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Radiator airflow question

D

DMF Computing

n00b
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
10
planning on ordering/building new WC system in about a month.
i dont see being able to fit a double 120 rad in my system, so id go with a single 120. im planning to make a hole in the bottom of the case and put the rad over it, and blow through the rad (the "feet" on the case are about 1", that should be enough room for air to escape). im looking to do this reasonably quietly, and im looking at a probable DD kit of Hydor L35 (small and powerful) TDX (my athlon64 3500+) maze4 GPU (single 6800gt), a8n maze4 chpiset (asus a8n sli deluxe nf4 mobo), and a single 5 1/4" bay rad (i only have 1 available bay). for a rad fan, i noticed this one http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produ...4&cat=37&page=1 with 80CFM and only 30dba. Im not sure about what rad to get though, i cant fit anything on top of my case, so i have to go on the bottom -- putting a pump and rad there single 120 makes most sense. would i be better off with a black ice pro (thinner, more performance from less airflow) or extreme(more general performance and needs more airflow, tho i dunno if 80cfm is enough), or something else?
 
bump... anyone have any idea on this?
also, for cutting a 120mm hole in the bottom of the case, what would be the best tool/idea to do that? (im a n00b at modding)
 
i know, my question is basically what is a less powerful fan, is that 80 cfm evercool considered powerful or not
 
I'd say 80CFM is probabaly average, and best for a pro. High airflow would be in the range of 130CFM+.
 
ok, thx.
im starting to think i might be able to make room for a bi pro 2, tho it would be tough. what would be better cooling, putting 2 80cfms on the double pro, or 80 cfms on either side of a bi extreme 1?
 
You will get better potential cooling from the dual rad but many people are very happy with a single rads performance. Persoanally I go for the 'bigger is better' line of thinking.
 
ok, ill go with a dual 120 rad. my question would be, in your experience, whats best to use (lower price for me is better, and the latter option saves me $25) with 2 relatively quiet 120mm fans: the black ice pro 2, or DD's double heatercore/shroud. this is going to power a TDX on a 3500+ winnie, a maze4 on gpu, and a8n maze4 on chpiset (all of which i want to OC as far as i can) with a hydor L35 pump. and since this rad is going to sit at the bottom of the case (nowhere else) would it be particularly hard to cut a hole (im going to blow out of the bottom, saves dust problems) for the double heatercore?
also, the evercools i mentioned above, 30dba/80cfm each, are two of those going to be loud? if so, what could i get for a quieter fan with good performance?
any help is appreciated, thx
 
As far as i know the heatercores are for high performance fans, so prob the pro.

As far as cutting the holes go, a 120mm hole saw should be fine, just go into some scrap wood underneath, and mask it off first or the centre drill will slip.
 
Herulach said:
As far as i know the heatercores are for high performance fans, so prob the pro.
Click to expand...

This isn't so true, alot of radiators are just made from heatercores. And I'm pretty sure DD's 120mm and dual 120mm rads are just painted/slightly modded heatercores.
 
Megadeth_Guy01 said:
This isn't so true, alot of radiators are just made from heatercores. And I'm pretty sure DD's 120mm and dual 120mm rads are just painted/slightly modded heatercores.
Click to expand...
bonneville heatercores are similar thickness to the BIX2, the BIP2 is thinner and less restrictive to air flow.
 
ok, if i go for the bip2, whats a good performing quiet fan i can use? not necessarilly silent (i intend to OC well) but not so loud as to be disturbing. would two of the evercool 80cfm/30dba fans be very loud?
and the reason im going for a chipset block is that i want to replace the loud and annoying stock fan on the a8n sli dlx, and figure that this is the same price as the swiftech active cooler (only active one i can find that fits/performs well) but would be silent, and cool the nf4 well as those things get hot. would the inclusion of the block add so much heat as to hurt performance significantly on the cpu and gpu blocks? (overclockers.com said that the maze4 gpu and chipset blocks had very little flow resistance though a TDX has some, and an L35 is 450gph with 2m of head, so pump is fine)
 
no, two 30 db fans are not very loud. if you have or are going to purchase a fan controller, then it would be nice to tune them down a little bit, but even at full speed they are not overpowering.

i have not been impressed with the two evercool aluminium 80mm fans that i have tried, but you could do a lot worse. as i'm sure many people already know, of the fans that i have tried, delta and panaflo have left me with the best overall impression.

depending on what price you are getting on the hydor L35, you might also want to have a look at the danner mag 5, as it puts up very similar numbers and is a solidly built pump.
 
well, from what i can see, the danner takes up more then twice the wattage (which gets dumped into the water) at 45w as opposed to the L35's 21w, its bigger (im already stretched for space with the bip2 at the bottom, so the small size of the L35 is a nice thing) and ive seen many places saying that i would need to seal up the danner as it frequently leaks... i know it has more head and slightly better gph, but for me it doesnt seem worth it.

as for fans, panaflo lists 68.9 cfm at 30dba for their low speed fans, the delta is only 57.2 cfm for 31 dba, as opposed to 80cfm at the same dba for the evercool. what am i missing?
 
The way fans are rated is not necceserily always fair. And a few manufacturers even rate their fans at 15V. IF you want to get away with a smaller shroud, then deltas focussed flow fans do essentially the same thing but youll need to 7v to even get the noise down to standable levels. My 92mm (120cfm i believe) can be heard 2 rooms away at 12V, although its tolerable at 7, and very quiet at 5, only thing is, it doesnt spin up at 5V.
 
Most DC 12 volt fans dont work below 7 volts (some do, but they are few and far between), so that would explain why it doesnt spin at 5 volts.

I'd say if your going to use a fan controller, then get louder higehr airflow fans. My 131 CFM YSTech fan is rated for 45 dba. Its abit loud on 12 volts, but down at 7 volts its not very loud at all, and with that setup you always have the extra CFM there if you ever wanted to use it.
 
based on the size constraints, i will agree that the L35 makes more sense, but i'll disagree on the leakage and heat front.

the area of my danner that gets hot is a sort of lobe area that extends away from the impeller housing and contains the magnetic coils, putting most of the heat into the air. i have a bigger danner, but the design of the 5 is very similar.

as for leakage, i would say that the problem is more likely the result of users overtightening their barbs, and not making sure that the gasket is seated properly before putting the housing on. overtighten the barbs, and the impeller housing will crack pretty easily. it's not easy to get the o ring all the way down where it should be, but every time i work it into place before putting the housing on, it seals. every time i get lazy, and don't push it down, the housing leaks.

two panaflo low fans will provide enough airflow to cool adequately, produce low frequency noise, tollerate rough treatment and last a long time. panasonic also rates conservatively. the newer panasonics aren't quite as good as the oldschool units made in japan, but they are still solid fans.

based on the airflow and noise numbers that you put up, you were looking at the delta EFB1212L fan. i was actually thinking more along the lines of an AFB1212LE, which when run at 12 volts is pretty close to 30 db and 78 CFM. remember that delta's official numbers are for the fan being run at 13.2 volts.

the evercool aluminium fans that i have tried did not cool as well as a panaflo with a lower nominal rating, when i tested them in conjunction with a thermalright SP-97 heatsink. this indicates that evercool is either rating more generously than panasonic, or that they are using weaker motors that do not allow the fan to perform as well as the panasonic when blowing against a resistance. it's a relatively crude test, but it puts some doubt on how well the evercools perform.

as a rule single ball bearing fans/motors do not last as long as double bearing designs, as a result of more rapid shaft deformation, and ensuing damage to the bearings and spindle. i have not bothered to try lifespan testing of the evercools, because although i have too much time on my hands, i'm not quite THAT anal.

my two evercool fans were measurably different sizes, which does not speak well for the manufacturing practices used to make them. the fans still work, and the key dimensions seem to be better tollerenced, but their exterior dimensions are off.
 
Herulach said:
The way fans are rated is not necceserily always fair. And a few manufacturers even rate their fans at 15V. IF you want to get away with a smaller shroud, then deltas focussed flow fans do essentially the same thing but youll need to 7v to even get the noise down to standable levels. My 92mm (120cfm i believe) can be heard 2 rooms away at 12V, although its tolerable at 7, and very quiet at 5, only thing is, it doesnt spin up at 5V.
Click to expand...
if you got it recently, then it could be the the reasonably new 126 CFM TFB0912GHE.

if you got it last year, it is more likely the 110 CFM FFB0912EHE.

i really think that using a delta AFB or EFB series fan in conjunction with a shroud will yield a better balance of noise and performance on a thin rad like this, but you do raise a valid point regarding the strengths of the FFB series' corrective vanes.

my own panaflo's and delta will work down a bit below 5 volts, but they will not start up at tthose voltages.
 
DFI Daishi said:
if you got it recently, then it could be the the reasonably new 126 CFM TFB0912GHE.

if you got it last year, it is more likely the 110 CFM FFB0912EHE.

i really think that using a delta AFB or EFB series fan in conjunction with a shroud will yield a better balance of noise and performance on a thin rad like this, but you do raise a valid point regarding the strengths of the FFB series' corrective vanes.

my own panaflo's and delta will work down a bit below 5 volts, but they will not start up at tthose voltages.
Click to expand...
Thats what i meant, they run fine, but you have to give them a bit of a spin or have them already spinning. Its the FFB model. On a thin rad you may be better off with quiet fans if thats all youwant it for, but as i say, this is what id call quiet, certainly no louder than your average 80mm case fan at low voltage, and if youever want to go crazy youve got the option.

The suggestion in the fist place was for space saving, but looking at the thing it wouldnt really work being as its a 2.5" thick.
 
well availability of the lower speed 120x38mm deltas at a decent price appears limited... by froogle at least. what i did find was this
http://www.hardwarecooling.com/product_info.php/cPath/48_82/products_id/566?
the same fan, but 3200 rpm, 130cfm and 48 dba, and at a dirt cheap price (the best part for me, this system comes out of my money)
if i used a fan speed controller (which im thinking of getting) to turn two of these down to 7v, or maybe 5v (theyre rated for anything above 4) would that reduce noise to a tolerable level for someone looking to game and hear only the speaker system (while achieving amazing performance from his OCed equipement) ? ;)
 
at 5 volts, you probably won't even hear the fans, if you are reasonably satisfied with the noise that a standard CPU cooler and PSU makes.
 
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