Vagrant Zero
Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 898
Question. Don't you need DX 9.0c before PS3.0 will be enabled?
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Radeon X800PRO will beat NV40 Ultra
- Thread starter sykkopat
- Start date
ApaThy_NeXT2
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2002
- Messages
- 1,225
DX9c isn't even out yet.
So how are you going to use PS3 with dx9b ?
leukotriene
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2002
- Messages
- 2,664
For everything to be enabled I believe so.
PS3.0 is probably less interesting than VS3.0 for visual effects because PS3.0 is largely concerned with branching, predication and flow control in general.
Whether the R420 will support VS3.0 is unknown.
If the R420 is faster than the NV40 but doesn't support any part of SM3.0 not already supported by the R3XX (centroid sampling, maybe some other stuff), then we'll have a really interesting matchup.
Stereophile
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2003
- Messages
- 5,116
It gives displacement mapping on the beach sand/soft shadows everywhere. It wasn't working on the [H] review.
<huge grain of salt taken>
Jeez, why aren't people just content to wait a few more days until we see actual benchmarks?
Ah well, business as usual... Heh.
As to the other points, we'll see how they play out. ATi's playing the same game this round that nVidia was playing last round--that pushing for performance would affect more people than features. (That NV3x basically lost out on both was the main problem. ) The complaints of PS2.0 versus PS1.x will basically be the same as PS3.0 vs. PS2.0, with the roles reversed (And we don't yet know all the factors yet, such has how NV40 will run fully PS3.0 compared to PS2.0), and probably without the "hand-recoding" shaders part to fit one's architecture, as it seems both R42x and NV4x will run them fairly straight and normal, just at different capabilities.
If R420 runs appreciable better on modern games, and PS3.0 doesn't get pushed or doesn't have much overall impact, then they may well gain more ground, as gamers and general users are affected by what exists more than feature. If enough games come out that show a good difference before R500 shows up, they'll have guessed wrong. If NV4x both has R42x on features and performance, we'll see a reversal of what happened this past gen.
It all depends on the marketplace. Much ado was made of PS2.0-vs-not, and a number of games were able to show it off early. Had HL2 actually shown up, things would have been even worse for nVidia and a much bigger stink made. What will go on with PS3.0 this gen? Unknown. How the marketplace moves this gen will show who guessed right. It could be ATi sacrificed features for performance and margins and ends up looking much the better, or it could be that developers really tap things like PS3.0--and if NV4x handles it well enough, it will outshine R42x. (With all the accompanying cries of "we haven't seen all of what PS2.0 offers yet," just as many say we haven't seen 1.x fully tapped either.) It could be that one or the other handles the PCI-Express transition to better results. Someone's AA/AF scheme could be notably better with better performance and overshadow other results, since IQ is getting more weight now.
Someone could just be a lot better at marketing. It's too early to tell; the game will play out the entire generation.
Jeez, why aren't people just content to wait a few more days until we see actual benchmarks?
Ah well, business as usual... Heh.As to the other points, we'll see how they play out. ATi's playing the same game this round that nVidia was playing last round--that pushing for performance would affect more people than features. (That NV3x basically lost out on both was the main problem.
) The complaints of PS2.0 versus PS1.x will basically be the same as PS3.0 vs. PS2.0, with the roles reversed (And we don't yet know all the factors yet, such has how NV40 will run fully PS3.0 compared to PS2.0), and probably without the "hand-recoding" shaders part to fit one's architecture, as it seems both R42x and NV4x will run them fairly straight and normal, just at different capabilities.If R420 runs appreciable better on modern games, and PS3.0 doesn't get pushed or doesn't have much overall impact, then they may well gain more ground, as gamers and general users are affected by what exists more than feature. If enough games come out that show a good difference before R500 shows up, they'll have guessed wrong. If NV4x both has R42x on features and performance, we'll see a reversal of what happened this past gen.
It all depends on the marketplace. Much ado was made of PS2.0-vs-not, and a number of games were able to show it off early. Had HL2 actually shown up, things would have been even worse for nVidia and a much bigger stink made. What will go on with PS3.0 this gen? Unknown. How the marketplace moves this gen will show who guessed right. It could be ATi sacrificed features for performance and margins and ends up looking much the better, or it could be that developers really tap things like PS3.0--and if NV4x handles it well enough, it will outshine R42x. (With all the accompanying cries of "we haven't seen all of what PS2.0 offers yet," just as many say we haven't seen 1.x fully tapped either.) It could be that one or the other handles the PCI-Express transition to better results. Someone's AA/AF scheme could be notably better with better performance and overshadow other results, since IQ is getting more weight now.
Someone could just be a lot better at marketing.
It's too early to tell; the game will play out the entire generation.leukotriene
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2002
- Messages
- 2,664
VS3.0 gives vertex texturing and therefore full displacement mapping.
VS3.0 + PS3.0 = Shader Model 3.0
Yes everyone is different. I just find multiplayer getting very repetitive very soon. I just to loved playing Quake and Duke Nukem and Command & Conquer when I was younger though.
Now the only mp rushes I get is from IL 2. IL 2 on line is as intense as it can get really. But it´s much harder for a newbie to score a kill then in pick one fps multiplayer game...
I would also love to have the video card that outputs 60 fps at highest image quality settings and that of course being better IQ than todays video cards is outputting. But I can´t see that being possible really. But if you concentrate on CS 200 fps shouldn´t be impossible.
Rabid Yellow Dog
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2003
- Messages
- 153
Far Cry?
N00bs should spend more time learning and less time spewing crap. (No offense.)^^^^^
EDIT: I should really finish reading the thread before I comment.
PhyberOptik
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2000
- Messages
- 1,526
Originally posted by oqvist
No but if you are a quake gamer you shouldn´t mind image quality? If you want to play your fps games at 60 fps or more you have to make heavy sacrifices in just about every game.
I mean I would hate if we would see the graphics in games would be optimized for 60 fps at high settings instead of 30 fps. It would be like going 2 years back in time really. Eye candy is important for me and the immersion in fps games not just gameplay. A game with beautiful graphics and good gameplay is much much better than a game with average graphics and good gameplay.
That´s Oqvist
I hear what your saying, Oqvist, but I'd like to add that smooth graphics are an obsolute neccesity for immersion for most, there is nothing more distracting than jerkiness, it keeps reminding you that you're playing on a computer.
It's like those movies that sometimes split up the screen down the middle to show different scenes at once. God, I hate that, because it immediately reminds you that you're watching a movie.
D
dankstarr
Guest
Shader 3.0 is amazing, I was at the GDC this year and Meet Mark Rein the VP of Epic Games, and I got to see the real time demo of the new unreal engine 3.0, they were using a nv40 chipset card, and the graphics are AMAZING, vitural displacement mapping is the future of gaming, bar none... i have never ever seen anything so amazing as UE3.0. with far cry screenshots that use of VDM you can get a rough idea of what it can do, but it is nothing what the future holds in VDM... the machine Epic was using was 2.0Ghz AMD CPU and 1GB of 3200DDR with the nv40 gfx card and Epic said that was under the recommended specs for the engine... which they have already sold to a few companies but do not plan to release a game themselves till 2006... all that is straight from the Epic guys
Digital Viper-X-
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2000
- Messages
- 15,116
if by some odd chance this was true
I highly doubt the R420 will have worse IQ then the 9800XT which is about the same as NV40, but I don't think this is true at all
I highly doubt the R420 will have worse IQ then the 9800XT which is about the same as NV40, but I don't think this is true at all
mewannafastpc
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2003
- Messages
- 768
i don't care which brand is faster, or better IQ
i just want the faster, and better IQ one NOW!!!
i just want the faster, and better IQ one NOW!!!
Originally posted by oqvist
Which means the shader model 3 cards we should own is R500 and NV50 since these will have the power for it
Please link me where it says the NV40 doesn't have the power for SM3. Thanks.
Hellbinder
"People at [H] no longer have the ability to think
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2003
- Messages
- 50
What will be really funny is to see people like you have to backpeddle becuase R420 has better speed AND better IQ.
From the beginging It has been known that there is a bigger difference (by a mile) between FP16 and FP24 than FP24 to FP32.
Something else you are overlooking is that Nvidia will be forced once again to run everything at FP16 to try and keep up making your whole argument moot. Which it was anyway considering the serious advantage ATi is going to have in AA combine with the negligable difference between pixel shader percision.
splinter cell: pandora tomorrow, a newb can't just come in and own, especially as the spy. if you want a FPS/TPS with a learning curve and a game that brings your system to its knees, its a good choice. its the most intense MP gaming experience ive ever done.