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Raid issues

L

Luthair

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 7, 2003
Messages
117
I got a P4C800-deluxe and two 120 gig harddrives(IDE) Can I raid them even tho there arent SATA? Do I need to do anything tricky or what not? I never tried this before....
 
There won't be any speed loss versus putting them on a regular IDE RAID controller.
That's probably the best way to go.
The other way is software striping in Windows (which is not bootable, remember!) which eats up CPU clocks, and the only application I see for that is a graphical workstation, soooo..... :)
 
Originally posted by Luthair
Is that the only way? is there any speed loss or such?
Click to expand...

http://www.ata-atapi.com/sata.htm
currently about a 10% to 20% slower do to the added overhead
of course most "SATA" drives have the same issue, because the converters are just internal, there are a few "native" SATA HDDs on the market the Seagate 7002.7 is one
 
Really? I would think I would've noticed a 20% difference. Hrm.

Not saying SATA doesn't have it's problems either, but GEEZ is that site cynical.
I feel like I'm reading an anti-iraq-war webpage instead of a page about computer hardware :p
And uhm, unshielded SATA cables? Oooookay. I even was able to buy shielded ones when I got my raptors about 2 months after they first came out so I have no idea what he's talking about, and here's one:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=316603

"serial interfaces rarely live up to their marketing claims. " ?
Man, that USB, it sucks. Nobody uses it. ;)

This guy just sounds bitter.
So, wondering if he really is, off to storagereview.com we go for some sort of benchmark...

http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200309/20030904WD2500JD_1.html

This review, linked on their front page, of the WD2500JD just kind of makes me think ANY loss is not there, since although the serial ata drive performs a LITTLE better, that's negligible. They perform the same.

So, no offense Ice Czar, but I seriously have a hard time believing anything on that site. It seems more like an emotional rant based on 0 facts, or something written before the technology even had a few months to have reasonable range of products made for it.
 
actually ATA-ATAPI.com has been around for a long time, (Imaged Mar 09, 2000)
Hale is well respected, and often cited.
He is however a "critic" and developer of the standard, not a cheering section.
The Register
Hale Landis maintains the ata-atapi.com website, and has been working for open standards for 25 years. He has been a participant in the ANSI X3/NCITS Technical Committees that developed the ATA and ATA/ATAPI standards since 1990, and works as a consultant and provider of test software.
Click to expand...

I picked up the heads up on SATA implementation issues over at Storagereview's forums, just like PATA cables, the cautions are a good idea. (Where did you get sheilded SATA cables?)

I would assume the 10>20% dates from the initial release and some optimization of the Manufacturers PATA to SATA conversion card has been implemented
But aftermarket converters are just that, so the 10>20% is more likely, that is actually not all that much and would also assume the 10% is closer than the 20%

;)
 
Originally posted by Ice Czar

(Where did you get sheilded SATA cables?)
Click to expand...

I actually got them from zipzoomfly, but they were even more back then (that link I posted - aren't they expensive enough now? Geez!), not sure if that's the same brand though.
However, I wasn't about to take a chance with the raptors or the two WD1200JDs in my server :)

Pretty cool what that guy does, maybe he should do a follow up criticism like 6 months later, cuz obviously if he's doing all that work he's probably getting preproduction products and all to mess with initially too and then probably more products later on :)

This cable made me wonder when I found it:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=12-104-658&depa=0
Would what they use to make it glow in the dark actually shield it? Hrm :p

http://www.thermaltake.com/accessories/roundCables/RoundCable.htm

Thermaltakes Serial ATA farther down are cheap and PVC shielded, but those weren't out then.
The Thermaltakes are hot looking though (and at NewEgg), maybe I needa get me some :D
 
glow-in-the-dark

:p


PVC is a poor sheilding material *basic cheap PATA cables) Teflon or Thermoplastic Olefin (TPO) is muh better

or grounded wire mesh even better

I think Hale is pissed off over the "standard" not calling for sheilding
 
Yeah, I figured that's why he was mad.

PVC sure beats the crap out of nothing though :)

I knew about Teflon and wire mesh, but never heard of TPO before.
 
if we put it like this, my cable is 'shielded' too, I cant see the actual wiring inside. I guess the unshielded ones look much like PATA cables? Anyway grounded alu foil will be, altough initial tests reveal this is going to get hard as a stick :rolleyes:
 
Well, thanks for all the info, I had no idea cabling was so shitty. I just picked up that shielded SATA cable to check out along with those Gladiater super shielded ATA and Floppy cables.
 
there has always been crappy and overkill cabling, generally speaking, the standards address errors (ATA, SCSI) but as speeds have increased the warts are easier to spot
and if the data is important (and the performance)
thats why companies can sell $250 External SCSI Cables
and why enterprises adopt Fibre Channel (speed and reliability)
ATA being unterminated suffers more than SCSI, but if there are issues in any implementaion, there are issues
testing with a checksum is a good idea, copying files and comparing them, in addition there is a demo version of ATA Command Test (ATACT) which Im trying to figure out (when I get some time)

Id also recommend you read
Corrupted Files!?

specifically the
SATA and the 7 Deadly Sins of Parallel ATA
ATA Not So Frequently Asked Questions
 
I have 3 SATA drives and I would like to have shielded cables, what do you suggest?
 
wow - I have just noticed a HUGE slow down on a new system with a RAID1 SATA set (details in sig) and this could be it. I notice my data cables and power cables do not stay on the drives well, also. The connectors are sort of lame and I need to re-seat them all the time when I work on my machine... unlike my regular IDE cables... I have cooler-master UV SATA cables now, the drives are spread out from each other (in different drive cages) and the cables are not bent sharply, but they do run near fans and other electrical components... two of which are my 6800GTs... I would think two badass high perf video cards could throw off something (RF? ) which could disturb SATA data flow... wow... hmmm... I will have to re-route and try different cables tonight to see if things improve... I mean, waiting three - five minutes for a doom3 level to load from a RAID1 volume is bad. something is up, and this seems to be the only thing which fits the mysterious nature of this sudden disk lag... BTW - I do not have any viruses or spyware...

EDIT: wow - this was an old thread. heh
 
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