Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Your point doesnt stand, you made a fundamental error in your formula and are trying to save face.
And... E can be used to describe voltage if it is explained as such
Otherwise V is the standard.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
R9 Nano Review Thread
- Thread starter KickAssCop
- Start date
And... E can be used to describe voltage if it is explained as such
Otherwise V is the standard.
My point doesn't stand because of a typo, but my math states the correct operation? That makes no sense.
V is not the standard. Show me in a textbook about your so-called standard? V is the unit of measure, not the symbol. Not once in my 5 years of school, my internships, or anything else has anyone ever placed anything in front of me where a formula was to be used using "V".
In fact, here is the big chart that every single EE student has in the front or back of every single textbook.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Your education needs a brush up.
Electro Motive Force (EMF) is 3 words used to define Voltage.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Look, I cant help if your education missed some thing.My point doesn't stand because of a typo, but my math states the correct operation? That makes no sense.
V is not the standard. Show me in a textbook about your so-called standard? V is the unit of measure, not the symbol. Not once in my 5 years of school, my internships, or anything else has anyone ever placed anything in front of me where a formula was to be used using "V".
In fact, here is the big chart that every single EE student has in the front or back of every single textbook.
V is the standard unit for voltage.
http://www.rapidtables.com/electric/volt.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage
I dont know how you dont know this, but your lecturers may have neglected you.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
No but you are.
Electro Motive Force is EMF = voltage,
Clearly 3 words no matter how other texts choose to write it.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
My point doesn't stand because of a typo, but my math states the correct operation? That makes no sense.
V is not the standard. Show me in a textbook about your so-called standard? V is the unit of measure, not the symbol. Not once in my 5 years of school, my internships, or anything else has anyone ever placed anything in front of me where a formula was to be used using "V".
In fact, here is the big chart that every single EE student has in the front or back of every single textbook.
v is the standard unit and measure of Voltage.
Your internship needs re-evaluating
check here
Volts(V)
http://www.rapidtables.com/electric/volt.htm
W = I x V
http://www.phy6.org/Electric/-E8-power.htm
Voltage is measured in Volts.
Of course voltage is measure in Volts. That is called a unit. Do you know the difference between a unit and a symbol? Dimensional Symbol and SI? Are these foreign things to you?
EMF (notice the big fucking letters) is electromagnetic field. emf (notice the little fucking letters) is electromotive force (E). Now, I get the confusion there. What I can't figure out is why you are insistent on stating that emf is indeed three separate words. Please enlighten me on that.
Lets break this down.
Symbol Unit of measure/value
P - Power Watt - W
I - intensité de current Amp - A
E - electromotive force Volt - V
R - resistance Ohm - Ω
There are more, many more. Such as Henry, farad, capacitance, reactance, etc... These all have a symbol that is separate from their unit of measure.
EMF (notice the big fucking letters) is electromagnetic field. emf (notice the little fucking letters) is electromotive force (E). Now, I get the confusion there. What I can't figure out is why you are insistent on stating that emf is indeed three separate words. Please enlighten me on that.
Lets break this down.
Symbol Unit of measure/value
P - Power Watt - W
I - intensité de current Amp - A
E - electromotive force Volt - V
R - resistance Ohm - Ω
There are more, many more. Such as Henry, farad, capacitance, reactance, etc... These all have a symbol that is separate from their unit of measure.
Last edited:
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
You tried to infer that Volts = Energy.
In your first post http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041857637&postcount=189
You said "P = IE P= Power or watts. I=Current or amps. E= Energy or voltage."
Energy is not = Voltage.
This is where you started to go wrong.
You tried to correct it in post 196 by saying
But you still missed the point that Power is a measurement of Energy.
Power is energy per unit time.
And it didnt correct anything you had said.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Tell him! 
Voltage is electric potential energy. In a completed circuit, voltage and energy are one in the same. When making calculations, you are making them on a completed circuit. When calculating a circuit with multiple series-parallel branches, you are calculating an energy or voltage drop across an item of resistance.
Power is not a measurement of energy. Power is a measurement of how much energy is "used" or generated.
Ok, so I'll agree to "energy per unit time". That's close enough.
Power is not a measurement of energy. Power is a measurement of how much energy is "used" or generated.
Ok, so I'll agree to "energy per unit time". That's close enough.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Your use of E in place of Voltage was incorrect, you specified Voltage = Energy.
You just made the same mistake again.
Dayaks
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2012
- Messages
- 9,773
1 watt = 1 joule/second.
energy per unit time is pretty damn accurate...
I've rarely seen volts shown as "E". Maybe it was E (V) ? Been a while... definitely haven't seen it that way since college. Now it's VAC or VDC.
energy per unit time is pretty damn accurate...
I've rarely seen volts shown as "E". Maybe it was E (V) ? Been a while... definitely haven't seen it that way since college. Now it's VAC or VDC.
Correct. When talking about a component itself, you see VAC or VDC. I'm talking about on a pure mathematical basis, that Dimensional symbols (the ones you don't like
) are the preferred notation.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Don't hate because two nerds are peen measuring over our W = V²/Ω = A²Ω skills.
Well, that's the way he'd like to write it out. I prefer P = E²/R = I²R.
If only you understood the relationship to power.
Twice at least you have got it wrong,
You stated it was equivalent to voltage in your last post
"In a completed circuit, voltage and energy are one in the same."
Now you are saying it is proportional to the square of voltage.
defaultluser
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2006
- Messages
- 14,398
E = Electric Field
V = Voltage
Never before have I seen the two different. /old-school from late 90s, so not hip to the new math
J = σE: conductivity is a function of the electric field! So you would get awfully confused if you tried to use E to describe volts.
Just a quick derivation:
R (simple resistor) = (length / cross sect area) * (1/σ
So by your equation E = IR:
E = I * (length / cross sect area) * (E/J)
That would be a whole lot more confusing if you used Volts as E.
So tell me alxlwson, bringer of the new math, how do you represent an electric field?
And please link me to whatever crazy new electric circuits book you're learning from.
V = Voltage
Never before have I seen the two different. /old-school from late 90s, so not hip to the new math
J = σE: conductivity is a function of the electric field! So you would get awfully confused if you tried to use E to describe volts.
Just a quick derivation:
R (simple resistor) = (length / cross sect area) * (1/σ
So by your equation E = IR:
E = I * (length / cross sect area) * (E/J)
That would be a whole lot more confusing if you used Volts as E.
So tell me alxlwson, bringer of the new math, how do you represent an electric field?
And please link me to whatever crazy new electric circuits book you're learning from.
Last edited:
Proportional to the square of voltage divided by resistance.
P = 120v²/100Ω = 144w.
So, lets work out a way to solve for I. We know the voltage, we know the resistance, and we know the wattage.
We know that I = P/E. So, I = 144w/120v = 1.2A.
Now that we have those numbers, we can check them using good ole P=IE. 1.2Ax120v=144w.
Pretty good understanding.
E = Electric Field
V = Voltage
Never before have I seen the two different. /old-school from late 90s, so not hip to the new math
J = σE:: conductivity is a function fo the electric field! Sso you would get awfully confused if you tried to use E to describe volts
What? Current density is directly proportional to conductivity and a given voltage. Electric field = emf, if I'm not mistaken.
Dayaks
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2012
- Messages
- 9,773
Correct. When talking about a component itself, you see VAC or VDC. I'm talking about on a pure mathematical basis, that Dimensional symbols (the ones you don't like
Not that I don't like highly technical terms... industry just doesn't use it. Confusing people and looking arrogant doesn't help. You generally want to use the globally accepted nomenclature.
Could it be E is a European (or elsewhere) type of thing? In the USA I've mainly see V, i.e. V = IR. I noticed "intensite"...
You guys might be fighting over a regional preference. Wikipedia suggests EMF and voltage are separate things at times.
Last edited:
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Nope, very bad understanding.
You have looked it up now but here are 2 quotes from you in this thread.(the first one you edited, the original is posted below, the original has 2 errors).
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041857637&postcount=189
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041857887&postcount=213
You state one thing then something else.
Voltage does not = Energy.
You just talk bollocks to try and confuse
And your first equation was wrong as quoted in post #193 and #194
you said
Power = I/E.
Not quite.
Your understanding is pretty limited.
Yeah, that was my typo. I thought we went over this already. If everyone was judged immediately on a typo, then the whole world would be screwed. If that's what you want to hang on to, so be it.
How is my math a bad understanding? You keep saying that, but I provide a very easy to understand equation that is very correct.
Dayaks, I quoted that in French because Andre Ampere was French. It's not a regional thing. It's that he doesn't understand Dimensional Symbols and how they different from the symbols for the units of measurement.
I posted the pie graph. It's in every textbook I have. Take it or leave it.
Yes, in a completed circuit, there is no more potential. It's just there. Good example. Take a small extension cord. Plug a lamp into it. Now open the wire, insert meter lead, and tape it up. Do this on the hot site of the cord. Now, open your lamp up. Place the other end of the lead on the output side of the switch. Plug extension cord in. Check it out, it shows a voltage POTENTIAL. Now, turn the lamp on. See what happens there? It shows 0. There is no voltage potential anymore because there is current flow with a near 100% voltage drop across the filament in the light bulb.
How is my math a bad understanding? You keep saying that, but I provide a very easy to understand equation that is very correct.
Dayaks, I quoted that in French because Andre Ampere was French. It's not a regional thing. It's that he doesn't understand Dimensional Symbols and how they different from the symbols for the units of measurement.
I posted the pie graph. It's in every textbook I have. Take it or leave it.
Yes, in a completed circuit, there is no more potential. It's just there. Good example. Take a small extension cord. Plug a lamp into it. Now open the wire, insert meter lead, and tape it up. Do this on the hot site of the cord. Now, open your lamp up. Place the other end of the lead on the output side of the switch. Plug extension cord in. Check it out, it shows a voltage POTENTIAL. Now, turn the lamp on. See what happens there? It shows 0. There is no voltage potential anymore because there is current flow with a near 100% voltage drop across the filament in the light bulb.
defaultluser
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2006
- Messages
- 14,398
I got interrupted, please read my entire post:
E = Electric Field
V = Voltage
Never before have I seen the two different. /old-school from late 90s, so not hip to the new math
σ = J/E: conductivity is a function of the electric field! So you would get awfully confused if you tried to use E to describe volts, since the conductivity defines the resistance!
Just a quick derivation:
R (simple resistor) = (length / cross sect area) * (1/σ
So by your equation E = IR:
E = I * (length / cross sect area) * (E/J)
That would be a whole lot LESS confusing if you used Volts as V:
V = I * (length / cross sect area) * (E/J)
So tell me alxlwson, bringer of the new math, how do you represent an electric field IN AN EQUATION?
And please link me to whatever crazy new electric circuits book you're learning from.
Last edited:
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Like I said, you talk bollocks to try and cover yourself.
Your understanding is limited, proven firstly by the 2 comments you made.
Would you like me to explain why your recent comments are incorrect and have nothing to do with your argument?
Please do tell me how I'm covering. I'm quite interested. Also, explain my lack of understanding. I'm very curious on this.
Also, please explain what bollocks are. Is that balls? It's not a term I'm very familiar with. You know, being "across the pond" and all.
This was the book we used for my intro theory: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/143548374X?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00
Why that one? Because of my focus on Controls and the industry I already work in.
As for your question... Using "E" for electric field is not standard. There is no SI unit for electric field. You posed this question, so you should know that. Electric field (E) is using a letter in place of equation N⋅C^-1.
Also, I suck ass at physics, and using E for electric field is not the same as E in relation to electronics.
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Defaultuser gave a good start.
Lets work backwards
If only that was the only problem.
You started off with 2 incorrect statements with your very first line.
Power = I / E
and Voltage is equivalent to Energy.
What you post isnt proof.
Depends on how you define it.
Would this be an Ammeter or Voltmeter?
If you intended to drop a voltmeter across a wire, you dont need to open the wire, you can attach directly to it.
I'll interpret for you to an extent.
You have placed a voltmeter across the light bulb and a switch with the switch open and the voltage is that of the power source.
You then state that when the switch is closed, the voltage becomes zero.
Sorry, it doesnt.
There is a voltage drop across the lamp almost equivalent to the original supply voltage.
I say almost because there is a tiny voltage drop in the wires and connections.
If it were an ideal power source, it would be equivalent to the original measurement.
Even at this stage you dont understand the basics, after you have had time to look it up
Would you like me to continue?
I responded to defaultuser's query. He posed a physics question. I don't do physics. I did my best to answer him.
Hanging on to the typo. Cool beans! Even though my math was correct.
Proof of what?
Nitpicking
Digital Multi-meter, set on VAC - I stated we would be measuring voltage potential. That was enough information to determine what tool I was talking about, and you know very well that is the case.
No, I didnt state that the voltage became zero. I stated the potential is now zero. There is a difference. You know, the same way a bird can stand on a HV transmission line and not be vaporized? It's all about potential. Also, I stated we were dropping across a switch, upstream from the load. Sure, could have just dropped around the switch, at the switch. My bad bro.
You're just rambling. If you want to continue, then by all means continue.
Hanging on to the typo. Cool beans! Even though my math was correct.
Proof of what?
Nitpicking
Digital Multi-meter, set on VAC - I stated we would be measuring voltage potential. That was enough information to determine what tool I was talking about, and you know very well that is the case.
No, I didnt state that the voltage became zero. I stated the potential is now zero. There is a difference. You know, the same way a bird can stand on a HV transmission line and not be vaporized? It's all about potential. Also, I stated we were dropping across a switch, upstream from the load. Sure, could have just dropped around the switch, at the switch. My bad bro.
You're just rambling. If you want to continue, then by all means continue.
Last edited:
ManofGod
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 12,863
E = Electric Field
V = Voltage
Never before have I seen the two different. /old-school from late 90s, so not hip to the new math
J = σE: conductivity is a function of the electric field! So you would get awfully confused if you tried to use E to describe volts.
Just a quick derivation:
R (simple resistor) = (length / cross sect area) * (1/σ
So by your equation E = IR:
E = I * (length / cross sect area) * (E/J)
That would be a whole lot more confusing if you used Volts as E.
So tell me alxlwson, bringer of the new math, how do you represent an electric field?
And please link me to whatever crazy new electric circuits book you're learning from.
E=I*R
Voltage = current x resistance
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
That has nothing to do with me, by all means continue
Your reading comprehension isnt too good either.
I pointed out 2 errors, the second of which you repeated another 2 times.
Your maths wasnt correct in the first place and the formula isnt correct either.
Exactly the problem, you have no idea.
Again your understanding fails you.
The Potential Difference is the voltage drop across the device.
Are you saying there is no voltage drop across the lamp when the switch is closed?
ok
Dayaks
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2012
- Messages
- 9,773
I'm really trying to stay out of this one... not sure how to respond without being insulting.
Anywho how about that nano? Makes no sense, just buy a Fury X or 980ti.
Anywho how about that nano? Makes no sense, just buy a Fury X or 980ti.
defaultluser
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2006
- Messages
- 14,398
I can accept that, so long as you tell me the way you represent an electric field in this alternate universe. I don't have your book in front of me, so it's bothering me not knowing
I already searched Google and found this, so I get that it's interchangeable. E or V, depending on your boook.
All I asked was a simple question, and nobody has had the balls to answer me!
That has nothing to do with me, by all means continue
Your reading comprehension isnt too good either.
I pointed out 2 errors, the second of which you repeated another 2 times.
Your maths wasnt correct in the first place and the formula isnt correct either.
Exactly the problem, you have no idea.
Again your understanding fails you.
The Potential Difference is the voltage drop across the device.
Are you saying there is no voltage drop across the lamp when the switch is closed?
ok
Oh no, you brought it up. Now you back away from it?
Well, how about instead of keep saying it, why not just point out my error? Link the post! Educate me!
Yup, and you don't either, apparently. You're the one making blind statements without any attempt at evidence to support. Cool story.
I think you're the one with reading comprehension issues. That's when the voltage drop happens, when the load is energized. Are you serious?
I can accept that, so long as you tell me the way you represent an electric field in this alternate universe. I don't have your book in front of me, so it's bothering me not knowing
I already searched Google and found this, so I get that it's interchangeable. E or V, depending on your boook.
All I asked was a simple question, and nobody has had the balls to answer me!
Truthfully man, I don't know. I know that it is a physics thing, and I know that in the physics world, things are done differently. I haven't studied much at all in the area that your equation poses. My only guess is to use N⋅C^-1. Thats what your E equals.
For instance, common symbol in electronics for Capacitance is C, with the unit of farad. In physics, C is for coulomb. The only time I can recall seeing N is in reference to Neutral. Physics is Newtons. It's just a different world. Symbols and units differ from area of study to area of study. I had to do some reading on the E thing for your question. Unfamiliar territory.
Last edited:
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Was there anything I needed to prove?
I just did. Why do you believe what you said is true?
Also you havent proved what you said in your first post and then repeated twice after?
How does Energy = Voltage?
Wrong way round.
Answer the above.
lol. Is that a standard scientific statement?
Yes I am serious.
Define what you mean clearly.