R600 - 610 - 630 Question on HDMI Audio

[whrswoldo]

Which is exactly what I said; why are you trying to ague with?

I wasn't trying to argue with you, just pointing out that you would need 4 SPDIF connections to do what you can with 1 HDMI cable so it's not merely a cable clutter problem.

Couldn't you think they could actually send sound processing internally through drivers and what not, and pass it through the HDMI? Just a question. I'm not too savy on the audio stuff. I mean, this way you're not outputting anything that isn't supported on your audiocard. In essent, it'd be like a pass-through.

You're right, you can just pass the audio through, however SPDIF is limited to 2 channels of lossless pass-through (PCM).

 

[Willseyvilleny]

pretty stoked about this setup becuase now when you hook your pc up to your tv you dont need a ball of cables. Any person with a tv that has hdmi should have a home theater system hooked up to it. If your home theater is hooked up correctly for surround sound with your tv's rca or optical out all you need is to hook up your hdmi and your done in full surround sound with perfect quality video. This way you dont need those headphone to rca adapters and all sorts of crap. I for one will be getting an hdmi based r600

 

[mdk30]

If I understand this correctly, and I could use an R600 based card to output HDMI video AND 5.1 audio from any media/game on my PC, and feed that into my HDMI capable receiver, which then feeds my 5.1 Klipsch system, and my projector... then yes, I would be very interested in that kind of functionality. It would make PC gaming with my home theater system very simple and compelling.

 

[Daarken]

I hate to say it, but this is going to be the future of video connections.
VGA style outputs where used for decades before DVI came out, and now all new video cards use this format either in a total or mixed output format. With the release of HDMI, which provides digital audio along with the video signal, this produces a more unified multimedia platform for display manufacturers to follow. The main display vendors started to provide HDMI based display systems last year, and have even moved into the 2nd generation of these displays.
I would not be surprised to see future video and audio cards alogn with future motherboards that have onboard connections that allow internal multimedia communication to HDMI enabled devices. I also suspect that in the next year or less, you see a dedicated PCI-E Card that allows for the loop-back connection of audio and video with an upscaler that provides an HDMI output.

 

[Catboxer]

I like the idea, I plan to run a setup where everything is upconverted to 1080i and output via 1 HDMI to the TV. The TV would then deinterlace to 1080p.

My question is, how well will these sub R600 cards drive a 1080 resolution for gaming? What kind of frame rates can I hope to get in games like Oblivion? I guess I'm getting ahead of the game and need to wait for their benchmarks. The R600 is not something you can throw in a small form factor HTPC, so hopefully the more "budget" cards with perform adequately.

Production costs incurred aside, options that enable flexibility are never a bad thing.

 

[G'ßöö]

is hdmi better than optical? damn this gets confusing/expensive if you want to use 2 devices at the best quality possible. so if I understand this right, for two devices, ensure your tv has multiple hdmi for all video in, then use optical to the receiver? quickly looking, receivers with 1 let alone 2 hdmi are way too pricey so that solution is out for me ...hdmi better not be better than an optical in the mix cause I dont see how to hook a ps3 to a receiver and the tv only with hdmi since the ps3 only has one hdmi ...there lies my answer on a gpu with hdmi

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

is hdmi better than optical? damn this gets confusing/expensive if you want to use 2 devices at the best quality possible. so if I understand this right, for two devices, ensure your tv has multiple hdmi for all video in, then use optical to the receiver? quickly looking, receivers with 1 let alone 2 hdmi are way too pricey so that solution is out for me ...hdmi better not be better than an optical in the mix cause I dont see how to hook a ps3 to a receiver and the tv only with hdmi since the ps3 only has one hdmi ...there lies my answer on a gpu with hdmi

there are some affordable recievers that will take 2 HDMI inputs and output 1 HDMI to your TV

 

[nilepez]

Well, I'm not running that setup currently because HDMI cables are too expensive

FYI, HDMI cables are not expensive, so long as you mail order them from monoprice.com

If you buy it at a local store (any local store), then you'll have to bend over. For most people, the cheapest monoprice cables are fine and they run around 5 bucks for 3'.....under 20 for 15 or 20' (don't recall the exact longest lenght for the cheap ones).

To summarize, you don't have to take a Louisville Slugger up the a$$ to get a quality HDMI cable, but most people do.

Of course it won't matter until you get a receiver (though I recommend ordering your cables a day or 2 before you order your receiver, or you might be tempted to bend over )

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

FYI, HDMI cables are not expensive, so long as you mail order them from monoprice.com

If you buy it at a local store (any local store), then you'll have to bend over. For most people, the cheapest monoprice cables are fine and they run around 5 bucks for 3'.....under 20 for 15 or 20' (don't recall the exact longest lenght for the cheap ones).

To summarize, you don't have to take a Louisville Slugger up the a$$ to get a quality HDMI cable, but most people do.

Of course it won't matter until you get a receiver (though I recommend ordering your cables a day or 2 before you order your receiver, or you might be tempted to bend over )

Yea local stores are a rip, but I base my price off of what the average consumer is going to get, I order alot of stuff online but never anythign for my HT setup, I figured hDMI would come down by the time I'm ready to get into it.

 

[Moofasa~]

This is a big deal!

I know the compliant (I'm part of this group) with digital output on the PC (ie: S/PDIF out) is that it only supports stereo uncompressed. As you all know, multichannel audio is only supported through lossy codecs (ac3/dd and dts). The lossy codecs obviously have a negative effect on sound quality (not to mention DDL/DTS:C is limited to only 16bit/48kHz). But with HDMI output, we can now digitally output 7.1 uncompressed (and up to 24bit/192kHz too) to our receivers. Not a bad deal (since it's basically free with our video card, even the cheaper ones)!

 

[Relentence]

I don't know about this specific card, but I believe HDMI will solve a serious problem for the gamer.

Right now, with traditional audio options, the only way to connect a PC to an audio system and play a game in 5.1 is by connecting 6 analog cables to the audio system. SPDIF does not support more than two channels, so if the gamer wants to send a digital signal to the audio system, he is either looking at using proprietary speakers (like Creative Labs) or getting a sound card that does Dolby Digital Live (and dealing with the negatives of that solution.)

Once HDMI support becomes more common, 5.1 gaming in digital will be as easy as running an HDMI cable.

 

[CrimandEvil]

I don't know about this specific card, but I believe HDMI will solve a serious problem for the gamer.

Right now, with traditional audio options, the only way to connect a PC to an audio system and play a game in 5.1 is by connecting 6 analog cables to the audio system. SPDIF does not support more than two channels, so if the gamer wants to send a digital signal to the audio system, he is either looking at using proprietary speakers (like Creative Labs) or getting a sound card that does Dolby Digital Live (and dealing with the negatives of that solution.)

Once HDMI support becomes more common, 5.1 gaming in digital will be as easy as running an HDMI cable.

Uh, the problem with gaming and audio is pretty much only if you are using a Creative sound card. Using a DDL card isn't that big of a deal like you're making it out to sound like; using HDMI (audio) out isn't going to be much different then using onboard sound.

Now, if all games were to support DD/DTS 5.1 audio then this wouldn't even be an issue at all.

 

[G'ßöö]

there are some affordable recievers that will take 2 HDMI inputs and output 1 HDMI to your TV

I already have a receiver that has no hdmi, I will rest at ease knowing hdmi has no gains over optical?

all video to tv via hdmi, optical to receiver? if so I would buya gpu with hdmi

 

[CrimandEvil]

I already have a receiver that has no hdmi, I will rest at ease knowing hdmi has no gains over optical?

all video to tv via hdmi, optical to receiver with hdmi throughout having no gains over optical?

Have you even bothered to read the thread at all? HDMI has more bandwidth for audio then SPDIF does but this only really matters if you are using some sort of HD DVD format.

 

[JRT]

you guys do understand that most new tv's have a digital audio out jack (generally optical) so that you can feed those hdmi devices directly to your tv and then send the digital audio back to the receiver. this is good for those of us that don't have hdmi jacks on our receivers.

The problem there is that a lot of these TVs won’t send a 5.1 stream from that optical output.
The Samsung HLS5087W that I had is a case in point, it would output 2.0 ONLY.
Some TVs will even introduce a lip-synch issue when passing-thru audio, so HDMI is a far from perfect solution for audio.

Personally I have no interest in audio over HDMI at this time.
I do everything with optical cables to my receiver.

Digital Viper-X, HDMI cables are only expensive if you buy them Best Buy, they are a huge rip off.
Monoprice.com has damn good quality cables for cheap; I bought 2-12’ HDMI cables and 2-DVI --> HDMI dongles for $45 shipped, check them out.

 

[G'ßöö]

Have you even bothered to read the thread at all? HDMI has more bandwidth for audio then SPDIF does but this only really matters if you are using some sort of HD DVD format.

every damn word! why gotta be like that. its confusing damnit. I dont use spdif, I wanna know advantages, if any, of hdmi over optical. did you read what I asked? NO!

 

[Moofasa~]

every damn word! why gotta be like that. its confusing damnit. I dont use spdif, I wanna know advantages, if any, of hdmi over optical. did you read what I asked? NO!

Maybe if you took the time to read my post, you would know. I'll quote it again (this time in bold for you).

I know the compliant (I'm part of this group) with digital output on the PC (ie: S/PDIF out) is that it only supports stereo uncompressed. As you all know, multichannel audio is only supported through lossy codecs (ac3/dd and dts). The lossy codecs obviously have a negative effect on sound quality (not to mention DDL/DTS:C is limited to only 16bit/48kHz). But with HDMI output, we can now digitally output 7.1 uncompressed (and up to 24bit/192kHz too) to our receivers. Not a bad deal (since it's basically free with our video card, even the cheaper ones)!

 

[SamuraiInBlack]

For guys like me that have PC speakers that hook up via 3.5mm jacks, the HDMI feature is wasted on me. In all honesty it would probably be better suited to the HT enthusiast crowd more than the gamer crowd. Just because one is a hardcore gamer does not mean that they've also blown a couple thousand dollars into a badass sound system.

I think from a future proofing standpoint it would be great, as there are monitors coming out with HDMI ports. But I really can't see too many PC speaker setups going to HDMI. I mean, hell as it is, how many sets can you find with an optical one?

 

[CrimandEvil]

Maybe if you took the time to read my post, you would know. I'll quote it again (this time in bold for you).

Clearly it's not worth trying to explain it to him since he's not even listening or he doesn't know what all the words mean when put together. Several times this question has been answered in the thread already, twice directly to him. Maybe english isn't he's first spoken language?

 

[ServerKing]

Pointless, thats what fiber optics on sound cards are for. Even the people that love there hdmi to a ht reciever are stupid because why run that when you can run it direct from the tv and a fiberoptic cable direct to the ht system. I dont know why everyone cares about audio on the hdmi cable especially since there are different versions of hdmi when there is only 1 fiber optic.

 

[VulturEMaN]

THE REAL QUESTION IS:

Which one...ATi or nVidia....will be stupid enough to try and grab Creative? lol

I'd love to see one of them grab turtle beach and start busting out some really sexy stuff....

 

[Jiffylush]

every damn word! why gotta be like that. its confusing damnit. I dont use spdif, I wanna know advantages, if any, of hdmi over optical. did you read what I asked? NO!

The advantage of HDMI over optical (spdif) is increased bandwidth that allows you to pass up to 7.1 uncompressed audio, optical (spdif) limits you to two channels of uncompressed (lossless) audio.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

The advantage of HDMI over optical (spdif) is increased bandwidth that allows you to pass up to 7.1 uncompressed audio, optical (spdif) limits you to two channels of uncompressed (lossless) audio.

to further expand on this here is a quote from yahoo?

You will be fine using optical, for now. Blu Ray and HD-DVD use, over the HDMI output, a "lossless" format called DTS-HD and Dolby HD. No receiver in a typical consumer price range as of yet has these decoders. Feel free to get the best that digital video has to offer and upgrade the receiver later.

I don't believe there is a bandwidth problem with Optical, more just the fact that the industry wants to move to HDMI and get rid of coax/optical

 

[maxius]

I think audio over hdmi is a good solution just as long as it is a quality solution, and we can have cards with a optical audio in and a way to turn the audio processor off in software or hardware. also cards should be made with no audio processor as well what will decide this our $$$ so spend wisely

 

[pgwalsh]

I will not buy any entertainment equipment for home use unless it has HDMI. Regardless if I can use it now or not, I prefer to plan for the future and HDMI is the new standard.

 

[R3MF]

unlikely i would use it.

always had separate speakers, even on PC's that have a widescreen LCD TV.

 

[aldy402]

its useful to those who use hdtvs to drive their pc

for monitor users, no

in the end....
they should make different editions of the video card
1 without the price markup

 

[Torsten]

I would never use it.

In my case, my Westy has dvi inputs in addition to HDMI, so I will always just use DVI.
My audio card uses optical out to the reciever, and that wont change either.

 

[LANm0nk3y]

The problem there is that a lot of these TVs won’t send a 5.1 stream from that optical output.
The Samsung HLS5087W that I had is a case in point, it would output 2.0 ONLY.
Some TVs will even introduce a lip-synch issue when passing-thru audio, so HDMI is a far from perfect solution for audio.

Personally I have no interest in audio over HDMI at this time.
I do everything with optical cables to my receiver.

Digital Viper-X, HDMI cables are only expensive if you buy them Best Buy, they are a huge rip off.
Monoprice.com has damn good quality cables for cheap; I bought 2-12’ HDMI cables and 2-DVI --> HDMI dongles for $45 shipped, check them out.

It seems like a configuration problem, just MHO. It should be digital signal.

 

[thedude42]

Chalk up another "wasted on me" tally.

I don't own a single display with HDMI, nor a receiver with HDMI (I am assuming these exist, but question why they would even sell since copy protection restrictions would prevent the video signal from being down-converted to analog, and a display with HDMI would likely have analog and digital output for audio to go to a surround sound receiver).

Paying a premium for a video card to have this output option seems like one of those things ATI would put in their top-end all-in-wonder, and rightly so. The only reason I would see to include it in any other card geared at mid-high end gaming is if there was no added cost to ATI to include the feature, say if it was cheaper for them to produce a baseline card with HDMI rather than produce a separate set of cards with and without HDMI. I get the impression, however, that this is not the case.

 

[Highendtoys]

I would like to use audio over HDMI for my media center system as long as the audio is as good as an X-Fi and the video is as good as the NVIDIA 8800 GTS 320 that I have in my media center system right now.

I run from the media center to a Pioneer Elite 84 reciever that has 4 HDMI inputs. Currently I am using a DVI to HDMI cable to run the video and a coax cable from the X-Fi to the same reciever. With a HDMI solution that would cut back on one cable, only 30 others to deal with at that point but five of them are HDMI.

 

[Vette5885]

For my HTPC, which currently uses a DVI-HDMI cable, this will be priceless. One less device (sound card) on the PCI bus (no, I don't use onboard, as I currently use analog audio). It'll keep my HTPC build simple and easier to hook up, as all I need is the two 550 Pro inputs and video/audio out.

Though for my desktop, this will be a waste. Sure, if the audio portion supports OpenAL and can play surround sound from games, it may be a factor in the future, but I don't plan on upgrading my speakers anytime soon.

Being that manufacturers like AMD, Intel, NVidia, and so forth, seem to make most of their money on mainstream products and not on the elite stuff (you know, used by most the people who post in this forum), it would make perfect sense to include audio with the sound card. It'll be easier to sell a mainstream computer that requires only power input, possibly video input for HTPCs, and one cable output (with mouse/keyboard/network being wireless) for both audio and video.

Then look at some of the people who run crazy big screens. Sure, a lot are using external speakers, but now those who use TVs for monitors can use the TV itself for audio as well. Maybe TV manufacturers will see this niche market and create 1080p TVs with basic built-in receivers, so you simply hook up the surround and sub channels to your TV.

 

[whrswoldo]

Some of the responses in this thread are making my head hurt

OPINION: If you use your PC only for gaming, this has few (if any) implications for you. Stop reading this thread now.

FACT: There is a difference in bandwidth between optical/coax and HDMI audio. You cannot pass-through uncompressed 5.1/7/1 audio over optical or coax. Seriously, look it up.

OPINION: Is the compression associated with "lossy" codecs such as DTS or AC3 noticeable? Probably not. Who knows, but if you're going to be shelling out $ for a kickass sound system and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players and movies, you're going to want as little signal degradation as possible.

OPINION: If you don't think this is a big deal, then it probably isn't for you, and you should probably stop reading this thread now.

OPINION: If you own or plan on building a HTPC coupled with a decent receiver and 5.1/7.1 sound system, especially if you would like to be able to watch HD-DVD/Blu-Ray movies, this is great news! There are not currently many affordable receivers that can take advantage of the benefits of HDMI audio from a HTPC, however there are such receivers on the nearby horizon; since we are after all speculating about products that don't exist yet I think it is only fair point out upcoming products that fit the bill, such as the upcoming Onyko TX-SR605:

TX-SR605 MSRP $499 Shipping mid May
*Full A/V Processing via HDMI 1.3a with Upconversion (2 in 1 out)
*HDMI Deep Color Capable (36bit)
*Component Video Upconversion and HDTV-Capable (50 MHZ) Video Switching (3 in 1 out)
*WRAT/ Optimum Gain Volume Circuitry/ Non-Scaling Configuration/ A-Form Listening Mode Memory/ RI
*Faroudja DCDi
*Audyssey 2EQ Room Acoustics Correction
*7.1 Multichannel Inputs for PCM Delivery of Hi-Def Audio Sources
*DOLBY Decoder - PLIIx, DD, DD-EX, TrueHD
*DTS Decoder - DTS, ES, NEO6, 96/24, HD Master Audio
*S-Video (5 in 2 out)
*Digital Audio IN (OPT/COAX) 3/3
*Composite Video (5 in/2 out)
*Power 90W/Ch
*Powered Zone 2 and Zone 2 Line-Out
*Bi-Amp Capable
*XM and Sirius ports
*XM HD Surround Sound through Neural Surround

 

[LANm0nk3y]

Some of the responses in this thread are making my head hurt

Wow, you alright man? Some of us aren't into HD stuff as others are. It's great stuff, but to some it's no big deal. Some thinks louder sounds are better quality. Some hate wide-screen format because of the black bar (even on a wide-screen tv). I have a friend who scretches 4:3 to wide-screen (yuck) and he saids it's better because it fills up the screen. So don't get so irritated at the ignorants of others -- It'll get to ya.

 

[deeznuts]

to further expand on this here is a quote from yahoo?



I don't believe there is a bandwidth problem with Optical, more just the fact that the industry wants to move to HDMI and get rid of coax/optical

Don't listen to that advice from yahoo questions. First, yeah no decently priced receiver right now supports TrueHD or DTS-HD, which are lossless compressions, but they do support multi-channel PCM, which is uncompressed at all. And you need HDMI to stream PCM to your receiver. Cheapest one is the Panasonic XR-57 (only one HDMI port I believe). $300 or less from Amazon. It is a digital amlifier which a lot of people like. Next in line would be an Onkyo model, I forget the exact name but I am almost certain it's the Onkyo 604. About $400. Two HDMI inputs.

 

[codename47]

My pioneer reciever currently has HDMI switching so it very well maybe a solution for a one stop solution for computer audio.

Currently I use an X-Fi and a DTS-610 to get true 7.1 sound from my computer to reciever via the analogue b/c creative is weird when it comes to the digital out on the X-Fi and Windows MCE isn't compatible with my Revolution 7.1 which did great digital out.

I guess the question I'd have is how good is the sound quality output? If it was HD audio or close to what I have now then I'd definitely try it b/c then I'd remove another card from the htpc and only have a video card ( I use beyond tv for serving so all the tuners are in a file server in a different room.). I like the idea of less traffic on my pci bus. If they make a mid range card that can be passively cooled then I'd seriously think about it. The current HDMI solutions on video cards going through spdifs is pretty pathetic so maybe this will turn the corner on make a video card really HDMI compatible.

However another question is when will a 5 1/4 HD-DVD/blue ray drive become available and don't tell me to go buy the XBOX external....

 

[BoogerBomb]

What would be nice is if you can have your sound card do its audio processing and then send the signal to the video card and it sends the audio out over the HDMI connection. For me that means we would need just one cable from computer to TV. Then our connection from tv to stereo would serve both needs.

If it works like this then I would be interested. But if you mean having the video card do everything the sound card does then I doubt it would be good quality audio.

 

[G'ßöö]

Wow, you alright man? Some of us aren't into HD stuff as others are. It's great stuff, but to some it's no big deal. Some thinks louder sounds are better quality. Some hate wide-screen format because of the black bar (even on a wide-screen tv). I have a friend who scretches 4:3 to wide-screen (yuck) and he saids it's better because it fills up the screen. So don't get so irritated at the ignorants of others -- It'll get to ya.

no shit, how arrogant of some of you. I have no idea spdif is optical. not everyone knows the fucking terms. chill and be helpful

 

[Trepidati0n]

no shit, how arrogant of some of you. I have no idea spdif is optical. not everyone knows the fucking terms. chill and be helpful

There is a middle ground. Most of the "HD" type people around here are trying to meet in the middle. But, in order to explain things without dumbing it down to the point of losing vital infomation...is difficult when bottom won't lift themselves up a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPDIF

As for a bit of information...S/PDIF is a protocol and not just optics. Optical is just one method of moving the data as is a piece of wire.

 

[CrimandEvil]

But, in order to explain things without dumbing it down to the point of losing vital infomation...is difficult when bottom won't lift themselves up a bit.

No shit, some people need to educate themselves a little if they don't understand something. Damn lazy people.