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Really need help with weird problem.

Mitchel

n00b
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
5
Hi all, this is my first post at hardforum, so be gentle :)

The problem: weird jerkiness/skipping while moving/looking around, and the screen looking like it has a very low refresh rate in, when it doesn't. This happens the worst when played with crossfire, and still happens, when played with C/F disabled.

This problem is the worst when i play farcry 2 (single player) and happens to a lesser degree in other games like left 4 dead 2.

Now the weird thing about this problem is that it has only just started to occur recently. All my games, including farcry 2 used to played silky smooth, with zero jerkiness / skipping. I played farcry 2 for 6 months with no problems at all, on 1400x1050, 8x AA, dx9, v-sync off, details all maxed out, cat's 9.11, and i used to get a constant 130FPS when played on crossfire, and it was great, loved every minute. But now the only way i can play farcry 2 is with the settings set to 800x600, details set to low on everything, dx9, v-sync off, with C/F disabled. But even at these really low settings, the game still plays as if it has a 20Hrz refresh, when in actual fact the refresh rate is at 60Hrz, and there is still a little bit of skipping.

I am really struggling to work out why the game has suddenly started doing this.
Obviously the first thing i thought was that something must have changed with the system, in order to effect farcry 2 in this way. The only thing that has happed recently that might have effected farcry 2, was the fact that i updated Direct X 9.0c (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en)

My usual approach to updating is that i try to avoid doing so. If all my games are playing well, i generally will not update my catalyst drivers or direct x. I have found that this approach has always worked for me, if it ain't broke, don't update it
So why did i update direct x then you ask ? I updated it in an effort to try and fix stuttering issues in another game (left 4 dead 2) It didn't work, but after the update is when farcry 2 started exhibiting jerkiness. The question is, can a direct x update really brake a game ? So then i rolled back the dx9 update with system restore, but it had no effect, seems as if farcry 2 has been permanently borken... and no combination of in-game setting makes any difference.

Farcry 2 is a really fun game. I would really appreciate any input on helping to fix / determine why it's has become unplayable.

P.S. -
* Farcry 2 Version = 1.03

* The jerkiness in left 4 dead 2 (that i was trying to fix with the dx9 update), is also a recent development, i played L4D2 for about 3-4 months prior with no problems at all. - The jerkiness in L4D2 only started to happed after i installed crysis & crysis warhead about 2 and a half weeks ago.

* The reason i never played farcry 2 in DX10 was because farcry 2 has a DX10 memory leak (Officially confirmed) that doesn't effect everyone, but it did effect me, so i switched to using dx9 when i first installed the game.

Thank you.
 
Here's a couple things you could try:

Check your temps, this includes CPU and GPU. Move your games to another HDD/SSD('s) and see what happens. If that changes nothing I'd hop on and re-install windows next with the newest updated drivers (Use 10.4WHQL's) etc.

Next we'd probably start to probably look at your hardware.
 
Yeah, reinstall Windows

Between the Windows reinstall and reinstalling all your apps/games you'll probably save time than trying to sort this out.
 
I would say that the DX update isn't causing your problem. I can't be certain that DX isn' the issue but I have never had a DX update break a game or cause severe performance issues like this. This sounds driver related to me, however I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say when playing the game it feels like its running at 20hz refresh rate. Can you elaborate on that?

I'd get Driver Cleaner, clean off the current drivers in Safe-mode an then install the latest drivers and see if that resolves the issue. That shouldn't take too long and could save you a reformat, however it that doesn't solve the issue then I am with everyone else on the reformat.
 
As far as heat issues go, i have fan profiles for most of my games, farcry 2 fan profile is 80%(Master) / 70%(Slave) for C/F and 90% for single card use. The max temps i've seen are 55c/59c, but i don't know if that is too hot or just normal. (BTW, the max temps i refer to are from when i used to play FC2 max out, on the horrible new low settings, it only gets up to about 45c/46c
The CPU temps seem to hit a high of 60c/65c currently on the low settings, and as far as i can remember they used to get up to about 68c/71c when i used play FC2 maxed out, but that was usually only if it was a hot day.

Also 2 days ago i opened up the case and inspected everything inside. Couldn't find anything out of the ordinary. I also removed all the fan fillters and gave them a good clean, and also there is tidy cable management inside, so airflow is not being impeded.

The 20Hrz thing, i'm not sure how to describe it, it kind of looks like when you seen computer monitors on the television, where you can see the monitors refresh happening with the naked eye. Only in this case the picture is not flickering or anything, i just basically like i can actually see the frame's changing with the naked eye, if that makes any sense :) sorry i don't know how else to describe it. Howver i've since got rig of the 20Hrz effect with a few tweaks.

Opting for a safe mode un-install of the drivers, is for me personally more preferable than re-installing windows. Mainly because i've never done a win re-install before.

With safe mode, which safe mode do i use when i do the driver un-install ? eg do i use "safe mode" or "safe mode with command prompt" ?
 
Just standard safe mode, however I would recommend getting a driver removal application first. Sometimes the driver's uninstall utility doesn't remove everything that is installed and thus cause conflicts resulting in poor performance.

What application are you using to determine your fps? Download Fraps if you haven't and check it.

The "20Hz" issue honestly sounds like tearing that occurs when running a game where the fps is over the refresh rate (v-sync off) However that doesn't make sense if your games are running at fps under your 60hz refresh rate. The best way I can describe it is when your fps is over the monitors refresh rate, the monitor has to "catch up" and thus results it what appears to be a invisible line moving down the middle of the screen.

Here is a good exampled of the effect:

GGDSG_19.jpg


Like I said, it doesn't really make sense that that is what you would be experiencing but thats what it sounds like to me.

I personally never run a game with v-sync off for this very reason.
 
Ok bought a copy of driver cleaner, and just finished reading the help file that comes with it. It seems like a pretty comprehensive utility, thx for the recommendation masterosok.

I'm establishing my fps count with the "showfps 1" console command in FC2.
It reads pretty much the same as fraps, without the drag of fraps resource usage.

Unfortunately i can't see what the example pic is in your post as it fails to load for me.
But from how you descried it, i think it's tearing that i'm seeing, as it happens when v-sync is off and the fps goes up to 130fps.
v-sync off was how it was for the whole time i played when it was smooth, never used to get the tearing. I knew of the term tearing, but as i had never actually seen it, in any of my games, i was unfamiliar with what it looked like.

I've established that at 1400x1050, 8x AA, dx9, v-sync off, details all maxed out, C/F on, that this is when the jerkiness goes away and is replaced with tiny little millisecond skips when i move and strafe, and there is tearing.

At 1400x1050, 8x AA, dx9, v-sync on, details all maxed out, C/F on, tearing pretty much goes anyway, but the horrible large jerkiness starts.

Anyway it's a mute point i guess, as a driver update is the only way to be sure.
I'm still going to try a few other things first, try diff monitor, try diff mice, try diff usb/ps2 ports, try play FC2 in windows safe mode, maybe re-install FC2, update mouse driver etc etc, might all be a big waste of time, but at least i will know it's none of those things that is the problem, as i'm really not relishing the prospect the catalyst driver update, i just know i'm going to forget something, or messing something up, and then end up with a broken system, instead of just a broken game :)

PS - while i was doing all the testing in FC2, i was playing some new sections of the game, and i noticed the single most hilarious game glitch i have ever seen. Basically for no reason, the game will, what i can only describe as "levitate" an idle enemy AI up off the ground about 5 meters, then if the AI moves in any direction, he drops to the ground and is killed by the fall.... lol.
Here's a clip: Levitation example
This is what i'm seeing in game, with one difference. Whilst the guy who post this clip could only make the AI levitate by pushing the barrel up to him, the levitation i'm seeing is just random, and it will slowly happen to every idle AI, one by one, in any cease fire zone i walk into.
 
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The millisecond skips you are experiencing might be what is called micorstuttering that happens with C/F and SLI setups. Do you get the same skips with C/F off? Do a google search on "microstuttering" and see if you can determine if that is what the issue is. I personally have never ran a multi-GPU system so I have never experienced it hands on. I can't really provide too much detail regarding the issue but I did research it once when I was considering C/F. I want to say that the issue pretty was much eliminated by both Nvidia and ATI with some driver fixes but I never kept up on it.
 
Sry for delay.
I updated catalyst drivers to 10.6 with latest crossfire profile's.
Updated mouse drivers
Updated Direct-X

games are still jerky or skipping in crossfire, with farcry 2 still being the worst, and i still get it even on single card. This is just terrible. Basically got two grands worth of gaming rig, that i can no longer game on... :( :(

I don't know what to do now.
 
Yeah, something is definitely not working right. It almost sounds like micro stutter.

Are you sure your second video card is in an 8x or 16x port? (PCI-E 1.0 or 2.0, doesn't matter)
If it is in a 4x port, it may be having some bottleneck. Though you did say this happens with CF disabled too, hmm.

You said your resolution was 1400x1050, did you mean 1440x900 or 1680x1050?

Make sure VSync is on with triple buffering enabled.

I used to experience what you are seeing in Portal, but enabling VSync and triple buffering fixed the problem, though my fps decreased a little bit.

Your temps seem to be normal, and your GPUs are VERY cold, considering air and two GPUs running, so I don't think overheating is causing any issues.

Are any other processes running in the background that could be eating any extra CPU cycles?
 
Hi red faction,
yea both cards are in pci-e X16 slots with the link width being read as at X16 on both cards by gpu-z and by amd gpu clock tool.

The highest resolution i play any game on is 1400x1050, because my monitors max rez is 1600x1200. I avoid 1600x1200 cause i don't want to push the monitor too hard, and 1400x1050 is crisp enough for me anyway.

VSync is on and triple buffering is enabled in catalyst control center.

I don't have many processes running when i game. Usually just the the windows stuff, sound & video stuff.

I realised something, although the rig is only 6 months old and i replaced the mouse and keyboard, the one big thing i've overlooked here is the monitor.

The monitor is a 17" CRT iiyama (Model:HM703UT A) and it must be about 4 years old now. Could the monitor be the culprit ? - could explain why there is no jerkiness on a static image, but lots when i strafe and move at the same time.

Could someone recommend me a good monitor to replace my current one.
Preferably a CRT one, but if not, then a good LCD one. Also needs to have a high refresh rate.
My graphics card only has the following connection ports:
1 x Display Port
2 x Dual Link DVI-I
1 x HDMI
So it will have to be something that can connect via one of thoes ports.

Thanks.
 
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Yeah, you should run the monitor at 1600x1200, I'm betting that's the problem since 1440x1050 isn't its native resolution. Just fyi, you can never "push a monitor too hard" ;)

Also, CRTs monitors and old-school TVs are notorious for this kind of thing. Have you tried an LCD monitor or HDTV?

I'm really betting it's the monitor.
 
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