HardOCP News
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R600 Launch Schedule?
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Kaldskryke
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April? Lots of folks are going to be sad about this news.
JediFonger
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do you think there'll be an AGP version? 
Yeah, I'm one of them. If for no other reason than to drive the prices of the current 8800's down a bit.
Commander Suzdal
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Does it somehow count in their favor that they are now specifically promising not one but two paper launches in advance? I wonder what kind of odds I could get in Vegas that "card availability" ended up being a "little late" even past the one-month delays promised here...
Meh, ATI knows they are late into the game ever since the 8800 was released in November. Im sure they have some things up there sleeves and wouldnt doubt that its probably a powerful card. Sure its a bold statement, but this is my predictament.
I wonder if they are being delayed by their DX10/Vista driver development?
So now the question is whether AMD/Ati has a DX10 card with fully functional drivers out first or if Nvidia is able to get their drivers fixed for the 8800s before then?
Does it matter? When is the first DX10 game that matters coming out? November? December?
snowysnowcones
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April = too far away
GoldenTiger
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February 20th... Supreme Commander.
I must admit, its tough to say which situation is more upsetting, the nVidia driver fiasco or the R600 Sound of Silence.
As other shave stated, the lead time is so long that nVidia will ahve a refresh product to steal ATIs thunder. I would ahv eto say, ATI = screwed for this round of the graphics war, tis going to take alot to catch up. Guess I should buy some nVidia stock options in case they retake the entire market back (computers is an extremely improtant market for NV as it is essentially a hardware design firm, less so for ATI as theya re more diversified into broader semis).
Makes you wonder if the pricetag AMD paid for ATI wasnt overly infalted, perhaps I should short AMD. Between their weakness on the Intel side and their ATI division falling on its knees, its going to be a rough patch these enxt 2 years as they struggle to catch their breath.
As other shave stated, the lead time is so long that nVidia will ahve a refresh product to steal ATIs thunder. I would ahv eto say, ATI = screwed for this round of the graphics war, tis going to take alot to catch up. Guess I should buy some nVidia stock options in case they retake the entire market back (computers is an extremely improtant market for NV as it is essentially a hardware design firm, less so for ATI as theya re more diversified into broader semis).
Makes you wonder if the pricetag AMD paid for ATI wasnt overly infalted, perhaps I should short AMD. Between their weakness on the Intel side and their ATI division falling on its knees, its going to be a rough patch these enxt 2 years as they struggle to catch their breath.
Manny Calavera
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April !??!!!!???!? LOL.....Thats it,I have been saying since day one,and now we have yet more confirmation that ATI has lost this round....
First complaint I have. How do you know ATI = screwed this round? I understand that they are indeed behind on the Direct X 10 cards. They are in no way "late" as being late means they set a date and then dont honor that date. They are just behind and with the whole buyout by AMD I can see how things might of got behind.
Second complaint I have. How do you know how powerful the R600 is? For all we know it is a beast. This may be saying alot, but we have no idea how powerful it actually is. For all we know, this card may be as powerful as Nvidia's refresh cards. Once again I realize this is a bold statement.
Third complaint I have. Sure Nvidia has a good months lead on ATI and people have been buying the 8800's. If you look around these forums, alot of people still havnt adopted to the 8800's. Alot of people dont even care about DX 10 yet as Vista just came out, and what the bugs work out. There arnt going to be many games supporting DX10 also. Hell, DX9 is just becoming mainstream. Most of the people want a price drop on current 8800's and more choices to choose from in the DX10 market.
Im not supporting ATI in any way, im just getting tired of these posts as we no idea what the CONFIRMED spec are, how powerful this card may end up being, and what the card has feature wise.
JediFonger
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the only good things about new cards coming out is lower prices in the r500 series that people will upgrade to FROM r300 series.
it's the same when 8800 (g8) came out. people are upgrading from g4,g5 to g8.
it's just $/performance. i think gamers are just smart enough (now) that going 2 generations can yield a greater performance gap... but going from one gen to the next won't give you a huge-arse performance right away and it'll just cost you an arm+leg to begin with anyway. i think they're spending their $ on bigger HDTV displays and/or other components of the PC.
it's the same when 8800 (g8) came out. people are upgrading from g4,g5 to g8.
it's just $/performance. i think gamers are just smart enough (now) that going 2 generations can yield a greater performance gap... but going from one gen to the next won't give you a huge-arse performance right away and it'll just cost you an arm+leg to begin with anyway. i think they're spending their $ on bigger HDTV displays and/or other components of the PC.
GoldenTiger
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the only good things about new cards coming out is lower prices in the r500 series that people will upgrade to FROM r300 series.
it's the same when 8800 (g8) came out. people are upgrading from g4,g5 to g8.
it's just $/performance. i think gamers are just smart enough (now) that going 2 generations can yield a greater performance gap... but going from one gen to the next won't give you a huge-arse performance right away and it'll just cost you an arm+leg to begin with anyway. i think they're spending their $ on bigger HDTV displays and/or other components of the PC.
I dunno about that, I call doubling or more the performance of the previous generation a "huge-arse performance" boost
! I see what you mean in absolute terms, though , in that it won't be an OMG THIS LOOKS SO REAL boost.^^What he said^^
This is why I'm waiting to build with Vista later rather then sooner.
There is no hurry.
Reasons
1) No drivers for any DX10 cards
2) No competition between DX10 cards
3) No games for a while
4) Vista driver support lacking in some areas like printers & Itunes
5) Wndows XP does what I need it to do already
6) New hardware or memory upgrade needed for Vista
When these are satisfied I'm ready to go.
There is no hurry.
Reasons
1) No drivers for any DX10 cards
2) No competition between DX10 cards
3) No games for a while
4) Vista driver support lacking in some areas like printers & Itunes
5) Wndows XP does what I need it to do already
6) New hardware or memory upgrade needed for Vista
When these are satisfied I'm ready to go.
JediFonger
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8800 doubles the performance of 7900 serie?
I dunno about that, I call doubling or more the performance of the previous generation a "huge-arse performance" boost
ATI is screwed this round b/c when their flagship R600 hits the shelves, NV will likely ahve a resfresh ready. The 8800 has been around long enough that NV should eb able to easily launch a refresh by May; you realize how long its been on shelves?
So ATI will recap the crown - for a day. This is a really bad situation to be in imo; I think most people across most computer enthsuaist forums agree on this point of the delay being so long, NV will likely be close to a refresh.
Will ATI go under? I dont think so and I certainly hope not (hell I run an ATI card atm on my main rig). THey are doing well in other areas.
That being said, not likely to be a year of good results.
THE BEST situation that ATI can do is be so powerful that NV has to wait a little longer for the refresh to tune it to trump ATIs offering. In short, the options Go Bust, Break Even (with a superior product that will hold its own weight for a few months), or somewhere in between.
Since there doesnt seem to be a way to Win this round, yeah its basically a gimmee. Mind you, more competition is good for us so its not goo dlong term for consumers if ATI totally screws up this bad. Voodoo days sucked imo.
The 8800 does a good enough job on DX9 so as to end up the more pwoerful card; DX10 being a bonus at this point. But you make the point that with a NV refresh will likely come support for mid range cards and a new high end means the current 8800 is no longer top dog = cheaper prices. This is not a healthy situation to be launching R600 from.
Anyways, I hope Im wrong and ATI pulls a rabbit out of a hat. More choice = better for us all around; I just dont think tis gonna be that way.
I do hope NV gets that refresh out soon, I need to upgrade (badly too) and I think buying into R600 without waiting for NVs counter would be counterproductive at this stage.
So ATI will recap the crown - for a day. This is a really bad situation to be in imo; I think most people across most computer enthsuaist forums agree on this point of the delay being so long, NV will likely be close to a refresh.
Will ATI go under? I dont think so and I certainly hope not (hell I run an ATI card atm on my main rig). THey are doing well in other areas.
That being said, not likely to be a year of good results.
THE BEST situation that ATI can do is be so powerful that NV has to wait a little longer for the refresh to tune it to trump ATIs offering. In short, the options Go Bust, Break Even (with a superior product that will hold its own weight for a few months), or somewhere in between.
Since there doesnt seem to be a way to Win this round, yeah its basically a gimmee. Mind you, more competition is good for us so its not goo dlong term for consumers if ATI totally screws up this bad. Voodoo days sucked imo.
The 8800 does a good enough job on DX9 so as to end up the more pwoerful card; DX10 being a bonus at this point. But you make the point that with a NV refresh will likely come support for mid range cards and a new high end means the current 8800 is no longer top dog = cheaper prices. This is not a healthy situation to be launching R600 from.
Anyways, I hope Im wrong and ATI pulls a rabbit out of a hat. More choice = better for us all around; I just dont think tis gonna be that way.
I do hope NV gets that refresh out soon, I need to upgrade (badly too) and I think buying into R600 without waiting for NVs counter would be counterproductive at this stage.
GoldenTiger
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1) What? I'm typing and gaming on them right now (8800GTS)
!2) So what? It's had a several month advantage, you could have been enjoying it for that time like the rest of us instead of waiting... and waiting... and waiting... and...
3) Basically all XP games work fine, and there's new ones coming within a few weeks!
4) Very few, and if your printer is 10 years old and thus doesn't have a driver, they're not expensive to replace or just use on a different computer anyway. Itunes? That's hardly a PC killer app that most people use.
5) Good point, one that everyone always makes before they switch.
6) Not unless your computer's already aging and in need of an upgrade.
GoldenTiger
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CyberDeus-RagDoll
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So what if ati is "late" releasing the r600s..
I have a sneaking suspicion that when they do come out, they'll be the first FULLY WORKING dx10 + vista solution. nvidia had 14 months to make 8800 work correctly on vista.
How is another 3 months going to help nvidia be 'ahead'
At least ati cards work correctly in vista.
I have a sneaking suspicion that when they do come out, they'll be the first FULLY WORKING dx10 + vista solution. nvidia had 14 months to make 8800 work correctly on vista.
How is another 3 months going to help nvidia be 'ahead'
At least ati cards work correctly in vista.
GoldenTiger
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The 8800 series *already* has a fully working driver with SLI in Vista.
Nvidia doesn't have a fully working Vista driver yet, w/their 8800 series, so how are they really ahead of ATI?
New card, yes, supported card, no.
.
GoldenTiger
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Fully working? They sure are, other than unsupported non-official overclocking.
GoldenTiger
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Actually, yes they do support SLI, and they are official beta releases. What more do you want? Just because it's labelled "beta" doesn't mean it doesn't work.
I stand corrected about the SLI support. I just read that it supports SLI, w/both the 6/7/8 series of cards, w/DX9, as well as the 8800 series, w/DX10.
It is still Beta, which means there is something not fully supported yet.
.
AaronP
[H]F Junkie
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April? Jesus it better whipe the floor with my G80.
Have ATI even given any official dates yet?
All we have so far is "Fud" and a load of speculation......
My last ATI card (X1900XT) arrived a day before it was officially released, maybe after its announced by ATI and then no cards appear for months can we all cry "paper launch"
All we have so far is "Fud" and a load of speculation......
My last ATI card (X1900XT) arrived a day before it was officially released, maybe after its announced by ATI and then no cards appear for months can we all cry "paper launch"
MrWizard6600
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shier numbers state that it could.
They may or may not have a refreash, my bet is on NV having a driver release ready for the R600. The performance of the 8 series right now is decimal to what the numbers say its capible of. If this is all the performance we're left with, i would be pretty dissapointed.
If by refreash you mean die shrink, then... maabey, probibly not. Maybe NV will release an 8800 Ultra but, I still fear anything with the ultra name ever since the 6800 Ultra, which was terribad.
no, not for a day, I'm betting something close to a tie, but whatever, price makes any arguement mute, who will take the crown for the majority of the time until the next launch? my bet is ATI--er AMD.
they are doing well in THIS area. The RD580 is imho, a better core then the G71. And it takes more then one flop to cause a multi million company like ATI to go under.
--which is also mute as it will take several HUUUGEE flops to cause a company like AMD to go under.
naw. If ATi takes the crown, which i suspect they will, then NV will be pressured to release an 8900, but should it simply be a die shrink of the 8800, ill be really pissed off, as (once again) Nvidia has left themselves with not enough marketing head room. and they will have to start nine series on nothing more then a few more SPs, or perhalps a 65 of 45 nm process.
you lost me
oh i get it, yeah. well. blegh, the midrange cards have been half announced, VR zone got ahold of some numbers a week ago, see for yourself here. Again, another word for GPU review.com, run by this sites very own CF eclipse, as i understand it. Its an amazing site, just check out the compare cards feature. that alone makes me more educated at suggesting a graphics card then everyone in the city of vancouver.
we can agree to disagree, maybe: the R600 will be no slouch.
1) What? I'm typing and gaming on them right now (8800GTS)
2) So what? It's had a several month advantage, you could have been enjoying it for that time like the rest of us instead of waiting... and waiting... and waiting... and...
3) Basically all XP games work fine, and there's new ones coming within a few weeks!
4) Very few, and if your printer is 10 years old and thus doesn't have a driver, they're not expensive to replace or just use on a different computer anyway. Itunes? That's hardly a PC killer app that most people use.
5) Good point, one that everyone always makes before they switch.
6) Not unless your computer's already aging and in need of an upgrade.
Some further pints to be made, to each his own
1) DX 10 games I think not.
2) You will wait as long as I do to play these games most of the other features
like updates to Explorer and Media Center can be updated in XP
3) No debate there, I was pointing to DX10 games only
4) Printer is 3 years old and a generic driver would be fine, but Vista does not
have one
5) Personal choice nothing else
6) Main computer is aging cost is an issue, read my sig
Nice try, it's not launching with DX10 support. They hope to have a patch out within a month. I have my doubts about how much impact a quickly assembled patch will have on the game.