean up the Fluid XP once it has been run in the system?
 
All of these "non-conductive coolants" (stuff like Fluorinert not included) are water-based and are more conductive than pure distiller water. Additionally, once you begin adding contaminants to the coolant, it becomes more and more conductive (running it in your loop does this, spilling it on dusty components does this, etc.). There is little point in purchasing these "specialty coolants".

Hell, stuff like MCT-5/MCT-40 is more conductive than a 90% distilled, 10% ethylene glycol mix. :rolleyes:
 
I see some review saying that these non-conductive coolant should have less conductivity than distilled water, with some experients / testings proving it......and I believe so, isn't it why they are called non-conductive ??

but I totally believe that once put in use they will become conductive pretty soon.

And yes I come across the name Fluorinert recently, seem it is a non-conductive coolant for professional usage..... While I can't find any price yet I doubt it is affordable for me....
 
Well, first off all neithier of them cool as well as water does, period.

Second, both of those fluids have been known to gunk up in some water cooling setups. I've actually seen a pictuer on [H] of what happend to an Apogee once after the fact . . . it was horrible. Gunk was wrapped around the matrix style pins on the inside of the heatsink.

On the otherside of the debate, some people use these fluids fine. "Its been running X amount of months, I've had no problems!" though I have to ask how many of these people have actually done a thorough check on there setup after some months of running this stuff. I think a lot of people just assume everything is dandy because water is moving, and maybe it is. Maybe it really is just fine /shrug.

I've never ran either of these things myself and what I'm saying is re-hash of what I've read on the forums, not just this one.
 
FatboyHK said:
I see some review saying that these non-conductive coolant should have less conductivity than distilled water, with some experients / testings proving it....
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FluidXP has released the results of their own electrical conductivity testing and, big surprise, it's higher than that of distilled water. Additionally, as I mentioned, these coolants are mostly distilled water (which is why their conductivity is so low)... it's the stuff they add which increases the conductivity. Pure water (of which, distilled is pretty close) is an insulator.

The conductivity of very pure water is about 0.055 micro Siemens/cm, distilled & de-ionized water typically come in at <1-10 micro Siemens/cm, older FluidXP data showed 76 micro Siemens/cm, current FluidXP data claims 12 micro Siemens/cm, tap water can range from about 200 to 500 micro Siemens/cm (ballpark, depends on the area and what's in the water... don't quote me on that one), and a 50/50 distilled/antifreeze solution is about 2750 micro Siemens/cm.
 
ghost6303 said:
i just read that quickly and saw something about semen in tap water.....
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No... Siemens, the SI unit of conductance (named after K. W. von Siemens). I'd hope that talk of electrical conductivity would have a place in a thread about "non-conductive" coolants... :rolleyes:
 
yea i know what your talking about now that i re-read it. but it made me do a double take lol
 
Petra said:
All of these "non-conductive coolants" (stuff like Fluorinert not included) are water-based and are more conductive than pure distiller water. Additionally, once you begin adding contaminants to the coolant, it becomes more and more conductive (running it in your loop does this, spilling it on dusty components does this, etc.). There is little point in purchasing these "specialty coolants".

Hell, stuff like MCT-5/MCT-40 is more conductive than a 90% distilled, 10% ethylene glycol mix. :rolleyes:
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Then how do you explain this? http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=363

MCT-5 after being in a loop for 8 months, huge spill, everything still working. I doubt that would happen if someone had 90% distilled 10% ethylene glycol in the loop.....
 
Erasmus354 said:
MCT-5 after being in a loop for 8 months, huge spill, everything still working. I doubt that would happen if someone had 90% distilled 10% ethylene glycol in the loop.....
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You do realize that MCT-5 is, for the most part, a distilled water + ethylene glycol mix (in somewhat high concentration, with other crap), right? It's a lot more conductive than water, but that doesn't necessarily mean that stuff will short every time (there are quite a few variables here).

You can doubt me all you want but the information that I'm working with is based on controlled, high accuracy conductivity testing. ...as for the comment about the 10% mix, well, you can have a little chat with my Mac Mini that was flooded with a 10% G11 mix when my test rig decided to blow a hose and turn my desk into a 1 gallon lake. :p
 
i spilled some fluidXP on my Infinity 975x/g last summer, (pc was on, it didnt perminantly damage anything initialy, computer hardlocked, i restarted dried with hair dryer and rebooted, worked fine) it died by october because i was lazy and didnt remove the motherboard and completely clean it, il get some pics of the capacitors it was under and rotted off the board within a month or two, and all the green residue it left behind, it looks bright green like corroded copper... why? because the motherboard is green and it ate away at the top layers of circuit board.
 
Petra said:
You do realize that MCT-5 is, for the most part, a distilled water + ethylene glycol mix (in somewhat high concentration, with other crap), right? It's a lot more conductive than water, but that doesn't necessarily mean that stuff will short every time (there are quite a few variables here).

You can doubt me all you want but the information that I'm working with is based on controlled, high accuracy conductivity testing. ...as for the comment about the 10% mix, well, you can have a little chat with my Mac Mini that was flooded with a 10% G11 mix when my test rig decided to blow a hose and turn my desk into a 1 gallon lake. :p
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Lake Petra :D
 
I use MCT-5 from Danger Den, it's suppose to be non conductive. Don't know if it is or not, since I haven't spilled any on the motherboard yet! Expensive though, $20.00 for a bottle.
 
Petra, you do realize that distilled water does not remain non-conductive when placed in a water cooling loop. It quickly picks up contaminants from the loop and becomes conductive. Therefore, quoting that distilled water is less conductive than these is utterly pointless, neither will conduct in their original states anyways. These "specialty" fluids are supposed to be able to come in contact with a certain amount of contaminants and still not become conductive.

That being said...I don't use them, and I likely never will. I actually agree with you that distilled water + some pentosin or something similar and good solid leak checking is the way to go. Non-conductive liquids have a nasty habit of leaving all sorts of nasty gunk everywhere in your loop. However, I do think that these coolants, while somewhat pointless, are better at remaining non-conductive than distilled water.
 
Distilled water with a few drops of Lugol's Iodine (Iodine + Potassium Iodide + distilled water). The iodine acts as a germicide. Seems to work pretty good!
 
Only suckers buy the "non-conductive coolant solutions".

In terms of performance, nothing will be pure distilled water. It has the best cooling coefficient barring anything NASA has up its sleeves.

However, due to possible corrosion and algae growth, we're forced to add a few drops of additives such as Petra's Nuke, Swiftech's Hydrax, or even plain old Iodine to one's loop.

Fluid Xp, MCT-40, and PC-Ice not only perform worse, but they will gunk up your loops, your radiators, your tubing, and your blocks when their particles/dyes separate. There's plenty of horror story pictures floating around on these boards and XS boards.

If you're worried about leaks, you should be doing a full blown 24 hour stress test in the first place WITHOUT ANY COMPONENTS INSTALLED/POWERED. To do otherwise is being foolish and stupid.
 
i havent had problems with fluid xp + ext..... and i havent had any gunk buildup with pc-ice but the pc ice turned a weird pinkish color from UV green and looks like shit now.
 
Ranker said:
If you're worried about leaks, you should be doing a full blown 24 hour stress test in the first place WITHOUT ANY COMPONENTS INSTALLED/POWERED. To do otherwise is being foolish and stupid.
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I actually believe it is much better to do your stress test WITH components installed...just take out all power sources. This way when your done with your leak test....plug in the power and go. Also remove all hard drives. In the unfortunate event of a leak, clean it all up, THOROUGHLY dry it all, and start again.

See when you leak test without components installed you run the risk of introducing a leak when you install the components. You will be stressing the tubing and the connections when you install everything. In my mind it basically makes your previous leak test without components null and void.
 
I actually believe it is much better to do your stress test WITH components installed...just take out all power sources. This way when your done with your leak test....plug in the power and go. Also remove all hard drives. In the unfortunate event of a leak, clean it all up, THOROUGHLY dry it all, and start again.
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That's how I do it too. With Careful planning and I've yet to have a leak... *crosses fingers*
 
I have tried a multitude of coolants, (including FC-77, aka Fluorinert), only to find that each one has an effective purpose. Fluorinert is excellent, but heavy and very expensive (I got it for free :cool: )
  1. Distilled Water and additives - good thermal conductivity, but is conductive as it picks up ions through time. Also is corrosive.
  2. MCT-5/40 - Not really meant for PC's
  3. Koolance Fluid - Conductive, but good for Koolance parts (Viscosity)
  4. PC Ice - Old solution = bad, New mixture = better, but unstable colors and becomes conductive fast.
  5. Oil = bad, Tap water = bad, Alcohol = Bad + flammable
  6. Fluid XP+ "Extreme" = Good for low flow systems, resists increase in conductivity, solid performer, but expensive and conducts at higher voltages. Also not as good thermally as distilled h2o
  7. Fluid XP+ "HP" = for high flow systems, but I wouldnt use it...

I use distilled + Hydrx for copper block / copper rad, Koolance for 1/4" lines and Koolance parts, Distilled + G11 for all Aluminum, and Fluid XP+ Extreme for Mixed metal loops and leak sensitive areas.
I do not use PC Ice, MCT40, coolermaster, Corsair, Zalman, or Thermaltake fluids. Alphacool has a new coolant, which may have potential.

I replace distilled loops frequently, Koolance loops about once a year (thermal performance drops), and have yet needed to replace Fluid XP.
If possible, aim to get deionized water.
Also, be wary that *Non Conductive* may mean it is dielectric ONLY at certain voltages!!!
 
I have tried a multitude of coolants, (including FC-77, aka Fluorinert), only to find that each one has an effective purpose. Fluorinert is excellent, but heavy and very expensive (I got it for free )
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how did you goet them??? Envy .....

So seem FluidXP+ HP is the best, but why do you use it?

I think all fluid would conduct if voltage is high enough, hell this is what lightning do with air...., but if we are only dealing with 12v here....
 
Fluid XP is not the best. Nothing is better than Distilled Water in terms of cooling power. PERIOD.

The only reason to include additives or use those specially made solutions is:

1) prevent algae growth
You can solve this by adding either iodine (purchased at any drug store) with a few drops, or adding a few drops of Hydrax or Petra's own PT Nuke.

2) fear of leakage shorting your system
Do a 24 hour leak test on your loop before you power it up. There is NO reason to have leaks develop in the future after this stress test at all unless you're moving components around and introducing torque on your blocks or new bends. I've water cooled over dozens of systems now and I've never had a leak develop after the 24 hour test has confirmed a solid loop.

Provided you test your loop, you'll never have to worry about the conductivity of your cooling solution since it should never leak. In addition, deionized water is acts like an insulator. All liquids, no matter if its Fluid XP or MCT will reach an ionized state over time due to the stripping of ions within the loop. There's nothing you can do about it. So hence, the non conductivity attribute of a liquid is absolutely worthless after a specified amount of time. Even if you somehow believe that deionized water is more conductive than say Fluid XP (in which case I'd have a bridge to sell you), both will eventually reach the same state. You'll have to drain your loop, pay another $25 for the "snake oil" and fill it up again to satisfy your delusion that Fluid XP is less conductive than deionized water.

3) color
Fluid XP and PC-ice have been known to separate resulting in gunked up blocks, tubes, and even your radiators. A few people have flushed over a dozen times and still can't get rid of all of that blue gunk from their rads. They've had to purchase submersible pumps and run boiling water through it for a couple of hours to get rid fo the gunk altogether.

If you like the color, buy reputable dye bombs such as the ones from Alphacool or D-Tek.

4) preventing corrosion
This is the only legitimate reason to purchase the various gimmick solutions being marketed. However, this only applies to those of you running mixed metal loops, specifically Koolance and Inno setups. However, if you're still using those products, you have some serious issues to worry about other than this matter. (Seriously, stop buying over price, under performing crap that's marketed towards the clueless).

If however, you insist on using mixed metals and like using aluminum, then 10% pentosin in your DI water should be enough to severely retard corrosion. It's much more cost effective to buy a 3$ bottle that won't be used entirely to stop corrosion rather than buying a 20-30$ jug of overpriced "coolant".

I know that many of you enjoy fixing up your computer and often believe that "the more expensive it is, the better it has to be!" mentality. While that may prove to be true in some circumstances, its absolutely not true in this case. Deionized water + biocide + some corrosive inhibitor is the best performing and happens to be the cheapest solution available. If you want color, throw in a 5$ dye bomb and you'll still end up saving yourself 15$ or more.
 
yes yes yes I know pure water is the best for performance, and yes yes yes I know all non-conductive coolant become conductive over time, but what I really need is an extra protection.....

You never know what will happen, if you see my thread I included in the OP you know I have just been extremely lukcy to suvive from a leak, from a loop which I tested from more than 24 hours, hell yes it was a Tt loop but ever the best equipment may fail.

So what I need here is a suggestion for the best and affordable non-conductive coolant in the market. I have decided NOT to use water, except if someone confirm with me that there will be serious problem if I use it.
 
OK. Do you understand english? Deionized water is the LEAST conductive fluid you can obtain commercially. Fluid xp, PC-Ice, MCT are all MORE conductive than Deionized water.

And if you built your setup right, it wouldn't leak after a 24 hour stress test. Use worm drive clamps, test your blocks w/ a submersible pump outside of the loop and then inside, make sure all tubing is tight. I'm sorry but if you buy trash like Koolance, Inno, TT, or Corsair, expect trash results and experiences.
 
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