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recomend me a powered subwoofer

T

the snake

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 14, 2001
Messages
1,211
i am running a pair of JBL LSR305's getting signal from a HT omega claro soundcard, but i want deeper base extension so am looking at a subwoofer to enhance the overall sound.

i listen to flac files and do some gaming like BF4, but mostly music is what i am after, i really like the 305's and the HT omega card is better sounding than the onboard realtech 1050 of my X79 deluxe mobo.

LSR305 Products | JBL Professional

of course i am looking hard at the JBL LSR310S sub as it is designed to work well as a system, but want to make sure there isn't a better choice for the money.

LSR310S Products | JBL Professional

if i get something else, it needs to have a way to send signal out to the monitors and have an adjustable crossover.

was looking at something like these Dayton audio 1000, but am not sure if it has a crossover and feeds the monitors ?

"Dayton Audio SUB-1000 10" 100 Watt Powered Subwoofer" from www.parts-express.com!


or maybe something like this BIC sub

"BIC Formula F-12 12" 475 Watt Subwoofer" from www.parts-express.com!
 
I'd stick with the JBL subs. JBL tends to make good products and getting a sub matched to your speakers usually is a good idea. Given what they are asking for it, seems reasonable. I always recommend SVS subwoofers as I used them and am a big fan, but you are talking more money. Their smallest sub is about $500. They do also have integrated crossovers though, and they are adjustable. Be aware though that their sealed box subs are a pretty normal size but their ported box subs are MASSIVE. Make sure to look at the pictures of the subs next to a couch for a reference of scale before buying.
 
Depends on your budget. If you are mainly after music you probably want a fast subwoofer that can integrate with your speakers well. Generally this means getting a sealed subwoofer (ideally a servo-controlled one), but there are a few ported subs that are fast.

Ikka at hometheatershack showed that Hsu subs are among the fastest (lowest cycle delay) of any of the ported subs he's ever measured. If you can't swing for a fancy servo controlled Rythmik subwoofer, and are on a tight budget, see if you can at least swing for the Hsu STF-1. Retails for $359, but if you don't mind buying used you can usually find these for about $200 on ebay or Audiogon.

STF-1 Subwoofer

Obviously if your budget is much higher you can look at a sealed servo subwoofer like the Rythmik L12 at $569. The advantage in addition to even lower cycle delay is the greater extension (L12's -3db point is 18hz, the STF-1 IIRC is around 29Hz):

Rythmik L12 - sealed HT sub
 
I was in the same boat with my M-Audio BX5's, so I opted for the M-Audio BX Subwoofer. I don't know how much bass you want but both this and the JBL should be in the same range of power and mine is really powerful.
I have the volume turned up just slightly from all the way down.

the M-Audio also has a foot pedal bypass switch so you can just press the pedal and it bypasses the sub and sends full range to the monitors, press the pedal again and the sub is active again.
M-Audio - BX Subwoofer
 
I wouldn't worry about blending a sub to the 305s - they go deep enough to match just about anything.

But, the JBL sub looks like a great choice for powered monitors. Its line-level connections are balanced. Good luck finding that in another decent, cheap sub.
 
You really can't go wrong with the LSR310, especially since you've got the 305s.

I'm another huge SVS fan and use the SB-2000 with my PC. It's quite a bit more expensive, however.
 
As an owner of 305s and a 310, go with that. Balanced connections are key if you're running the 305s with any kind of balanced DAC, and the standard crossover plays super nice with the 305s - you can modify it as well, but after doing all my room measurements (in a semi-treated room), I have a clean signal down to 22hZ, and run it at 10 out of 20 setting - if you want to get wild you have plenty of room to turn it up. Built like a tank, too.
 
thanks everyone for the advice, i ordered the JBL 310 from a local sam ash music center, they should have it thursday as the warehouse is very close to me.

got $30 off the sub and a deep discount on the XLR cables i needed, so basicly free cables.

so for $420 and change a total setup.

can't wait :)

windianrecords, got a link to mods of the sub ?
 
the snake said:
thanks everyone for the advice, i ordered the JBL 310 from a local sam ash music center, they should have it thursday as the warehouse is very close to me.

got $30 off the sub and a deep discount on the XLR cables i needed, so basicly free cables.

so for $420 and change a total setup.

can't wait :)

windianrecords, got a link to mods of the sub ?
Click to expand...

Hey, sorry, I meant modify the crossover via built in options - i havent looked at mine in a while but just climbed behind my mixing desk - I keep it at 80hz but the XBass option crosses over at 120 at a different slope for "maximum bass", and then theres a pass/external crossover option which feeds full signal - when I got it I ran 4 balanced outs from my saffire pro 40, 2 direct to the monitors and 2 to the sub and set the slope to 80hZ...

Did an ARC 2 measurement and the speakers seemed to be a bit anemic, but when I ran 2 channels to the sub then 2 out from sub to speakers I got much more linear measurements.

Since the studios Ive mixed in already had their subs professionally calibrated ive never learned much about sub frequency crossover, but I assume my Q was off - with this one at least your options are practically endless.
 
I added a 310 to my 305s. It took a lot of work to get set up right, to the point that I almost unplugged it and sent it back.

The 305s already get down to 43hz. The 310 added a ton of room mode issues, and only really got me down about another 10hz.

While I was tuning everything I'd get headaches just listening to music.

I ended up needing to build bass traps and acoustic panels to get everything to settle back down. It sounds great now, but it took a *lot* of time and work to get it right.
 
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That's one of the advantages of running passive speakers with a receiver and a powered (rca/unbalanced) subwoofer, you can run room correction and smooth out the response of the subwoofer.
 
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pippenainteasy said:
That's one of the advantages of running passive speakers with a receiver and a powered (rca/unbalanced) subwoofer, you can run room correction and smooth out the response of the subwoofer.
Click to expand...
With active speakers you can run much more effective room corrections. Passive is always just a bad compromise.
 
B00nie said:
With active speakers you can run much more effective room corrections. Passive is always just a bad compromise.
Click to expand...

Im assuming you arent referring to active as in merely integrated amps since theres nothing particularly special about that, but rather active EQ. Perhaps, but active EQ systems compared to passive lines are still hilariously expensive. DeqX is still several thousand dollars for active EQ. Ive owned both the passive Selah version of the NHT Xd and the active version with DeqX and its a subtle difference but it does exist. However Im not sure a $2,000 DeqX EQ was that much better than a $300 custom physical crossover.

Another commercial example is the Dynadio active XD system. They use Focus line drivers but because of active EQ and built in amps it costs as much as the Confidence series, but even with electronic EQ dont make up the difference in performance between (Esotec) Focus and (Esotar) Confidence driver units.

If you are saying active speakers come with way better room correction than say Auddessy Multi XT, well I guess thats probably true simply because you are only correcting one brand of speakers. But thats not really an argument for active room correction > passive, but rather proprietary in-brand vs commercial room correction.
 
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An active implementation is, in theory at least, always superior to a passive one. Low level crossovers skip all the inherent problems related to passive crossovers and you can create crossover networks that simply aren't possible in passive. This means that an active speaker responds much better to room correction than a passive one even if it doesn't have DSP built in like many spekaers today do.

Just posting this because your post gave the impression that there would be something beneficial in having passive main speakers with a powered sub - just wanted to point out that an all active system is technologically superior.
 
B00nie said:
An active implementation is, in theory at least, always superior to a passive one. Low level crossovers skip all the inherent problems related to passive crossovers and you can create crossover networks that simply aren't possible in passive. This means that an active speaker responds much better to room correction than a passive one even if it doesn't have DSP built in like many spekaers today do.

Just posting this because your post gave the impression that there would be something beneficial in having passive main speakers with a powered sub - just wanted to point out that an all active system is technologically superior.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure you are in the position to say my post "gave an impression" when your post "With active speakers you can run much more effective room corrections. Passive is always just a bad compromise" is the definition of vague.
 
pippenainteasy said:
I'm not really sure you are in the position to say my post "gave an impression" when your post "With active speakers you can run much more effective room corrections. Passive is always just a bad compromise" is the definition of vague.
Click to expand...
There's nothing vague about that statement lol.
 
Then why did you add qualifiers to it with the next post? Thats like Donald Trump claiming he's not John Miller after admitting hes John Miller. Thats some impressive mental gymnastics there.
 
Zepher said:
I was in the same boat with my M-Audio BX5's, so I opted for the M-Audio BX Subwoofer. I don't know how much bass you want but both this and the JBL should be in the same range of power and mine is really powerful.
I have the volume turned up just slightly from all the way down.

the M-Audio also has a foot pedal bypass switch so you can just press the pedal and it bypasses the sub and sends full range to the monitors, press the pedal again and the sub is active again.
M-Audio - BX Subwoofer
Click to expand...


I also have the M-Audio BX Sub, along with a pair of their M3-6 monitors. I could hardly wish for anything better. It can level the house as it is.

For the living room/entertainment system I've been a Velodyne fan for a very long time. I have an SPL-10 I bought in 2004 that is as good as the day it was new. It is powered up at least 10 hours a day.

But that's a 1500-2000 watt sub. Not quite what the OP is looking for :)

I think the M-Audio BX12 is worth every penny.
 
windianrecords said:
Hey, sorry, I meant modify the crossover via built in options - i havent looked at mine in a while but just climbed behind my mixing desk - I keep it at 80hz but the XBass option crosses over at 120 at a different slope for "maximum bass", and then theres a pass/external crossover option which feeds full signal - when I got it I ran 4 balanced outs from my saffire pro 40, 2 direct to the monitors and 2 to the sub and set the slope to 80hZ...

Did an ARC 2 measurement and the speakers seemed to be a bit anemic, but when I ran 2 channels to the sub then 2 out from sub to speakers I got much more linear measurements.

Since the studios Ive mixed in already had their subs professionally calibrated ive never learned much about sub frequency crossover, but I assume my Q was off - with this one at least your options are practically endless.
Click to expand...


80 hz is the optimal crossover for a sub. Anything higher than that causes 2 issues:

1. You start to lose directionality. Yes, BASS above a certain freq is directional despite what some think. This, of course, assumes your mains are up to the task. A good example of this is:



2. Crossing over at 120-125hz, which is seemingly what your typical PC peripheral company likes to use because it gives games boom, is HORRIFIC for music. This is the main reason why the Logitech Z5500's were such a steaming pile of shit for music reproduction. Worst set of $400 speakers I ever owned.
 
pippenainteasy said:
Then why did you add qualifiers to it with the next post? Thats like Donald Trump claiming he's not John Miller after admitting hes John Miller. Thats some impressive mental gymnastics there.
Click to expand...
It's called twisting it out of iron wire for you as you clearly seemed to have no idea about the subject. And since this discussion is quickly degrading to ad hominem ad nauseam I'd say it has run it's path.
 
That's truly impressive. Speak in vagaries and declare the other side knows nothing about the subject. Also be the one to have resorted to ad hominems and then declare its the other one doing it. I salute you.
 
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pippenainteasy said:
That's truly impressive. Speak in vagaries and declare the other side knows nothing about the subject. Also be the one to have resorted to ad hominems and then declare its the other one doing it. I salute you.
Click to expand...
I don't know what exactly your problem is but I simply corrected your mistake and you started accusing my posts being vague and Donald Trump like lol. There was nothing 'vagary' in my posts.
 
here is a short video of my room, the corner opposite of where the sub is now has the strongest base response, so maybe i need a bass trap in the corners ?

room is 9 feet x 9 feet with 8 foot tall ceilings'

can i put the sub under the desk to the right of sitting position ?

should i purchase a sound level meter to help tune the room, but i cant find a cheap one that goes below say 200Hz or so

 
So, this is your main issue:
the snake said:
room is 9 feet x 9 feet with 8 foot tall ceilings'
Click to expand...
Because the room's nearly a cube, its modes all stack on top of each other. It's also pretty small, so you'll have a hard time adding enough bass traps. On the bright side, the small dimensions imply that you simply pressurize the room below 62Hz or so (ignoring leakage to the rest of the house). IOW, you should have plenty of output down low!

I'll guess that sub placement won't make a big difference in such a small room. Sure, for the mains up to 500ish Hz, but below 80Hz?

The best thing to do is to experiment & report your results. A sub crawl with the 310 in your chair would be a good starting point.
 
the snake said:
here is a short video of my room, the corner opposite of where the sub is now has the strongest base response, so maybe i need a bass trap in the corners ?

room is 9 feet x 9 feet with 8 foot tall ceilings'

can i put the sub under the desk to the right of sitting position ?

should i purchase a sound level meter to help tune the room, but i cant find a cheap one that goes below say 200Hz or so
Click to expand...

Bass traps are very demanding to build. You would need to measure the exact frequencies you need addressing and then build a mass resonator to damp it. The instructions you see on the internet where people build frames with 4" of fiber glass are not bass traps. They are effective in mid and high frequencies which make your bass problem even more pronounced.

Download Room Eq Wizard (free tool) and use it to simulate your rooms bass response with different speaker locations. Usually adding a second or even a third subwoofer can work wonders in flattening your response. Play with locations, levels and delays until you find a combination where you have extension but a flat response.

In a small room it's usually more beneficial to have two or more small subwoofers instead of one large one. If you can't go the way of multiple subs you can use the tool to find the optimal spot and then see the predicted problem spots using those locations. You can then use that information to build a tuned mass damper.
 
Get a 32" with 20,000 watts and shake your neighbor's skulls while they sleep.
 
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