Recommend some good speakers for music

wow, there's allot of info in here + allot of opinions :)

Blackbeard Ben said:
Once the O.P. tries the AE2s he bought, he'll have a good benchmark to compare, and if he wants to upgrade he should have a relatively easy job of knowing what he wants.
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I had some time to play with them today, and I am pretty impressed. They actually sound better than I thought they would, I was impressed with them within seconds. The clarity is superb, as is the stereo imaging. I played the start of Foo fighters 'Best off you' (The skin and bones alum is record from a live concert) 10x times, I could pick out individuals all over the place (something I have never experienced before.

I played some Portal 2 and they really did aid in the immense atmosphere of the game and some black ops Nuketown where you could picks individual gunfire rather than an orgy of bullets. I haven’t upgraded my soundcard yet as the realtek HD on this one (MSI GD65) is actually pretty good (very low noise) and a different beast to the one on my old Asus P5k, which I hated. I’m sure the included speaker cable is a bigger problem right now.

There is an issue with the bass, don't get my wrong they're very powerful for their size. It is just missing in some songs (even on the same album). For example, Massive attack’s Collected. In 'safe from harm' the bass sounds excellent, but then with 'Angel', there's nothing there (which is a shame since I love the baseline in that song). I think this more down to the 65hz cutoff, rather than the volume of air the cones can move (which is more than you would expect). Another thing is that they (as others suggested) struggle to fill this room (4.2m long x3.5m wide), but they do create a very nice sweet spot with a couple of metres. I think I may need to try the A5's side by side (my two 24” monitors make the A2’s look cute, so size isn’t as big a concern as I thought). Am I going to notice any big changes in the coming days?

I’m not sure how far I am going to get with speakers before I run out of money or alienate my neighbours. I think I need to look at a decent headphone setup (the Denon AH-D2000's have caught my eye).
 
Wiseguy2001 said:
wow, there's allot of info in here + allot of opinions :)
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Yea, you will find that in any audio section of a forum. Sound like taste is subjective and though accuracy is one thing, preference is another.

I remember listening to music one after another when I got my speakers. I am glad you like the AE A2's and so long as you like em, that is all that matters. Have fun with your setup.
 
Whatever set of speakers you end up with, you should buy a set of these:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Auralex-MoPad-Monitor-Isolation-Pads-101676609-i1134516.gc
They make a very nice and audible difference. They helped eliminate any sound transmission from the speakers to the desk and in doing so made the bass that much tighter :)

As for speakers... If you have a guitar center nearby go there with all the types of music that you listen to. Find something that fits your tastes. Considering That you miss massive attack's bass... If you don't plan to buy a sub I'd venture to recommend a studio monitor with a 8" woofer if size isn't a big issue.

There are a few in your price range to check out:

KRK RP8G2 $249.99 per speaker $499/pr:
15"H x 10.5"W x 12"D

Mackie MR8mk2 $249.99 per speaker $499/pr:
15.7”H x 10.8”W x 13.0”D

Yamaha HS80M $279.99 per speaker (Factory restock) $559/pr ($349/ea brand new, $699/pr):
15-1/3"H x 10"W x 8-3/4"D

I'm in the same shoes you're in currently. Been looking to upgrade my Blue Sky eXo's to something a bit more substantial. The above three are all great monitors, but again your ears ARE different then mine, so try them out and see what you like.
 
Your playing the A2s just off the soundcard? No wonder they are struggling to fill the room.
 
Better off with headphones if you are concerned with your neighbors. The Denons will do just fine and give you plenty of bass. As. much as most subwoofers will in terms of frequencyYou will want to upgrade your source though b/c the onboard will probably sound noisy with the headphones.

The A5s will sound fuller but you will still want a subwoofer it sounds like.

I would get the nuforce udac-2 for the simple solution. It + the D2000 will = great sound. Speakers give you more but at a price both in terms of cost, space and if you have neighbors....

Headphones, slap them on and ROCK.

Your choice. Check Head-Fi out. There is a pretty strong euro community there to help you out.
 
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Spooony said:
There are however discernable differences in parts usage such as the Burr Brown DAC's. One would think that the higher numbered DAC (PCM-1796) would be superior to the lower number unit (PCM-1792), but this is NOT thecase. Aside from the 30% component cost adder of the Burr Brown PCM-1792s found on the DVD-5910CI and the PCM-1796s found on the DVD-3930 there are significantspecification difference between these two DAC's. The PCM-1792s have superior dynamic range (about 3dB better), better channel to channel separation (about 4dB) and better filter characteristics, particularly with respect to superior Stop Band Attenuation(-130dB on the 1792s vs -98dB on the 1796s) as well passband ripple. The 1792s also appear to have greater drive capabilities than those of the 1796s which isn't surprising since the 1792s are the Burr Browns flagship DAC's and arguably some ofthe highest performance multi function audio DAC's ever created. Whether or not a consumer could hear a sonic difference between these units depends upon many factors such as: hardware implementation, quality of upstream components and loudspeakers, room acoustics, listeners hearing capabilities.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/dvd-players/denon-dvd-5910ci/technology-overview

The STX you pay for what? $200 for the $39?

DACs, like op amps, are only as good as the supporting circuitry. To the end user it doesn't really matter which dac is used, so long as the unit as a whole is properly designed. In other words a good chip that is poorly implemented will sound worse than a poor chip properly implemented. I would buy based on overall performance rather than what chips they use.
You are significantly more likely to hear a difference in the program algorithms and fx processing than you are dac performance.

The ONLY time you wil hear A difference between the DAC of the Xonar DG $30 AND the XONAR STX $200 IS if you crank up the volume to STADIUM LEVELS!!!!!
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I don't get where you're getting the idea that I'm arguing against all that. I know that and I agree with much of it. You seem to just want to spew as much information as possible no matter its relevance. Whether the difference in competent DACs (and I mean the entire package from input to line level output, in case you can't seem to fathom that) is audible or not is one thing - really, the only relevant thing for listening.

That doesn't mean that better DACs aren't better. In technical measurements, that's undeniable. Better DACs are in fact better. But does it make an audible difference? That's another question.

As for the DG... Well, I'm sure it's a fine performer. Unfortunately, it has a big weakness - no shielding... It may not be an issue for some builds, but for others it definitely is. Anyway, there's other competing products - like the Behringer UCA202 - that solve that sometimes-problem.

Spooony said:
Speaker power ratings have nothing to do with how much power they will consume. A less efficient speaker will consume more power than a more efficient design to achieve similar sound levels. A speaker rated at 4 ohms will draw twice the current as a similar one rated at 8 ohms. Impedance and sensitivity are the critical metrics in determining how power hungry a particular speaker will be.

Continuous Power / Channel from 20Hz to 20KHz into 8/4 ohm loads for at least two channels driven. SNR figures at full power and one watt. Yes that's the power game but that don't say anything how it will sound. Although a particular loudspeaker may be rated for 4 ohms (nom), it may actually provide a more stable load for an amp to drive than another speaker rated at 8 ohms.This has to do with the inductive reactance nature of loudspeaker systems. A speakers impedance varies as a function of frequency.An improperly designed loudspeaker may have nasty impedance dips at certain frequencies.

Speakers ROOM ACOUSTICS!!!!! That's the most important thing.
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Again, I already know all that and I don't know why you seem to think I disagree with that... I happen to leave out all the details when they're not necessary, like now. Is this some sort of "I know more about this stuff than you" competition or something?

For the record, I have plenty of experience with funky speaker loads - my favorite speakers are vintage Infinitys, with all their horrible impedance dips and absolute intolerance of clipping.

Spooony said:
yes they do have shit bass. Do you know what bass is? Not everyone listens to headphones and your music. Do you know how bass is created? what makes bass better? There's not much of anything when music is poured straight into your eardrum. Unless you have a ported enclosure in your headset that you managed to develop.
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Do YOU know what bass is? You're trying to pigeon-hole me with irrelevant side-arguments with this "my headphones and my music" thing. You know, I do have experience with both high end headphones and speakers - not to mention, my music tastes stretch from Bach to the Beatles, the Beastie Boys, and more or less some of most broad genres. Just FYI, I own a pair of Infinity Renaissance 90's and Kappa 8's, albeit in storage as I'm currently overseas. Look them up if you're not familiar with them. As far as headphones go I own Sennheiser HD 600's and have auditioned most of the top German/Austrian headphones currently in production.

Speakers are often more fun, but unequivocally, headphones are more accurate to the source in all but the best-tuned rooms. Do you have a custom-built listening room with carefully modeled acoustics? Didn't think so. I don't either.

I'm talking about low distortion at bass frequencies, so you can actually tell notes apart. I'm talking about even in-room response, so you don't have a 10 dB peak at one frequency and then 5 Hz higher a 20 dB null in your listening spot. I'm talking about even response throughout the room, so you don't have that 10 dB peak/20 dB null reversed when you move your head 4" to the right... That's not good bass. Loud and body shaking? Sure. Accurate to the signal? Ha! Accuracy is what high fidelity is.

Now, that's not to say that whole-body shaking isn't important - it certainly is. It's the tradeoff for accuracy at a given price point that headphones make versus a speaker system. Enough money and you can have both. But bass is by far the hardest thing to get right in a speaker system, and in headphones it's quite elementary in comparison. Compare headphone frequency responses and low frequency distortion to similarly-priced in-room speaker measurements... Headphones have a much easier job as they've only got to push a small volume of air, and our ears are so small relative to bass frequency wavelengths as to not create the same frequency and phase response problems as speakers do in a room.
 
Wiseguy2001 said:
Thanks guys,

I was thinking about going with a head end headphone setup, but there's a certain freedom about not wearing headphones + some decent speakers is the one thing that is missing from my pc/ office (aside from the sexy PA).

I've now crossed off the SP2500's and I am very interested in the Audio Engine A5's, they seem to offer allot for the money. I'm also temped by the A5's little bro, the A2's as I am wondering if the bigger speakers are overkill since they won't be pushed at higher volumes. Also with the A2's, I can also add some decent headphones so I get the best of both worlds.

I think I really need to experience some of these speakers in person.
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if you enjoy listening at all times of the day then I would suggest you invest in some nice headphones.
 
I am going to keep the A2's (I can use them elsewhere and take them on holidays with me). But I do want to try the A5's. I think the problem is that the A2's boost the bass a little bit to make up for their size and the 65hz cut off (the inner audiophile in me is picking that up:)). There is no doubt that the A2's do sound good though.

Just wondering how much an issue it is that they only go down to 65hz? I've noticed some studio monitors only go down to 85hz, just wondering how big an issue is for this or do I need a sub..

Just looking at some of the setup in the speaker pictures thread is making me feel inadequate. :(

pwrusr said:
Whatever set of speakers you end up with, you should buy a set of these:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Auralex-MoPad-Monitor-Isolation-Pads-101676609-i1134516.gc
They make a very nice and audible difference. They helped eliminate any sound transmission from the speakers to the desk and in doing so made the bass that much tighter :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I made some up from some inch thick polystyrene sheets from a BBQ i recently ordered and the cloth bags the the accessories of the A2's came with, does make an improvement and free!)
pwrusr said:
As for speakers... If you have a guitar center nearby go there with all the types of music that you listen to. Find something that fits your tastes. Considering That you miss massive attack's bass... If you don't plan to buy a sub I'd venture to recommend a studio monitor with a 8" woofer if size isn't a big issue.
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Thanks, I've been looking for hight end audio shops (for those who spend more on speakers than the tv's). Never thought to try musicians shops, I think I know one such shop that is local. It will be good to hear some speakers first hand instead of reading reviews and ordering online.

spaceman said:
Better off with headphones if you are concerned with your neighbors. The Denons will do just fine and give you plenty of bass. As. much as most subwoofers will in terms of frequencyYou will want to upgrade your source though b/c the onboard will probably sound noisy with the headphones.

The A5s will sound fuller but you will still want a subwoofer it sounds like.

I would get the nuforce udac-2 for the simple solution. It + the D2000 will = great sound. Speakers give you more but at a price both in terms of cost, space and if you have neighbors....

Headphones, slap them on and ROCK.

Your choice. Check Head-Fi out. There is a pretty strong euro community there to help you out.
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I am starting to think this will be my best option for 'really' listening to music, instead of background music while I work (although I am surprised how loud I can have them without being heard in the rest of the house/ downstairs).

Will I have any problems with that DAC though? It doesn't have a power connector and USB can only supply .5 watts.

Spooony said:
Your playing the A2s just off the soundcard? No wonder they are struggling to fill the room.
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Just wondering what improvements I'd notice from the built-in one, which has pretty good clarity and low noise (much better than some built in cards I have experienced).
 
http://www.everythingusb.com/nuforce-udac-2-21163.html

It will run most headphones easy. I would not try it with some Beyer 880 600 ohm or Sennheiser 650s but otherwise....Anyway, if you ever need more juice, add an amp and use the udac as a dac. It works with your A2speakers or any other speaker setup you might end up with. It is a nice starter piece in the audio chain gang.
 
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