R600 is now on sale for we.pcinlife.com

Maybe its just me, but I dont' see anything wrong with his comment. The mans entitled to his opinion and I don't see why somebody would instantly take a pre-eval comment about some doubt about the card as "This card is a P.O.S. and stay away from it. Go buy a 8800GTX instead.". He did not make such a comment.

I would hope that most people on this forum have a high enough IQ to know the difference between a review and a gut feeling.
 
Hey guys relax!

I've been reading Kyle's articles for years now, and all I have to say is that I am still reading them because Kyle = Integrity. His opinion was there all these years as a valuable guide for my purchases all the time. He never failed me, not even once.Kyle's comment on R600 was just his personal opinion, he has the right to expess it.

My native language is Greek, not English and I never misunderstood Kyle's comment. Just be glad there are people like him so we can enjoy perfect reviews and superb articles.
 
|CR|Constantine said:
However, I hope you do agree that a person with your influence making a comment that the R600 smells like a total failure without the benefit of testing, is a bit over the top.
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No, I don't agree with you at all as I base my comments and opinions based on what I have been told by people in the industry who I trust to know what they are talking about. I have reason to fully believe the information I have is correct, yet I do frame it as opinion. By your logic, people should only share their opinion if they are uninformed and do not have any "clout" in the industry. You sir are just silly in your thoughts about me sharing my opinions.

And yes, if the top end card is actually 250w per card as I am reading on these ATI R600 spec sheets on my desktop, well then I do smell failure for the part. And if the lower end comes in at 150w as is shown on the spec sheets I have, I smell failure for those parts as well. Thermals are way too important in this industry. Look what 150w did to Intel...
 
pooky(1) said:
Hey guys relax!

I've been reading Kyle's articles for years now, and all I have to say is that I am still reading them because Kyle = Integrity. His opinion was there all these years as a valuable guide for my purchases all the time. He never failed me, not even once.Kyle's comment on R600 was just his personal opinion, he has the right to expess it.

My native language is Greek, not English and I never misunderstood Kyle's comment. Just be glad there are people like him so we can enjoy perfect reviews and superb articles.
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Thanks for the support. And do remember that we will have a full evaluation posted on the front page of HardOCP as our official stance on the card at launch.
 
With the blower rated at up to 2A@12V that thing could probably move some serious air running at full speed. Bet if would make a heck of a noise too.
 
lassiterb said:
With the blower rated at up to 2A@12V that thing could probably move some serious air running at full speed. Bet if would make a heck of a noise too.
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24 watts for a fan is just plain ridiculous. If that thing actually needs that much fan power to cool it, then I'd have to agree with Kyle.
 
lassiterb said:
With the blower rated at up to 2A@12V that thing could probably move some serious air running at full speed. Bet if would make a heck of a noise too.
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Well, could be just the opposite. My 8800 GTS has a really huge stock cooler with an enormous fan. When I bought it I was thinking of getting some earplugs too, but that fear went away the fist time I pushed the card to it's limits (Call me Oblivion). Note the heat pipes. My personal opinion is that the fan will be quiet enough.

Have in mind that we are talking about an OEM version, OEMs do not want negative feedback because of noisy rigs.
 
keep seeing people defend this card saying the retail is shorter

you guys might want to post pictures of the retail then
 
its simple.. that cooler without the handle, and the carditself with no cooler shows how shorter it is as retail
 
ShadowVlican said:
keep seeing people defend this card saying the retail is shorter; you guys might want to post pictures of the retail then
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Why is it difficult to believe that a retail version will be shorter? So many are complaining about the length of this card when official photos of a retail version haven't even been seen yet.

Seriously, to all you folks who are genuinely concerned that this is the retail version, do you honestly believe for a second that AMD/ATI would release a maximum-length card when the vast majority of the consumers it's aimed at don't even own server cases that can physically accommodate such a beast?

Come on guys, common sense dictates it would be marketing suicide to say the least. Expect retail versions to be of standard size.
 
Well I thought I'd jump in here.

I do agree with Kyle. 240 watts is simply too much. The only people its going to appeal to is top end enthusiasts who can supply sufficient enough cooling and wouldnt mind the noise (24watt fan? Come on.. that has to be loud). CF configurations of these would be absurd to imagine at this point. Maybe the R650 will change that, but right now its just silly.

Try to imagine the heat that would be created and power that would be sucked from a current Quad FX platform with two of these cards. The very thought is absurd to me becuase both products are owned by the same people. They want to bake a chicken in that computer case or something?

Heck, I'm going 8600GTS over the 8800GTS just for the fact that it wont generate as much heat (along with some other minor issues like single slot). From my current perspective without seeing any strong numbers on the RV630 and RV610, I could easily say I'm done with ATI.

The only saving grace may be the price if its actually that much lower than current NV cards, and thats little more than a rumor at this point.
 
Neist said:
Well I thought I'd jump in here.

Try to imagine the heat that would be created and power that would be sucked from a current Quad FX platform with two of these cards. The very thought is absurd to me becuase both products are owned by the same people. They want to bake a chicken in that computer case or something?
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I agree that its a lot of power, however it vents it out side of the case (dual slot) so I think your chicken baking will have to be behind the case.
 
Exavior said:
Maybe its just me, but I dont' see anything wrong with his comment. The mans entitled to his opinion and I don't see why somebody would instantly take a pre-eval comment about some doubt about the card as "This card is a P.O.S. and stay away from it. Go buy a 8800GTX instead.". He did not make such a comment.

I would hope that most people on this forum have a high enough IQ to know the difference between a review and a gut feeling.
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Constantine, I see where your coming from but please read Xavior's post. He really makes a lot of sense, common sense. The phrase "something smells like a failure" can be interpreted as nothing more than conjecture, an educated guess, or a gut feeling as Xavior said. Also as far as Kyle's opinion goes, I respect his opinions as much as any other forum member does, but I I'm not going to base my purchasing decisions on conjecture or educated guesses. I'll wait as any sensible person would do until Kyle has one in his hands and is physically testing the thing. So, take a step back and read Xaviors post afew times, it better than mine.
 
I have to ask, Kyle did you post same kinda "this is going to be a failure" stuff about Nvidia FX5800 cards before they were released? Just curious if your crystall ball predictions are neutral in this matter.

Also you should consider some stuff before posting it on front page. That card is clearly ment for OEM machines and you put it on the front page!? If that does not give the wrong picture to average customer I dont know what does :confused: :confused:
 
nunyabiz said:
I agree that its a lot of power, however it vents it out side of the case (dual slot) so I think your chicken baking will have to be behind the case.
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Touche. ;)

At any rate, I dont think I'd use one unless I was on watercooling. Air cooling options would have to be horribly loud to be sufficient.
 
sam0t said:
I have to ask, Kyle did you post same kinda "this is going to be a failure" stuff about Nvidia FX5800 cards before they were released? Just curious if your crystall ball predictions are neutral in this matter.

FFS clearly that card is OEM and your putting the pics on fron page of your site! If that does not give the wrong picture to average customer what does :confused: :confused:
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I believe it was largely the FX series that inspired [H] to part ways from the traditional method of reviewing new video cards. Therefore, it may be that the FX5800 is partly responsible for the insight that is part of Kyle's opinion. Kyle is certainly not the fist person to suggest that R600 will be a fiasco, and he is certainly not the only person to hold that opinion.
 
sam0t said:
I have to ask, Kyle did you post same kinda "this is going to be a failure" stuff about Nvidia FX5800 cards before they were released? Just curious if your crystal ball predictions are neutral in this matter.

Also you should consider some stuff before posting it on front page. That card is clearly meant for OEM machines and you put it on the front page!? If that does not give the wrong picture to average customer I don't know what does :confused: :confused:
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No, I did not predict that. Maybe I have gotten a bit more knowledgeable in the last 4 YEARS? Who knows.

On the 5800:

As we’ve seen, the GeForce FX is no slouch in the 3D accelerator world, however it is not the "9700-killer" many have expected. It is, at best, mildly faster in most games, and the same or slightly worse in a few. Had it arrived when most of us thought it should, there is no doubt it would be much better received.

The Bottom Line: The GeForceFX 5800 Ultra is a very hot and noisy beast that may give you a bit of an edge over the current king of the hill, the ATI 9700 Pro in some applications. If you are an NVIDIA fan b o y this of course has your name all over it. At the current US$400.00 price point, the GFFX simply does not seem worth it to us. If NVIDIA can work some driver magic and pull an extra 20% increase in frame rate out of the bag like we have seen in the past, they had best start pulling. Either that or pull out the NV35 chipset, and quick.
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I dunno about you, but I think there are a lot of similarities. Dunno why you are confused.

I consider everything before I put it on the front page. Please point out what I said in error and I will correct it immediately.
 
Mark_Warner said:
I believe it was largely the FX series that inspired [H] to part ways from the traditional method of reviewing new video cards. Therefore, it may be that the FX5800 is partly responsible for the insight that is part of Kyle's opinion. Kyle is certainly not the fist person to suggest that R600 will be a fiasco, and he is certainly not the only person to hold that opinion.
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Ok cool did not know that FX series did put the new reviewing method into motion and ofcourse I do not disagree about the issue with Kyle, R600 might well be a fiasco. But somehow my judgement says that Kyle should post these kinda comment under different forum alias. Maybe its my Scandinavian thinking or something, but reading Kyles comments gave me very mixed feeling about him as a reviewer.
 
zeekle said:
I agree. ATI not having an answer to the 8800 has kept them (8800) expensive....
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That and the die being as big as a $5 postage stamp. I saw Jensen hold up a wafer at the 8800 launch, and I was few tables back, and I could EASILY MAKE OUT the die structures on the wafer. Wow, that thing is huge. :eek:

The 8800 would have made them a LOT more money if they could have gotten to 65nm with the 8800, but as mentioned earlier, that is panning out to be a bit more of a challenge than shrinks in the past...just ask AMD. ;)

But yes, if the top end R600 comes in at $399 it has to put some kind of heat on NVIDIA's pricing IF....and only IF....there is sufficient quantity of R600 on the shelves to fill the demand, if any. If they launch with 5 to sell, it will likely have no impact on NV pricing. Obviously the 8800 Ultra is coming and that will certainly play into the mix as well.
 
IMO, this is just gonna be another "edges out the previous high performer slightly" card that is gonna get edged out itself with an Nvidia refresh. ALways happens. Also, DAAMIT is going to make Nvidia lower their prices on their high end as well as push mid range sales. This, in the end, is beneficial for all of us.

On a side note, that monster better wake up and cook me breakfast in the morning as well as rip into games, for what it's gonna make cough up.
 
belmicah said:
IMO, this is just gonna be another "edges out the previous high performer slightly" card that is gonna get edged out itself with an Nvidia refresh. ALways happens. Also, DAAMIT is going to make Nvidia lower their prices on their high end as well as push mid range sales. This, in the end, is beneficial for all of us.

On a side note, that monster better wake up and cook me breakfast in the morning as well as rip into games, for what it's gonna make cough up.
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I will say it again, I think this will be ATI's 5800. Even if you take the fan out of the equation. The power reqs will even that out even if it is quiet at load.
 
And trust me, I am awaiting Brent's evaluation as much as you are. :)
 
I love when other people cry wolf and say "well were looking at the oem card the retail will be shorter" yes it will becasue it won't have a massive handle on it, but also think of it this way, It unlikely that there will be different TDP levels for the oem vs retail cards, if their was then that would be a first for gpu's (taking a guess there??) Power wise i think they will be the same oem or retail

I think by now most people (with the exception of the ati !!!!!!s) have realized this card is going to be rather power hungry, and would be quite a shame if it could only edge out the 8800 cards while drawing tons of power.

I just can't wait for it to come out so all this damn speculation can come to rest;)
 
InorganicMatter said:
Something isn't adding up here. The card consumes 240w, and only performs as good as an 8800GTX, which of course is going to mean most of the input energy is dissipated as heat. So why are these preliminary reviews saying temps are fine and the fan is silent.

Very, very fishy if you ask me.
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ALL of the input energy to a PC is dissipated as heat, no matter how well it performs. Just a FYI.

Temps are fine and fan is silent probably b/c 240 is a peak watt measurement and the fan is well balanced with a HUGE heatsink.
 
I guess the counter Hype is welcome at this point. In the worst case scenario, the dissapointment wont be so big :)

The only thing that irritates me about these R600 rumours is that nobody seems to know if that huge R600 card in the latest pics is the OEM version or not. Logic dictates ( ;) ) that its indeed the OEM with the handle and all but can anybody prove it either way :confused:
 
sam0t said:
Also you should consider some stuff before posting it on front page. That card is clearly ment for OEM machines and you put it on the front page!? If that does not give the wrong picture to average customer I dont know what does :confused: :confused:
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He smells failure, I smell bias.
 
What everyone fails to realize is that ATI already failed this generation by yielding the market to NV and the G80 for so long. they lost lots of money and now that they have waited the second they release the R600 Nvidias going to say eat shit heres our 8800Ultra.

Either way no matter how good the R600 is it will sell like shit because everyone that had the cash already spent it on the G80 (There are obviously exceptions to this but the idea is the same) and on top of that the NV refreshes are set to follow right behind R600.

This is a bad time for the consumer not just ATI folks without proper competition prices will stay where they are.

Personally i dont like how its looking for AMD/ATI on both fronts weak answer for the G80 for ATI and no answer for the core 2. I really hope they have something really serious planned or i see Intel and Nvidia reigning unchallenged for a long time.
 
sam0t said:
I guess the counter Hype is welcome at this point. In the worst case scenario, the dissapointment wont be so big :)

The only thing that irritates me about these R600 rumours is that nobody seems to know if that huge R600 card in the latest pics is the OEM version or not. Logic dictates ( ;) ) that its indeed the OEM with the handle and all but can anybody prove it either way :confused:
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Just to be clear, none of my predictions are based on card length. I really could care less as it does not impact the big picture of the R600. There are hurdles for it way before the length of the card comes into question.
 
Al Shades said:
He smells failure, I smell bias.
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I suggest you get to an ENT Dr. immediately. What you are smelling is your own made up BS based on no true industry information. I mean really, who do you think gets better information, me or you? And if you are better informed, please reply with some reasoning, not some misplaced "he's biased" cop-out argument fit for a 5th grader.
 
You're not allowed to have your own opinions, Kyle. You should know that by now :)
 
You guys smell a lot of funny things...

I smell the R600 OEM replacing the xbox as the new big...

Thank god retail versions are going to be shorter.
 
I haven't been following hardware for very long, and only very seriously in the last 6 months I'd say. Is there always this much hullabaloo with every new generation of card? Or is it simply because it really seems like ATI has dropped the ball with their first generation dx10 card?
 
RAA-Kr1cH said:
I haven't been following hardware for very long, and only very seriously in the last 6 months I'd say. Is there always this much hullabaloo with every new generation of card? Or is it simply because it really seems like ATI has dropped the ball with their first generation dx10 card?
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This is normal....... sit back and enjoy.
Want some popcorn?
 
After much lurking around the internet and learning what I can, I've turned into a huge hard fan, and I don't find anything unethical, untoward, or wrong about what Kyle said here. If I didn't want passionate and informed reviews from knowledgeable people who pull no punches, I wouldn't be on Kyle's site.

Also this is the first time I've witnessed new card competition frenzy

/pass the popcorn.
 
Oh believe me, I have been. I'm a true testament to ATI dropping the ball. I've never really been too biased toward one brand or the other. I loved my 9800pro, but it was getting old. I just recently built a new machine, and I'm runnin 8800GTS in SLI, and lovin it. But to be honest, if ATI had a better card out for the same price I would have bought it instead.

Now I just enjoy watching all the ATI followers getting their panties in a bunch about R600 comments.
 
BTW, I dont think it matters if ATI is late anymore.

Certainly hasn't hurt them in any tangible way being almost six months late here. I guess they can be late indefinitly now and it not have any real effect. Nvidia has become really punchless. It's almost like they settle for second best now, and everybody just waits for the ATI card to come out.
 
Sharky974 said:
Regardless, we know your review will run a bunch of Fud benchmarks and declare it a failure.

It doesn't matter if it's 50% faster than G80 by other reviews, your review will ascertain that there's no "real world" difference. Whatever that means.

Your reviews are completely useless at this point.
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Have you even read a [H] hardware evaluation?

[H]'s real world focus on their benchmarks are the only reliable source of performance information on the interweb. Any canned benchmark can claim a high score, but is that going to translate into a better experience? Will I be able to run with a higher resolution than my current card? More AA? More AF? Higher IQ? How's the noise? How much heat does it output? How much power does it require?

If you don't understand what a real world difference is, you should probably stop visiting [H] altogether.
 
250 watts... 24 volt fan?

God I hope that's not true. If it is, then I agree with Kyle here, that this is going to be their FX5800.
 
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