Razer Naga Epic or Cyborg MMO 7?

Discussion in 'Mice and Keyboards' started by jimbodan, Feb 19, 2012.

Razer Naga Epic or Cyborg MMO 7?

  1. Razer Naga Epic

    21 vote(s)
    56.8%
  2. Cyborg MMO 7

    16 vote(s)
    43.2%
  1. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    I'm looking for a new gaming mouse to replace my old Sidewinder X8. I never really liked it and regretted the purchase almost from day 1. It doesn't have enough buttons on it and it's too big for me, I have trouble hitting the 2 thumb buttons on it without moving my hand very far forward on it. It also seems to have some interference issues, although since I've gotten a new mousepad those haven't been as frequent so maybe it was just a tracking issue.

    I've been doing research on both the Razer Naga Epic and Cyborg MMO 7 for a few weeks now and I can't decide between them. They both seem like they would work for me. I'm really looking for something that has a lot of buttons that will be easily accessible to me in game without having to fumble around and find the right one. Without having ever used either that's my main concern with the Naga it seems like the button layout wouldn't be very good for me. I feel like with my small hands I'd have issues getting to all the buttons on the Naga Epic and I'm also worried that with all buttons just clustered up I'd have trouble either finding the right button in the heat of the moment or else just fat fingering the wrong button. The MMO 7's layout seems like it would be better and less confusing. I've also heard that the MMO 7's sensor (Basically the Rat 7 sensor) has a lot more issues tracking then the Naga Epic, although I think both the Naga and MMO 7 use the same sensor (Phillips Twin Eye)? I also think I'd really prefer wireless but I think I could live with wired if I absolutely had to and just use my Sidewinder when I really needed wireless. Software wise it also seems like the Naga Epic has better software. I've also heard negative things about Mad Catz customer service should I have a problem, but then again Razer's doesn't seem to be much better either.

    I use something between a palm and finger tip grip, I don't really cup the whole mouse in my palm but I come close, I like the back of my hand to be resting on the mat but still very close to the mouse. I also have small hands. I'd mainly be using the mouse for MMO's (WoW and SWTOR currently) and Diablo 3 when it comes out, as well as other random Indie games (although the 360 pad works best for most of them anyway). I don't play many FPS on my computer and I don't play many RTS games anymore. I plan on using whichever mouse I get on a Gigabyte Ghost GP-MP8000 mousepad, not sure if either mice has issues with it or not. I've tried to check out some local stores to get some hands on time with either mouse but neither Fry's nor Bestbuy had the Naga Epic or even the regular Naga out of the box to play with and no local stores have the MMO 7 at all. Since both mice are so expensive I really want to make sure I get the right one for me, but it's getting to the point where I really need to make a decision. I've read just about every article and watched most all the videos on both mice and still can't decide.

    I'm really only considering the Razer Naga Epic or Cyborg MMO 7. I've considered the G700 and Corsair M90 as well as a couple others in the past but after playing with them and reading up on them I have no interest in any of them.
     
  2. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    So, after thinking it some more I've decided that wireless in some form is a must. I use my current wireless mouse as a basic remote control to watch videos and DVDs from a different room. This doesn't require anything more then a basic wireless mouse and since my Sidewinder X8 already works for this I was thinking I could just leave it connected and installed and just use the on/off switch on the mouse to leave it off except for when I needed it. Would this cause any issues? Having 2 different mice installed and active at the same time on the same computer? If this would cause a problem then it pretty much means only the Naga Epic would be an option.
     
  3. Kueller

    Kueller [H]ardness Supreme

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    There would be no problems having multiple input devices connected. I have 4 devices that can control my cursor and the only issue I run into is when friends grab one of the auxiliary input devices to mess around with.
     
  4. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Thanks! Good to know that it won't cause any issues and let's me still consider the MMO 7.

    Does anyone have any advice or recommendations? I still can't decide. Can anyone familiar with the 2 different sets of software let me know if I might have significantly more issues/complications getting keybinds/macros to work with one rather then the other? I'm just wondering if since the Naga can be set to emulate the Num Pad or 1 -9 with just a switch if it might be more compatible with picky games?
     
  5. cicatriz63

    cicatriz63 [H]Lite

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    I have the naga epic for about a year now and havent had any issues with it. The button layout isnt really too confusing after using it for a few days, and there are little sticky bumps you can put on buttons you tend to miss/confuse. I use it for WoW and i also have a profile for LoL that maps the Q W E R D F keys to numbers 1-5 on it. For diablo3 you pretty much don't even need a keyboard with it. Have never used the cyborg so I can't comment on that.
     
  6. Racer_J

    Racer_J Gawd

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    For what it's worth, I lost all interest in the Naga line when I saw how tiny they are. I've been eying the MMO 7 but, the price is rather high for a mouse. Speaking of sizes, keep in mind that according to Cyborg/MadC.A.T.Z./Saitek, the MMO 7 doesn't allow you to adjust the angle/width of the thumb side of the mouse like the other R.A.T.s do. Given that you have small hands, I doubt that will matter much to you though.

    In case you're wondering why I'm posting (as I own neither the Naga or a R.A.T.) it's because I have experience with the Saitek software (or rather an older version of it) as I own a Cyborg Rumble Pad v3 (the PS2/PS3/PC one). I never had any issues with the software in the past but to be fair, I haven't used the pad or the Saitek software in at least a year. The only issue I recall having was setting up the analog stick on an emulator or two to act as the D-pad but that was an issue with the actual emulator and not the Saitek software. You can probably find more up-to-date experiences with the Saitek software here.

    I also can't comment on the customer service of Cyborg/MadC.A.T.Z./Saitek as I have never had to take advantage of it. Customer service is always hit or miss with any given company as you will always see people singing a company's praises and people damning them to hell and back. I would be concerned though if the people damning a company were statistically higher though even if it could be a situation of the minority being more vocal.

    I don't have any experience with Razor's software so, I can't comment on it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  7. Gmok Bonecrusha

    Gmok Bonecrusha [H]ard|Gawd

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    Pretty much done with Razer. Just snagged the MMO 7 off Amazon. Should be here tomorrow. Will let peeps know how it feels and performs. I REALLY need a mouse with more than 2 thumb buttons I hope this MMO 7 rocks.

    Razer's software is ok IMO. I really never had issues with it. It does what it is supposed to. It does takes a while to load a profile if you are in wireless mode, but wired is fine.

    Making macros is pretty easy. Pick a button. Hit record. Do your keystrokes. Hit stop record. Save and name the macro. Easy. It works fine.

    Reassigning a key in the software is easy. No issues.

    Profiles are easy to make/save.

    My issues with Razer is the build quality of their products.

    I snagged a Rat 7 for a few days but did return it, for a couple reasons. The biggest was the shape/feel of the thumb buttons. With this mouse I will give it a shot again and hopefully be in MMO bliss.
     
  8. Racer_J

    Racer_J Gawd

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    I'll be interested in that review then as the top two buttons on the left/thumb side are the same size and shape (going by the pictures). Given that there are additional buttons though, it may not matter for you.

    Were they awkward in general or just for MMO use?
     
  9. Gmok Bonecrusha

    Gmok Bonecrusha [H]ard|Gawd

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    The thumb buttons had sharp edges. My thumb was hurting after a couple hours. The top 2 buttons look the same shape, but I was thinking along the lines of using the 2 in front and behind the sniper button as my main buttons, along with the sniper. You know, for macro/ability spam. Using the top 2 as needed/rarely.

    Will definitely let people know if it's a keeper.
     
  10. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    I'm definitely interested in your thoughts as well once you get some time with it. My main concerns at this point are probably button placement, Sensor issues, Software, and Reliability. I'm really afraid that with my small hands I won't even be able to use half of the Naga's buttons but since no stores around me have a Naga or MMO 7 for that matter to demo, it makes it really hard to know for sure. That's the main thing that's pushing me toward the MMO 7, the buttons just look less confusing and better laid out. The main things that concern me about the MMO 7 are the potential tracking issues (I've read terrible things about the R.A.T 7 sensor and I don't know if the new 64000 dpi sensor in the MMO 7 fixes any of those issues or not) and the reliability of the mouse in general. I'm also concerned as to whether either mice will work on my Gigabyte Ghost mouse pad. I JUST bought it and really don't want to spend any more money on another mouse pad.

    About the sensor, I've read tons of complaints about the R.A.T 7/9 sensor being too sensitive, jittery, having Z axis issues, and taking up to a second to respond if you lift it and then set it back down. I've read far more complaints about this on the R.A.T series then the Naga, Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the R.A.T 7/9 use the exact same sensor as the Naga line uses? Seems weird that I've read far more complaints about the R.A.T sensor if indeed both mice use the same sensor. Does anyone know if the new 6400 dpi sensor in the MMO 7 actually fix any of the issues people had with the old sensor or does it just add more DPI?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  11. RanceJustice

    RanceJustice [H]ardness Supreme

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    If I'm correct, the 6400 DPI sensor has few problems I've heard of. It is the 5600 that, in both RAT7/RAT9 and Razer Mamba/Naga (earlier versions) I heard really had tracking issues.

    I'm leaning towards the MMO7 because of the design options, plus I've not been happy with Razer drivers in the past, nor Linux compatibility for the Naga series at least at the time I tried it. My MMO7 should be coming tomorrow though; I'm going to try it out and see if it works for me. What I'm most worried about however is how exactly the keys will be defined and how the mouse will perform under Linux. What I've really always liked about some Logitech mice is even those with 5+ buttons, have always been definable even without any extra config software, so long as the drivers are okay You can just go into a game that supports multiple buttons and just start binding stuff to Mouse_Button_9 or whatever. Naga, no go. I hope the MMO7 works out this way in that it is considered a HID device with a discrete mouse/keypad included and thus it isn't simply an issue of hardware/drivers NOT seeing discrete keys and thus instead of binding to Mouse_Button_7 or whatever, the software binds "CTRL+ALT+Z+Q" or something like that to button 7 and then handles the interpretation between the user (ie. When I place Function X on button 7) and the hardware (The mouse creates a macro to say "When CTRL+ALT+Z+Q is pushed, then press Tab+2" or something). So long as the hardware is seen as a discrete set of buttons, then we'll be okay methinks, as opposed to just an overlap of macro buttons that the system really can't tell any different from keyboard commands.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  12. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Good to hear about the sensor! Let me know how you like the mouse when you get it!
     
  13. Racer_J

    Racer_J Gawd

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    IIRC some of the images at the Razor store are pretty close to scale but, they will be a little smaller than the actual device. On my 32" the side profile where all the thumb buttons are is about 0.50" shorter in length and about 0.40" shorter in height. Maybe that will give you a rough idea about their size given that you can not find one locally.

    As far as the MMO 7 goes I'm not surprised you can not find it locally as currently only Amazon and the GameShark stores are stocking it. Newegg finally listed it a few days ago but, they have yet to stock it. It was just released though so there is going to be next to no market saturation for it. In fact it's already sold out at the GameShark store again and is listed as a pre-order again.

    Speaking of sizes, if you're worried about getting to all of the buttons on the Naga, I feel the need ot point out that the RAT 7 (which the MMO 7 is based off of) is considerably larger than the Naga is.

    Naga Epic

    4.57” (Length) x 3.07” (Width) x 1.65” (Height)

    MMO 7

    10.00" (Length) x 6.70" (Width) x 3.90" (Height)

    Granted the buttons are spaced further apart on the MMO 7 but, it's still large compared to the tiny Nagas. That is one of the main draws to me though for the MMO 7as I have used something slightly smaller than the Naga (about the size of its gallery photos at Razer's site) and I know there is no way the Naga will work for my hands. The MMO 7 is the only mouse I have seen thus far that meets the size, button count/placement, and customization I need in a mouse to be both functional and comfortable. I really need to go look at the RAT 7 and 9 in person though before bite on the MMO 7.
     
  14. nsx241

    nsx241 Gawd

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    I've owned both. I went from Naga -> Naga Epic -> MMO7 -> Naga Epic. While the Naga isn't perfect by any means, I absolutely hated the MMO7 (note I'm a palm user). I posted on another thread why I went back to the Naga after trying the MMO7.

    Short summary:

    1. Build quality is poor (worse than Razer). The back palm rest is extremely flimsy and slides with almost no pressure. Thumb directional button is very loose and feels cheap. Pinky replacements are damn near useless since they're angular instead of rounded.

    2. Uncomfortable (again, palm user). There's a gap from your fingers to your palm when you slide the palm rest - very strange feeling since there's no support.

    3. Poor, antiquated software. 4 buttons can't be customized. Software doesn't do automatic profile switching.
     
  15. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Are you sure it's actually 10 inches long? That's about half as long as my G15 keyboard! I see in the product description on Amazon is says 10 inches also but I just don't see how that's possible. Amazon also says my Sidewinder X8 is 8.4 inches long and it's most definitely not. I have the mouse and a ruler right here and it's only about 5 inches long. I don't know how they measure to get 8.4 for the Sidewinder and 10 for the MMO 7.

    I'm going to assume that's a little bit bigger then my current Sidewinder X8 which while it isn't the best fit is still ok. It's a little big but I'm hoping the customization options on the MMO 7 will make a little bit more comfortable. I think I can deal with a less then comfortable mouse since I've been using my current one for awhile and I don't really like how it feels. I'm really more worried about the size, placement, and accessibility of the thumb buttons.

    This probably isn't the best test but I turned my cable remote on it's side and put my thumb over the keypad and practiced trying to push the buttons and it didn't go very well I had a hard time reaching them all without either contorting my thumb or moving my whole hand. I also found it very hard to know which button I was pressing without looking. I'm afraid the Naga will also be like that. That's really what draws me to the MMO 7 it seems like I wouldn't get confused over which button I was hitting. I am still concerned about the spacing of the thumb buttons on the MMO 7 though I'm not sure how easy it would be for me to actually be able to get to all of the MMO 7 thumb buttons without having move my whole hand.
     
  16. Pitbully

    Pitbully [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've had a Naga since they came out. I have big hands, (I'm 6'4"), so I was defiantly worried about using all the thumb buttons on it. Once you get used to it though, its a breeze and you'll wonder how you ever went without it in games. Buttons 7-12 are the hardest for me to reach, (no doubt do to my yeti sized hands), Razer supply's small rubber pads with the Naga to put on the buttons, in any pattern, to get used to them. It defiantly helps when you start using it. The Naga is smaller then the Sidewinder, I came from using one. The Sidewinder feels way more bulky and clunky then the Naga, I'd never go back to it.
     
  17. TESLA

    TESLA Gawd

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    Another mouse which you may be interested in is the Logitech G700.

    It has excellent wireless performance, and has multiple thumb buttons just like the other two. Build quality is also well ahead of Razer.

    The battery life is rather low (3-4 hours) on its max settings, but it has a wired mode and battery indicator display so you can transition to wired before you run out. It also uses a standard (Eneloop) AA rechargeable battery, so if you have more of those around and a charger, you can swap during downtime rather quickly and never worry about wired mode at all.

    EDIT: Sorry I jumped the gun and somehow missed the last line in your OP. If you have no interest in the G700, then I would go with the Razer. The Naga Epic is a great mouse, but Razer's software always seems to break something for me. So the mouse tends to sit unused these days.
     
  18. Gmok Bonecrusha

    Gmok Bonecrusha [H]ard|Gawd

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    Got my MMO 7 today.

    Software thus far is pretty easy to use, with no problems. Can adjust anything from DPI to mouse colors, to modes. Easy to use, and it works. Making macros is same as always.

    This mouse has a retarded amount of buttons. On the thumb piece alone there are 8 IF you count the 2nd scroll wheel...which you can program both directions. I THINK 16 are programmable. The one button I LOVE is the button your thumb rests on. It has the perfect feel, and easy of use.

    There is a feature that allows you to just set a button to keep being pressed for anyone that cares.

    They took away the ability to swing the thumb rest in and out from the mouse. I never really messed with that so hey. All the standard R.A.T adjustments are there. Palm rests, pinky rests, weights.

    The mouse is the R.A.T 7 but I will explain anyway.The mouse is not as comfortable in my hand as the deathadder/mamba. Feels a little too flat. The upper thumb buttons have the same hard edges that get your thumb hurting. ALL the other buttons feel great though. They are all not easy to reach with my big mitts though. Especially those more toward your palm.

    The sensor does appear to have the same ol' lift issue. Slightly to the south east(The mouse is so...wide with the pinky rest, I am not sure what to make of it to be honest). Very minute IMO. It does track beautiful though. I have zero issues in BC2 or BF3, though it took me a couple hours to get used to the mouse.

    I will keep it. The extra thumb buttons mean everything to me in Rift and MMO's in general. I can eliminate some of the longer macros, and be more "precise" in my rotations and tanking. Can't wait to hit a dungeon tonite to see if my already awesome tanking becomes flawless!
     
  19. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Thanks for the review! Do you think the buttons would be any easier to reach for someone with small hands, or would it be even worse?
     
  20. Skripka

    Skripka [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I love my Naga. Best advice I can give is go to a B&M like BestBuy etc and look and feel one. I have largish hands and the Naga is a step down in mice size. Ends up fitting my hand shape nicely.
     
  21. Racer_J

    Racer_J Gawd

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    I thought the same thing when I originally posted that lol. I don't think Amazon is accurate either as that would be comical at best. I've seen videos on youtube though with the Naga and MMO7 in the same video and it is considerably larger. I don't know if it's twice as large as the measurements indicate. It's possible Amazon listed the packaging dimensions on the MMO7. In addition to that, it could also be the measurement with the palm rest fully extended. Amazon was the only sight I saw measurements at though and even the RAT 7 is listed as 8.5" there.

    Perhaps Nsx241 or Gmok can clarify the actual size.


    I did a similar test with the mouse I have that's a little smaller than the Naga. Even ignoring trying to mimic all the individual thumb buttons, it's incredibly uncomfortable for my thumb/hand to move around in the vicinity that those buttons would be. Granted, my thumb isn't used to moving at those angles/positions but it quickly leads to a cramping/discomfort in the "padded" area of my thumb/palm are. For clarifaction, I'm talking about the part of the hand where the Carpometacarpal (basilar joint), Trapezoid, Trapezium, and Scaphoid bones are located. The muscle in this area is known as the Thenar.

    (Yes, I totally Googled it)

    My hands have a high level of dexterity but, I absolutely can not stand the way my hand feels when moving my thumb like I would have to on the Naga. I know the Naga is slightly larger than the mouse I am trying to mimic it on and that no level of "simulation" is the same as the actual Naga but I just don't see it working for me at all. I'll eventually go look at both the Naga and the RAT 7 in person (in their packaging most likely) to get a better idea of the size and feel. Right now though I have a second defective TV and a motherboard RMA to deal with so I'm not exactly in a rush to make another electronics purchase on something I'm not totally sold on yet.
     
  22. Yakk

    Yakk [H]ardness Supreme

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    Been using my Naga since it came out and use it for everything, DDO, LOL, CAD work...etc... all have profiles, so it's been getting plenty of use.

    It is very small, if it would be maybe just 25% bigger it would be great, I was a palm user but I got used to it & accuracy improved actually.
     
  23. Egrimm

    Egrimm Limp Gawd

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    I'm very happy with my non-epic Naga, The software is very nice in windows 7. It seems small at first but when I got used to it the size is actually rather nice.
     
  24. cheenou77

    cheenou77 Gawd

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    do the m90 from corsair if you can. I'll probably have one coming that I am willing to sell off. Although there may be driver issues. It should be a perfect alternative to the naga.
     
  25. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    I've only tried demos of the Cyborg RAT mice. However I've owned a few Razer products and the quality on them has never been good. From the original Boomslang to the Copperhead, and even the Death Adder, I think they are all pretty close to shit. They are plagued with ridiculous firmware problems and terrible build quality. Ergonomics are subjective, so I won't get into that much to say that no model I've seen from them really felt right in my hands. They are always either too big or too small, or their button layouts are simply crap for my hands. All that being said, the Phillips Twin-Eye in the RAT series and most likely in the MMO7, has a sorted reputation. Though I myself haven't experienced any problems with the RAT series in the short periods in which I used them.

    So my vote is for ANYTHING other than Razer mice.
     
  26. Racer_J

    Racer_J Gawd

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    I see what you did there and it made me giggle incessantly.
     
  27. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    I still keep going back and forth, every time I think I'm about to decide at the last second I change my mind. If only the MMO 7 had automatic profile switching and was wireless I'd get it for sure. I'm still really leaning toward the MMO 7 but something always pulls me back to the Naga before I make the decision.

    I think I've decided the only way I'll ever be able to decide is to somehow actually test them out. I'm going to try calling some other Best Buy's and Fry's and see if any of them have a Rat or Naga out of the box (the Fry's and Best Buy closest to me that I went to didn't have any Naga's or RAT's out of the box), or else just buy both on Amazon and return whichever I like the least. Does anyone know of any other stores on the West Coast (California) besides Fry's and Best Buy that might have the mice out?

    Each one has it's pluses and minuses but really what it's all going to come down to is which one feels better and allows me the best access to the extra buttons.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  28. Racer_J

    Racer_J Gawd

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    I'm surprised neither Fry's nor Best Buy would open one. Granted it's a "big ticket" item and Razer isn't going to make or provide a "shell" demo but I used to open stuff all the time (at another company) that wasn't on display as you just sent it back to the manufacturer for credit if it wasn't purchased or you couldn't use it as a demo.

    You can try a Google shopping search to see if anyone local to you has it in stock but, that type of search can be pretty inaccurate. In might point you in the right direction though. Microcenter has two stores in CA but I don't know how close they are to you.
     
  29. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    I called all the Best Buy's and Fry's within about 20 miles and no one had the Naga out of the box to try, not even the old regular Naga. I figured no one would have the MMO 7 so I asked about the RAT 7 and that was a no go also. Microcenter is about 2 hours away but I might be in that area this weekend. Unfortunately all that comes up on Google shopping is Best Buy, Fry's, and Gamestop (fat chance of them having it out). I'm thinking of just going to Fry's and opening a Naga box myself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
  30. Gmok Bonecrusha

    Gmok Bonecrusha [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just an update on the MMO7. The software appears to be a little buggy. I build several profiles. I save them, and try to use the profile swap via the mouse button...and I get nothing. Go to swap profiles a couple minutes later...it works.

    Also the tray. I can see the profiles, but can not swap them via the tray icon.

    The only sure fire way, is for me to save the profiles externally, and swap them via upload. PITA to say the least.

    I have gotten used to the mouse size/feel. My thumb is no longer sore. My only little beef is that a couple buttons are REALLY hard to press. The lower/forward thumb button especially.

    Overall I like the mouse, and will keep it.
     
  31. Racer_J

    Racer_J Gawd

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    I never switch profiles on my G11 so that may not be a huge drawback for me. I can see it being a no go for others though. Hopefully they will resolve it with a software update and figure out a way to activate profile switching based on application launch/use.


    This on the other hand was rather disappointing to read. I guess it's better to have buttons that are to hard to press rather than buttons that are to sensitive. I wonder if they will "break-in" over time.
     
  32. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Thanks for the update. Profile switching seems to be an issue with the MMO 7, I don't know why they couldn't just do automatic profile switching like every other major mouse maker has for the last 5 years or so, especially considering how expensive the MMO 7 is.

    I decided to just buy both mice and then return the one I liked the least. Both came in the mail today but I haven't decided which to open first. Even though I have both I'd prefer to not open them both if possible. Ideally whichever one I open first I'll like and then just send the other back unopened.
     
  33. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Feb 19, 2012
    Just a quick update.

    I decided to open the MMO 7 and I've been playing with it a little bit for the last couple of hours. Unfortunately WoW is offline for maintance and my copy of SWTOR is a birthday present that I won't be able to open until later today so I didn't get a chance to really test it much with any MMO's, I only used it for about 20 minutes earlier with WoW and really only was able to test out a macro and the MMO shift button.

    Anyway, my first impressions. Despite all the marketing and talking about these mice being ultra customizable, they really aren't. You can move the thumb buttons forward and backward, and move the palm rest forward and back and really that's a about it. It does have weights you can adjust but for me I don't really see the point. I tried it with all the weights and then with none of the weights and I didn't really notice much of a difference. Only thing I did notice was without the weights it was harder to use some of the thumb buttons, especially the 5 hat, without moving the whole mouse. To be fair I didn't open up the box with the different palm and pinky rests yet.

    As for the feel of the mouse it's hard to explain. I've read a lot of people make jokes about being afraid it would cut or poke them with shard corners and this isn't the case at all. It's actually really really smooth to the touch, too smooth really. My hand almost slides off of it. It's also been hard to find the right way for me to hold it comfortably. I wouldn't say it's uncomfortable to hold, but it doesn't fit like a glove either. I don't really like the default palm rest, it almost seems too low, too slick, and too narrow. I was a little worried about the tool on the back sticking out and poking my hand, but it isn't too big of a deal. I usually don't notice it but sometimes I can feel it with my palm. It's also very hard to lift the mouse up since it's so slick it's hard to really grip tightly, also it's hard to find a spot for your thumb to pick it up without hitting a thumb button. Best place I've found is right on top of the precision aim button since it requires a little bit of force to push. It's hard to really explain but the mouse just feels weird. I also find it a little weird to move around since in order to gripe it you pretty much have to have your thumb on top of button holding it gently so you don't accidentally press something.

    On to button placement. I'd say for the most part it's laid out ok. Like I said I'd prefer the action lock buttons in a different place, especially since I can't even think of a use for that feature in MMO's. The button to switch profiles is also in a terrible place for me. I can't hit without changing my entire grip and moving my whole hand. I do however really like the placement of the MMO shift button. Either my ring finger or pinky rest on it pretty comfortably depending on how I grip it and I can very easily push it without having to shift my entire grip or move my hand. So that basically lets me easily double the number of buttons which is a big plus. The thumb buttons seem fairly well placed. I'm not fully used to them yet but I can reach them all mostly without much effort. My biggest gripes with them are the placement of the bottom thumb button and how hard it is to press. It takes significant effort to press the bottom thumb button and it's not in the most convenient location. If i rest my thum on the hat switch then if i move my thumb straight down I can barely reach it with the tip of my fingernail, if it were easy to press it wouldn't be so bad, but it isn't. The 5 way hat switch also takes some getting used to. Without all of the weights it's hard to press it without moving the whole mouse. I wonder if maybe having it stick out a little more would have helped. You kind of have to shift your whole grip to press it. I've also read people complain about the action lock buttons placements and hitting them accidentally. While I'd prefer they would be a different spot since they end up really close to where I click the main buttons I've yet to hit them accidentally or even come close to doing it.

    Software. The software is a bit confusing and not very user friendly, that being said for me anyway it's been working well. It took me maybe 30 min to an hour to figure it all out to the point where I was comfortable making profiles and assigning macros to buttons. It's annoying to have to manually select a profile but once selected they've worked fine for me. Only real issue I've had is sometimes after making a change it won't register it, even after I've saved, unless I click on the test button first and test it. It's not a big deal though, probably a good idea to test it first anyway to make sure you have it programmed right anyway. They also have a profile pack that has a lot of profiles for just about any type of game. While the keybinds in the profiles might not be the best, the profiles have lots of pre-configured actions that you can easily assign to anything yourself, think of them almost like a bunch of game specific pre-made macros.

    I've also heard people complain about the tracking and z-axis on the R.A.T mice, so far I really haven't had any issues. It tracks really well on my Gigabyte cloth mouse pad and the z-axis movement really doesn't seem a whole lot worse them on my Sidewinder X8. One possible issue I do have with the sensor is that it almost seems to have some sort of deceleration compared to my Sidewinder X8. When I move it really slow it moves really slow, where as my Sidewinder would move faster. I'm not really sure what it is. It could just be a better more precise sensor then what I'm used to (I have them both set to 2000 dpi). It's just kind of weird since I'm used to it being one way.

    That's really about all I can think of at the moment. Oh yeah, the LED's kind of suck. Not very bright at all and they only sort of light up the front of the left and right click. Not a big deal though. I just would have preferred the mouse to be a little bit more lit up. Hopefully tomorrow I can get some more game time in and get used to it a little bit more. As for a verdict, I'm really not sure. I don't absolutely love it, but I don't dislike it either. I really really like the MMO Shift feature, but I don't really like how I have to hold it and it's really hard to pick up, not that I pick up the mouse a lot, but it just feels really weird when I do have to. I'm probably going to have to open the Naga in a couple days and see how it compares since right now I'm not 100% sold on the MMO 7, but we'll see.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  34. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Feb 19, 2012
    I hadn't messed with multiple profiles yet since I really can't hit the profile button easily, but I just gave it a try and I didn't have any issues swapping profiles. I just did something simple and left all the buttons the same except for the thumb wheel. I changed both of those and then swapped via the button and it worked fine. Granted I only tried it a couple of times so who knows.
     
  35. Gmok Bonecrusha

    Gmok Bonecrusha [H]ard|Gawd

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    Jun 16, 2004
    Just a heads up on the MMO7...again.

    The sniper button I just realized has 5 positions you can assign a button/macro to! That's 12 THUMB buttons alone. I LOVE this even more!
     
  36. Racer_J

    Racer_J Gawd

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    Jan 17, 2012
    The only one I can think of is locking your camera movement so that you can just move the mouse about without holding the key down. Locking the movement key is pointless as that has always had a default bind on the mouse.

    I'm guessing you can't disable these in the software seeing as how you can;t change their binds.

    I'm also curious if you can disable the LED. I doubt that you can given that the LED change colour when you use the shift button on the mouse to trigger a different set of binds/macros.
     
  37. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Feb 19, 2012
    That was all I could think of too, I tried it and it's still really not useful. I'm hoping maybe in SHMUPS or possibly Action RPG's the feature might be useful. Maybe. I tried playing around with the LED's a little bit and I couldn't find an option to disable them.
     
  38. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Feb 19, 2012
    So, does anyone know what's up with this seemingly "negative acceleration"? I'm not really sure what it is. I just know that compared to my Sidewinder X8 the MMO 7 moves the cursor wayyyy slower when I move my hand very slowly (same DPI setting on both mice, 2000). I'm not sure if it has something built it in or if I have some setting accidentally activated or if it's just due to a better more precise sensor? Either way it's taking me some getting used to and causing me some frustrations.
     
  39. Racer_J

    Racer_J Gawd

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    I'm not entirely sure on what's causing it. Is it just during slow movement that you notice a difference or at all movement speeds? If it's at all of speeds, you could always increase your mouse pointer speed in the Windows control panel if it really bothers you. I'm not trying to downplay how much it bugs you as it would irritate anyone to have a "change" in gameplay. Even just one changed keybind can throw you off so I can only imagine how frustrating a mouse speed change can be.
     
  40. jimbodan

    jimbodan n00b

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    Feb 19, 2012
    Everything is great until I start moving slow. I'm hoping it's just a more precise sensor tracking more accurately. I still have my Sidewinder hooked up and used them both at the same time and there is definitely a difference. The Sidewinder also seems a lot more jerky whereas the MMO 7 is a lot smoother. I'm going to give the Naga a try tomorrow so if it feels the same way then it's probably just the sensor. Either way it's not a huge deal, but like you said changes like that take time to get used to and feel very weird at first, especially since I've been using my current mouse for almost 2 years now so I'm very used to how it tracks.