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RAID - drive change out question

G

GCS

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
483
I have 2 Raid 6 arrays in my home media server - 1 12 drive array and 1 8 drive array. They are running on separate 3ware 9650SE cards with BBU installed.

Its time to move on from the 2TB drives that are installed. Would like to move to 4TB drives to increase capacity and cut down on the # of drives.

To put it simply I don't have 3-4k to buy all new 4TB drives, set up a new array and move the data to it so my question is ...

Can I buy 2- 4 drives at a time and swap one drive into the the array at time and over the course of say 6 months - year get all of these swapped out?

Will have mismatched drives in the array be an issue (ie 2TBs mixed with 4TBs) and then once the array is all 4TB drives will I be able to expand it w/o issue to take advantage of the additional space?

FYI this is running on Windows 7 Pro.

Are the WD Red Drives still the preferred raid drive these days w/o going enterprise level?

Thanks in advance.

Greg
 
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If your raid controller supports online expansion then yes, you can swap out the smaller drive and replace it with a larger drive, let the drive rebuild, so on and so forth until you have replaced all the drives, then you can expand the array and gain the new space. Running the array with larger drives before they are all replaced should not be a problem. Drive brand is a personal choice, but yes the WD Red's are a favourite.
 
Throwing out my two cents: rather than buy drives over time when you're not really going to make use of them, why not just save up over the 6 months to a year so that you're benefitting in the end from (1) whatever the latest technology is (2) the expected continued trend of prices dropping back down from the flood-driven spikes (and/or any sales that come along) and (3) helping to ensure some continuity in drives you choose (so you don't end up having to mix and match)?

I think it'd be different if you were having issues with the 2TB drives, but personally, I don't see much upside to a "gradual upgrade/migration" approach to counter the risk (you're introducing additional risk by rebuilding your array as you swap out each drive, especially on what is a relatively low-end controller card).
 
Either way if he plans on replacing the drives within the current array then he's going to have to one at a time anyways. The array should still be usable while doing the rebuilds. So spreading out is practical.

If he were to just buy them all at once he would need a 3rd controller to create a 3rd array to copy from the old to the new.
 
westrock2000 said:
Either way if he plans on replacing the drives within the current array then he's going to have to one at a time anyways. The array should still be usable while doing the rebuilds. So spreading out is practical.

If he were to just buy them all at once he would need a 3rd controller to create a 3rd array to copy from the old to the new.
Click to expand...

This is correct now we are talking additional cost in not only all the drives but a 3rd controller card (4th as well if I wanted to swap both arrays ... and even have to build a new server). This is not realistic even when considering that it appears I have "fairly low end raid card" (didn't know the 9650se was considered low end). I had a 24 port very expensive Areca card before this and I thought it performed much worse than the 9650 cards.


I don't disagree with saving up and buying latest gen/cheaper pricing on the drives. I still wouldn't be able to swap out all 8 at one time (12 for the other array). If I had a way to back up 12tb of data (20tb on the other) and then restore it then I would definitely back up an array, replace all drives, restore the data.
 
Sorry - I should've clarified the "fairly low end" comment. Compared to many "RAID" cards on the market, it's a far better solution. However, compared to the higher end enterprise level cards, it has a somewhat slower processor and not a ton of memory. Probably not noticeable in day-to-day operations, but may become an issue when it's time to rebuild the array. FWIW - I had a card similar to the 9650 in many ways (don't recall the exact model, but the specs were similar), and though it nominally supported the migration/expansion approach you've laid out, in practice, it failed miserably on me (this was a 10x1TB RAID6 array that I was trying to move to 2TB drives. One of the 1TB drives got lost during a rebuild, and the array got scrambled. I had backed up what was irreplaceable, so wasn't too upset with the loss.) Of course, your mileage may vary.

As far as a bigger bang migration strategy - why not get enough to replace one array? Shouldn't that make things easier?

For example: You have two identical controller cards (let's call them A & B). You have two existing arrays (1&2) and you buy enough drives for a new one (3).

Right now, you have A-1, B-2, and 3 is in boxes. Unplug 2 from B. Put 3 on B. Move data from 1 to 3. Unplug 1 and 3. Put 3 on A, 2 back on B. 2 was just powered down for a while, so should be completely fine. Since the cards are identical, 3 should show up just fine on A, and you've just migrated your data from array 1 to the new disks in one fell swoop, without pesky rebuilds with your live unbacked up data.
 
Well that will sure suck if the array gets screwed up in the rebuild process, uggh.

Still the downside of moving up is laying out close to 2k for 12 4tb. Hope the prices do come down in the next few months as that would make this a little easier to swallow.
 
Well, you're either laying out close to $2k in small chunks over the next however many months before you gain capacity, or waiting until the end to blow the whole thing.

To at least start thinking about other options or maybe a slightly different plan of action, I'm curious:
1. How static are the data? (i.e., is it largely a big media collection that grows a bit over time, or is it a fairly dynamic collection of stuff?)
2. How close to capacity are you now?
3. How much capacity do you want to end up with?
 
It is all movies and TV shows. Changes occur when I rip new items and place them on the server so not very often.

I have about 8TB of space left total between the 2 arrays so it won't be long before I am full. I am not done with ripping my collection unfortunately and who knows if I ever will be.

Eventual capacity .. who knows.

I am actually considering something like Flexraid or Unraid now using the infamous IBM M1015 card(s) as it sounds like what I really need (flexibility wise that is).

Lots to think about.

Greg
 
There always is a lot to consider...though it's taken me years (and many wasted dollars) to realize that. :)

Depending on where you are as far as maxing out the connections on your 9650SE cards, or even your motherboard, you could (theoretically) use your current cards/PC to support a move to Flexraid/Unraid/etc. without spending thousands of dollars upfront. (Since your data is fairly static, something like the Snapshot RAID form of Flexraid could make a lot of sense.)

Based on what you've said, you have 32TB of capacity between the two arrays (20TB on 1, 12TB on the other), so 24TB of stuff. (For simplicity, I'm going to ignore the whole "2TB drive is not really 2TB in Windows because of the different number bases" complication). WIth 24TB of stuff, you need 4TB beyond what's available in the larger array to take the smaller one offline.

Therefore, in theory, you could buy as few as 2 4TB drives, start your new software-based pool just on those two drives, move everything off of the smaller array to either the new pool or old array, add the 8x2TB drives to this new pool, fully configure any redundancy/duplication/etc., and start moving stuff to the new (much larger) pool.

Alternatively, you could just use the 2 4TB drives as a temporary holding location while you "convert " (i.e., move data off, wipe it out as a hardware array, create a software-based pool) the 8x2TB drive RAID6 array into a FlexRaid/unraid/etc. storage pool, and then add the 4TB drives later on, expanding as you go. Then, as resources allow you to buy additional drives, you could get things migrated from the 12x2TB RAID6 array to your new software-based pool, and then start decommissioning some of the 2TB drives.
 
Thanks for all the wisdom, I like it.

I have decided to do something along those lines.

I found a deal on some Toshiba (Hitachi of course) 3TB 7200rpm drives for $90 each. Going to grab 10 of those set up flexraid and roll with it. This will only give me one parity drive for now or 2 if I am willing to do the bare minimum to move my data over to the new pool. I did grab an IBM M1015 card off ebay today so I should be all set with it and the ports on the new board (it has 8 ports available). I will run W7 off an msata drive installed directly on the motherboard.

I'll pull one full array (just to make room for all the new drives actually) move the data from the other array then put the pulled array back in and move its data as well.

I figure the 2TB drives can be sold off real cheap to move them (say $35 each) and the raid cards with BBU have to be worth at least $100 each. Figure that nets me back at least 8-900 bucks assuming I can't get the exact pricing I want and I eat shipping of course on the sales. Leaves me with roughly $200 or so in the swap out. I won't have gained any space yet but will have replaced some 4 year old (working on 5) drives with some newer larger and faster drives.

Would prefer 4TB but these Toshibas at this price seem to good to skip out on.

Greg
 
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