R600 news

im glad they kept to it and decided to do the dx10 card in time for christmas.

why do they even bother saying its the fastest dx9 card they have ever built, umm they say this everytime. it wouldnt be much of an upgrade if it wasnt
 
Netrat33 said:
ATI’s R600 to Be the Fastest DirectX 9 Chip in History – ATI
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Do they mean to say: fastest, compared to gains of the previous generations?
 
annaconda said:
Well we will see ATI claiming might go above 1GHZ , what about Nvidia?
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I missed that part about 1GHz, where did you read that? All I saw was over 650 MHz, 16 pipelines and 60 unified shaders.
 
According to the Intel forums, Conroe E6600/E6700 will be available around July 23rd.

I can't upgrade to Conroe until I have a PCI-Express graphics card....ATI/nVidia needs to hurry on the DX10 stuff so I can get a new system built.
 
BBA said:
I missed that part about 1GHz, where did you read that? All I saw was over 650 MHz, 16 pipelines and 60 unified shaders.
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16 TMU's I believe it did not say how many ROPS there will be.
 
ElMoIsEviL said:
16 TMU's I believe it did not say how many ROPS there will be.
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If it only has 16 TMU's then there's not much point having any more than 16 ROP's, unless they are anticipating new games making extremely heavy use of procedural textures. The X1900 cards are already held back by lack of sheer throughput, so unless they are making each ROP/TMU capable of processing 2 pixels/texels at a time then this looks like an achilles heel to me. Having said that, 60 shader units is only 8 more than X1900XT has (48PS + 8VS), and a unified shader is likely going to be less efficient than a dedicated unit. So the balance looks very similar to R580. Although I have no idea how it will perform, these aren't the kind of specs I hoped to see.
 
rincewind said:
If it only has 16 TMU's then there's not much point having any more than 16 ROP's, unless they are anticipating new games making extremely heavy use of procedural textures. The X1900 cards are already held back by lack of sheer throughput, so unless they are making each ROP/TMU capable of processing 2 pixels/texels at a time then this looks like an achilles heel to me. Having said that, 60 shader units is only 8 more than X1900XT has (48PS + 8VS), and a unified shader is likely going to be less efficient than a dedicated unit. So the balance looks very similar to R580. Although I have no idea how it will perform, these aren't the kind of specs I hoped to see.
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Well it's geared towards DX10 apps which do not need alot of texturing. I would assume that teh sheer clockspeed and the use of GDDR4 would boost it past any current DX9 capable card.

So ATi's statement holds true. It may be an achilles heal for DX9 apps (somewhat) but with everything moving towards DX10 it's more likely a benefit.
 
ElMoIsEviL said:
16 TMU's I believe it did not say how many ROPS there will be.
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Sorry, my number was wrong:

16 pipelines, 64 unified shaders and 650 MHz:

The code-named R600 visual processing unit may repeat the success of its grand-grand predecessor, as, according to sources familiar with the plans of ATI Technologies as well as some media reports, ATI R600 will have 64 unified shader processors – an unprecedented number so far, 16 texture units – inline with today’s GPUs, clock-speed beyond 650MHz and support for high-speed GDDR4 memory controller.
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So basically it's only a slight re-wiring of the current X1900XT shaders to make them unified instead of vertex vs pixel, along with adding a few more to make 4 unified shaders per pipeline...etc (4x16=64). This gives more flexibility in how many shaders are doing what...since any shader will be able to do any type operation.
 
Fastest DX9 in history just means..compared to everything up till now.

In other words it'll be faster than the current fastest cards now. Not exactly a surprise..nor does it tell us much..just PR speak..
 
mrbigshot said:
why do they even bother saying its the fastest dx9 card they have ever built, umm they say this everytime. it wouldnt be much of an upgrade if it wasnt
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It could lack in DX9 cause it is focusing more on DX10.

Just because a card is new, doesnt mean it will neccesarily do better in everything the last gen. did.


look at CPU's, how come sometimes an FX-60 beats an FX-62 in some tasks....
 
MrGuvernment said:
It could lack in DX9 cause it is focusing more on DX10.

Just because a card is new, doesnt mean it will neccesarily do better in everything the last gen. did.


look at CPU's, how come sometimes an FX-60 beats an FX-62 in some tasks....
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Except for the fact they said it was the fastest card ever in DX9 games, your argument would generally hold true.
 
rincewind said:
If it only has 16 TMU's then there's not much point having any more than 16 ROP's, unless they are anticipating new games making extremely heavy use of procedural textures. The X1900 cards are already held back by lack of sheer throughput, so unless they are making each ROP/TMU capable of processing 2 pixels/texels at a time then this looks like an achilles heel to me. Having said that, 60 shader units is only 8 more than X1900XT has (48PS + 8VS), and a unified shader is likely going to be less efficient than a dedicated unit. So the balance looks very similar to R580. Although I have no idea how it will perform, these aren't the kind of specs I hoped to see.
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yeah this is not what the 9700 Pro was for graphics. How about a real 512bit bus? Or 32 numbers throughout? very gay.
 
PhyberOptic said:
If they don't bring out an AGP version then I'm not particularly interested.
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It would suprise me and many other people I'm sure if they did this...

nVidia and ATi are phasing out AGP...get used to it.
 
They would move many more chips if they supported the AGP crowd too. The AGP install base is enormous. If an enterprising card maker like, say, HIS or PowerColor, slapped these GPU's on a board with that lil' AGP bridge thing, they'd be a hit.

I know they would be a hit. I would buy one, even if it were somewhat more expensive over the native PCI-E part. It would save me a lot of money having to replace my motherboard.

Aaaarrgh! I want to grab some ATI and nVidia execs by the shirtlapels and shake some sense into'em!
 
PhyberOptic said:
They would move many more chips if they supported the AGP crowd too. The AGP install base is enormous. If an enterprising card maker like, say, HIS or PowerColor, slapped these GPU's on a board with that lil' AGP bridge thing, they'd be a hit.

I know they would be a hit. I would buy one, even if it were somewhat more expensive over the native PCI-E part. It would save me a lot of money having to replace my motherboard.

Aaaarrgh! I want to grab some ATI and nVidia execs by the shirtlapels and shake some sense into'em!
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u and me both brotha, i nor my bro have upgraded to pci express yet, but being forced to soon unless there is some meeting in the middle, id pay more as well would be nice not upgrading mobo etc...
 
"the fastest card in history"
wow how insightful. 0.1% increase in performance makes it THE FASTEST CARD IN HISTORY!!!

They should also post that it's THE LATEST CARD RELEASED!!!
 
Alex41290 said:
It would suprise me and many other people I'm sure if they did this...

nVidia and ATi are phasing out AGP...get used to it.
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lol. regardless of how resilliant and powerful agp is. more then 75% of the public uses AGP. which is really 75% of ati and Nvidias target audience. My dad is still using Legacy boards... i went to fix his computer and was like
"my god dad! this is legacy! infact you still have RGB connectors for monitor at the back of your computer!"
"Jeff you may want to stay with the newest 64 bit technology whatever, but this works for me...."

anywho my point is that AGP is still big, what prooves to me that its still useful is that even SLI with 8 lanes per card (approx the speed of a high quality AGP bus) the PCI-e performance is just as good as one with 16 lanes. meaning that graphics cards cant use the full 16 lanes of pci-e, infact it could use less than or equal to eight.

and i might add, 90nm tech will hit AGP. its called the 7600 AGP. and its sposed to be here in june.
 
MrWizard6600 said:
lol. regardless of how resilliant and powerful agp is. more then 75% of the public uses AGP. which is really 75% of ati and Nvidias target audience. My dad is still using Legacy boards... i went to fix his computer and was like
"my god dad! this is legacy! infact you still have RGB connectors for monitor at the back of your computer!"
"Jeff you may want to stay with the newest 64 bit technology whatever, but this works for me...."

anywho my point is that AGP is still big, what prooves to me that its still useful is that even SLI with 8 lanes per card (approx the speed of a high quality AGP bus) the PCI-e performance is just as good as one with 16 lanes. meaning that graphics cards cant use the full 16 lanes of pci-e, infact it could use less than or equal to eight.

and i might add, 90nm tech will hit AGP. its called the 7600 AGP. and its sposed to be here in june.
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yea but i dont want no 7800gs or 7600 i want a 7900 or x1800xt or x1900xt in agp flavor :(
 
yeah this is not what the 9700 Pro was for graphics. How about a real 512bit bus? Or 32 numbers throughout? very gay.
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yea, because i'm sure they can just roll out the 512bit bus boards to us easily, i don't think we'd be happy with any performance gained off of that, since it seems GPU's are becoming far less bottle necked by memory bandwidth with each release, 256 is doing us just fine for now

They would move many more chips if they supported the AGP crowd too. The AGP install base is enormous. If an enterprising card maker like, say, HIS or PowerColor, slapped these GPU's on a board with that lil' AGP bridge thing, they'd be a hit.

I know they would be a hit. I would buy one, even if it were somewhat more expensive over the native PCI-E part. It would save me a lot of money having to replace my motherboard.

Aaaarrgh! I want to grab some ATI and nVidia execs by the shirtlapels and shake some sense into'em!
Click to expand...

they do, they just don't sell very well, theres no reason to stay AGP, you are going to pay through your nose to just pick up agp where you could spend the same amount for the PCIe upgrade and get the same speed, only in the future you'll be spending alot less

they don't need anymore sense then what they got, they are doing it just fine, if you want AGP counter parts go ahead and spend $600 on a mid range card.
 
where are you gettin $600 on a midrange AGP card? i cant find that anywhere.

the 6600GT AGP and 6600GT PCI-e are practically identical in price. everything else is like that. that manufacturing process is the same.

and i might add, soon i suspect we will be seeing gfx cards at bargin bin prices. by soon i mean a year. resellers are just gonna want them off the shelves. and when they do. ill be there.... get me some $10 6800GS'....
 
then lets compare the 7800GS to the 7900GT...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130281
7900GT - possibly one of the most popular of the 7 series, high end.
$275

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130281
7800GS - best AGP card, with stats that might surpass a 7600GT which IS current mid range, not last series mid range which is the 6600GT you mentioned.
$280

so yes you are paying for mid range performance on AGP, where you could get High End on the PCIe, the $600 was sarcasm, sorry you didn't fall for it

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130283
7600GT performance of the 7800GS

$170

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135220
decent PCIe board, change it to what ever you want

$87

Total to that upgrade, and keep the same performance? $257, CHEAPER then to stay with the "comparable" agp platform, oh yea this also gives you SLI, an option the AGP mother board would of never given you...

GL waiting on those bargin bin's, since the 6800GS is getting really hard to find, people were saying the same thing with the 7800GT, except every online retailer was able to sell off all their stock before the 7900's came not too many people got the 7800GT's for almost nothing like alot planned on.., so GL with your plan
 
Trimlock said:
then lets compare the 7800GS to the 7900GT...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130281
7900GT - possibly one of the most popular of the 7 series, high end.
$275

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130281
7800GS - best AGP card, with stats that might surpass a 7600GT which IS current mid range, not last series mid range which is the 6600GT you mentioned.
$280

so yes you are paying for mid range performance on AGP, where you could get High End on the PCIe, the $600 was sarcasm, sorry you didn't fall for it

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130283
7600GT performance of the 7800GS

$170

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135220
decent PCIe board, change it to what ever you want

$87

Total to that upgrade, and keep the same performance? $257, CHEAPER then to stay with the "comparable" agp platform, oh yea this also gives you SLI, an option the AGP mother board would of never given you...

GL waiting on those bargin bin's, since the 6800GS is getting really hard to find, people were saying the same thing with the 7800GT, except every online retailer was able to sell off all their stock before the 7900's came not too many people got the 7800GT's for almost nothing like alot planned on.., so GL with your plan
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MY ONLY REASON for staying with AGP is im on socket754, and didnt want to upgrade just yet, when i do go socket939 boards wont be a problem, ill go with either a opty165 or x2
 
MY ONLY REASON for staying with AGP is im on socket754, and didnt want to upgrade just yet, when i do go socket939 boards wont be a problem, ill go with either a opty165 or x2
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thats what i did, my main rig was a 754 A643000+, went with the opty 165 when it came out for under 350, was a good upgrade for me, what my point is though, its not a good idea to keep buying into upgrading your AGP video card if you eventually do want to get out of AGP, holding out and saving the money you would on (probably a most likely worthless upgrade) upgrading to another AGP card you could move into a faster PCIe set-up

i still have that 754 system, i still game on it, does great for my legacy games, which is pretty much all i play these days :(
 
75% of the world may still be on agp but its not part of the high end market, i agree that midrange is where its at but somthing has to be going on for such limited avalabilty. there are a lot of dells out there that people wouldnt know how to change a mobo in. i rember reading that thats where most of the 75% of agp users are located, in the prebuilt segment, i believe that the number is not as important as most think because a very large majority of those prebuilts have no reason to upgrade as they dont game.this could mean a much smaller market for agp, think around 25%-30%. also realize they want you off agp for upgradability reasons. they sooner they can get you to pci-e the sooner they can sell you the next best thing and not loose there ass on manufacturing a handfull of agp cards. perhaps this is why the good agp cards are gone as soon as they are released, why feed the masses when you can push them twords your main focus. i think this is why there is such a large push for pci-e in the last year or two.

dont worry im different than most, i went from a agp 754 to pci-e 754 to 939 pci-e to lga 775 pci-e and back to 939 pci-e and took a big step back when the kid was born and settled with a socket A and a good old agp 9800pro.


been threw
9800pro
6600gt
6800nu
6800gt
x800xt
x800pro
x800gto2
x1800xl
7800gt
7800gtx
7900gt
and finally back to a 9800pro. keep in mind this is all in the span of under 2 years. im glad im done playing the new system every 3 months game.
 
dwilson041781 said:
yea but i dont want no 7800gs or 7600 i want a 7900 or x1800xt or x1900xt in agp flavor :(
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Gainward 7800GS+ 512 MB Bliss = 7900GT core on AGP via brigdechip...

Terra...
 
i knew the AGP fans would be out in droves in this thread....OMG....AGP Users Unite!! fight the MAN!!! :rolleyes:

guys....let it go.....it's more or less over......AGP is now the redheaded stepchild of video cards......yes there are alot more AGP systems around.....they also are many running old Intel chipsets and what not, think about it, if they can't get you to buy a PCI-E card now, they will get you to buy a new mobo, memory, cpu, and vidcard later

you are only delaying the inevitable, everyday you try to hang on and sink even more money into that ageing money pit of a PC, the more you spend to stay one step behind and only delay what you know has to happen to stay in computing.......UPGRADE COMPLETELY!!!

it actually costs more to stay behind than it does to stay current, if you sell off your stuff when it's 6mos. to a year old, you will usually be able to upgrade to the newest stuff for nearly free.....i've done it over and over.....basically same amount of money has me in the most recent stuff as it would have cost me to continually upgrade the CPU here....upgrade an AGP video card there.......da da da da......by the end you have $600 in the latest AGP video card and a system that can't keep up with it.....and now the rest of the system is worth nothing because nobody wants it, but you still have $600 in it

it's what's called not sinking more money into a product that has already paid for itself.....we do it in my business all the time.....if we put a new part on a old machine, that machine now has "value" it didnt have before, and you have to run it another year just to break even....in the meantime it makes life hard on you becuase of it's age....so you hope the damn thing will last until that value is gone, so that you can replace it with a new one, it's a vicious cycle.......you just have to get out of it

ok, i'm done.....morning rant :p
 
annaconda said:
Well for those who asked me where i see R600 reaches 1ghz. Here is the link for you guys
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Dude you just quoted the Inquirer! Thats like taking News of the World Information as factual. Given that an 80nm half node transition has yet to occur (and as far as I know the chip fab TSMC has yet to push gpu 65nm tech) I think you can mark this one down as FUD.

Just remember when reading TheInq to pay note to their pages colour scheme; Yes there is a bias.
 
cyks said:
Do they mean to say: fastest, compared to gains of the previous generations?
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No they mean just what they said the fastest ever ...you know like X1900XTX and most of the prior ATI generation since the 9700Pro.

Comparing what ATI is bringing to the table to Nvidia it's going to be the 9700Pro all over again. Looks like green is'nt sheik again.
 
tim-x said:
"the fastest card in history"
wow how insightful. 0.1% increase in performance makes it THE FASTEST CARD IN HISTORY!!!

They should also post that it's THE LATEST CARD RELEASED!!!
Click to expand...


See previous post - latest is not always greatest - they didnt claim the x1900XT as the GREATEST FASTEST dx9 card ever...... or no where i saw
 
Menelmarar said:
I can't upgrade to Conroe until I have a PCI-Express graphics card....ATI/nVidia needs to hurry on the DX10 stuff so I can get a new system built.
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Well MS is planning on releasing Vista in January at the very earlist so I can see why the graphics manufacturers have no plans to release dx10 cards in the next few months.
 
MrGuvernment said:
See previous post - latest is not always greatest - they didnt claim the x1900XT as the GREATEST FASTEST dx9 card ever...... or no where i saw
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But that would be kind of dumb since the X1900XTX is :D
 
nobody_here said:
you are only delaying the inevitable, everyday you try to hang on and sink even more money into that ageing money pit of a PC, the more you spend to stay one step behind and only delay what you know has to happen to stay in computing.......UPGRADE COMPLETELY!!!

it actually costs more to stay behind than it does to stay current, if you sell off your stuff when it's 6mos. to a year old, you will usually be able to upgrade to the newest stuff for nearly free.....i've done it over and over.....basically same amount of money has me in the most recent stuff as it would have cost me to continually upgrade the CPU here....upgrade an AGP video card there.......da da da da......by the end you have $600 in the latest AGP video card and a system that can't keep up with it.....and now the rest of the system is worth nothing because nobody wants it, but you still have $600 in it

it's what's called not sinking more money into a product that has already paid for itself.....we do it in my business all the time.....if we put a new part on a old machine, that machine now has "value" it didnt have before, and you have to run it another year just to break even....in the meantime it makes life hard on you becuase of it's age....so you hope the damn thing will last until that value is gone, so that you can replace it with a new one, it's a vicious cycle.......you just have to get out of it

ok, i'm done.....morning rant :p
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good so now i have to offer my counter rant, in the afternoon :p

your arguement makes sense, cept for the part about something bothering you about its age. its not like your computer is gonna get worse and worse with time (well it will but that has nothing to do with hardware), i mean yea eventually it will crap out on you, but i know computers that have been running strong for 5,6,7 years now?. they're totally fine. you look at agp as degrading. its not. its completely stationary. its just the norm keeps moving forward, and as such it looks like stationary technology is moving backwards.

the 7800GS is expensive simply because it has a high transistor count, high nm, and consumes alot of power, all features of the same pci-e version.

my counter arguement in a nutshell: if it an't broke don't fix it.
 
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