r580 slated for early 2006 launch

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wizzackr

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"The R580 will be ATI’s latest offering in its flagship GPU line, following the launch of the Radeon X1800 series in early October. The new chip, which entered the tape-out stage in the middle of the third quarter, is now in volume shipments for sampling, according to the sources." - http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20051124A7039.html

nice - wouldn't have thought the rumors to be true. :eek:
 
Remember what I've been telling you hardocpers about this chip..and flog me if I'm wrong!

It is a monster..
 
That's good news but remember that R520 taped-out well over a year ago and look how long that's been available for. Then there's R420, that taped-out in December '03 and when was that available in decent quantities? R480 was on the SIG list by early November '04 but you couldn't buy them for another 3 months. A quick glance on the SIG list reveals no sign of the R580 yet. My best guess is a March/April timeframe for R580.

I wonder if ATi will opt for more clocks or more pipes.... or maybe both. ;)
 
Sharky974 said:
Remember what I've been telling you hardocpers about this chip..and flog me if I'm wrong!
Click to expand...
48 pipes on 90nm?? R520 has 321 million transistors with just a third of those pipes! The die size, transistor count and power consumption would be through the roof. I can't even imagine how bad yields would be. 24 pipes and a bit more speed sounds doable but 48 pipes on 90nm sounds like pure fantasy. Unless.... the definition or design of those pipes are radically different to R520 of course.
 
coz said:
48 pipes on 90nm?? R520 has 321 million transistors with just a third of those pipes! The die size, transistor count and power consumption would be through the roof. I can't even imagine how bad yields would be. 24 pipes and a bit more speed sounds doable but 48 pipes on 90nm sounds like pure fantasy. Unless.... the definition or design of those pipes are radically different to R520 of course.
Click to expand...
perhaps unified?
in any case, not just taped out, but
is now in volume shipments for sampling
Click to expand...
 
It won't have 48 pipes, instead of having 16 pipes and 1 ALU like the r520 it will have 16 pipes and 3 ALU's, at least that's what my understanding is from beyond3d
 
That's good news but remember that R520 taped-out well over a year ago and look how long that's been available for. Then there's R420, that taped-out in December '03 and when was that available in decent quantities? R480 was on the SIG list by early November '04 but you couldn't buy them for another 3 months. A quick glance on the SIG list reveals no sign of the R580 yet. My best guess is a March/April timeframe for R580.
Click to expand...

the R420 came out in quantities plenty good, the XTPE and XT never did hit the market as hard as consumers wanted them to

the r580, same thing again about the XTPE how ever the XT was widely available sooner then people expected

the r520 would of came out on the expected date, but cores failing kept ATI from mass production, i'm sure since they figured out the problem they were able to mass produce both families of cores

i think ATI hit alot of bad luck with this release, still a good release, wasn't a paper launch like alot of people expected, except for the x1600, but who cares that product isn't very good compared to the competition anyways, either way ATI is trying to get back on track and i would hope they could get it out on the expected release date they set months ago, heres to hoping the competition lives and doesn't die
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
It won't have 48 pipes, instead of having 16 pipes and 1 ALU like the r520 it will have 16 pipes and 3 ALU's, at least that's what my understanding is from beyond3d
Click to expand...

Yeah, essentially an r520 except with 3 times the shading power. Same 16 ROP setup.
For today's games, probably overkill but I bet these will be awesome for Unreal Engine 3.
Although, I'll be surprised as hell if these are available before April at the earliest.
 
It's still at least 4 months away, plus I'd hate to see what they cost.
By that time, XT price will probably be down to 450 and XL will be down to 300 but the
R580 msrp will be 600-700 or something crazy.
 
I'm not sure where the 16 pipes with 3 ALU's each thing came from, but I'm pretty sure it's wrong.

I think somebody just started saying it then others started copying it because it sounded better or more realistic to them than 48 pipes.

But I still think it's 48 pipes.

It was hinted they wont change the ALU per pipe structure from what they have now because the compiler is so already highly optimized for the current pipe config, and I guess rewriting the compiler is too much trouble and expense.

Yes it will be a big chip, somwhere on the order of 400m transistors. It's doable though. 3X the pipes doesn't mean anywhere near 3X the size. Everything else stays the same.
 
There were leaked ATi powerpoint screens that showed configurations between x1800 and R580.

16, 1, x, x, for R520 vice 16, 3, x, x in R580

Combined with the known physical differences between x1300, and x1600
the 3d graphics buffs @B3D made a very good inference on what that second column in the powerpoint presentation represents.

I'm pretty damn sure R580 isn't going to have 48 "pipelines" ;)
 
Stereophile said:
There were leaked ATi powerpoint screens that showed configurations between x1800 and R580.

16, 1, x, x, for R520 vice 16, 3, x, x in R580
Click to expand...

Uh-huh. Link? I'd liketo see those.

And it's 16-1-3-1 for R580. First column is ROPS. Third column is pipes per ROP.

Also I was just thinking, if Nvidia can produce 300m transistors on 110nm, 400+ for ATI on 90 should be no problem. You would end up with the same or smaller die size. 110nm is not even a full process node.
 
I'm not arguing semantics.
16 1 x x
16 x 1 x

whichever it is....you know what I'm talking about.

All you've said is, I think they're wrong -
One person came up with the 3x ALU idea and everyone copied them. So, let's see what evidence you have to support this 48 pipeline theory ? All you've done is speculate.
At this point, I'm going with the consensus at B3D.
 
Stereophile said:
I'm not arguing semantics.
16 1 x x
16 x 1 x

whichever it is....you know what I'm talking about.

All you've said is, I think they're wrong -
One person came up with the 3x ALU idea and everyone copied them. So, let's see what evidence you have to support this 48 pipeline theory ? All you've done is speculate.
At this point, I'm going with the consensus at B3D.
Click to expand...

For some reason I trust the tech-heads at B3D for this info, as we learned from past experiences just making things bigger or higher MHZ isnt better(prescott) instead make it more efficient!
 
Shadow27 said:
That's what i'm putting my money on too, buy hey if it's 48 pipes :cool: Win Win situation
Click to expand...
A 16-1-3-1 configuration is effectively 48 pipes.
 
No I bet I know what happened..yeah they decoded the slides.

Based on the configurations of all the recently released cards, they were able to figure out what each catagory meant. And that's how 48 pipes for R580 was deduced.

Maybe you choose to believe they will be mini-pipes or something, as I said that's supposedly not likely because of the compiler issue. We will see.
 
hmm as for R580 I sure ATi has learned from whatever errors they made with R520 and might be able to deliver R580 in good quantities at release date

*knock on wood*
 
Well the rumor is G80 on the day of the R580 announcement so this could be quite a battle. The G80 better be something if the R580 rumors are even close to true. Here's hoping the ati card comes out on top. I'd love for a card to be not only faster but have better image quality at a similar price. I think ati can deliver that.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
A 16-1-3-1 configuration is effectively 48 pipes.
Click to expand...

no 0.0 48 pipes is 48 pipes =p. 16-1-3-1 is 16 pipes with 3pixles/pipe i think this is more efficient specially for size! its like having a 48 lane highway with 1 car per lane, or a 16lane highway with 3, they aren't the same, but they deliver teh same result, i understand you said effectivley but that is missleading
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
no 0.0 48 pipes is 48 pipes =p. 16-1-3-1 is 16 pipes with 3pixles/pipe i think this is more efficient specially for size! its like having a 48 lane highway with 1 car per lane, or a 16lane highway with 3, they aren't the same, but they deliver teh same result, i understand you said effectivley but that is missleading
Click to expand...

No, it isn't 16 pipes with 3 pixels.

The number scheme MEANS certain things, based on RV515, RV530, R520, etc etc etc.

The first numbers is ROPS. It's not pipes. It's what outputs to the screen. Both G70 and R520 are 16 ROPS. ROPS no longer always matches pipeline count in high end cards. 16 is plenty for now it's not the bottleneck.

I dont recall what the 2 and 4 columns mean, they're less important anyway. But the third column is a multiple, it's PIPES PER ROP. Therefore R520 is 16-1-1-1. G70 would be 16-1-1.5-1.

R580 is 16-1-3-1. Therefore it must be 16X3=48 pipes.
 
Either way, it will certainly change the definition of a pipe or possibly that word will become more meaningless. :p
 
No, I think the pipes will stay exactly the same as throughout history.

That's what I'm thinking.

And I do mean EXACTLY.
 
I'm glad ATi are trying to demonstrate the power you can achieve even if you don't have the same amount of pipelines you can recieve the same performance. Anyway I know a lot of vendors have samples of this card right now, hopefully some information will leak soon ;)
 
I hope ATi and Nvidia come through this next gen with something rock solid for a few years. My biggest fear at this point is Nvidia or ATi exclusively getting physx chips on their higher end cards and mainstream versions. IF and a big IF I can picture one or the other somehow legally setting it up where they are the only ones with the chip and Nvidia has their logo on a ton of games and that would be a huge punch in the face. Praying for both to release cards with the chips on board both brands so things are more equal but the past has shown people don't play fair :).

Anyhow I hope the ATi next gen is really nice and they actually get their pricing down to Nvidia's level. I wouldn't mind an ATi motherboard either but so far they look more for the budget brand PC's. ATi I can get nice onboard sound Nvidia I get crap. ATi no sli Nvidia sli uugh I am just really looking forward to both companies matching each other up as close as possible.
 
I hope nvidia and ati can deliver next gen video cards with 2x the performance of the previous gen in terms of raw power like when the 6800 series came out and it had 2x the power of 9800xt
 
There are also speculation that the R580 will be like four RV530 cores (Radeon X1600 XT).

ATi is possibly too going to a smaller production line, 80nm, with the upcoming RV560, RV535, and RV505.
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
I'm glad ATi are trying to demonstrate the power you can achieve even if you don't have the same amount of pipelines you can recieve the same performance. Anyway I know a lot of vendors have samples of this card right now, hopefully some information will leak soon ;)
Click to expand...
The 7800 is a 16 pipe card too.......

24 / 16 / 32
(Textures / Pixels / Z Samples per clock)
 
Flak Monkey said:
Well the rumor is G80 on the day of the R580 announcement so this could be quite a battle. The G80 better be something if the R580 rumors are even close to true. Here's hoping the ati card comes out on top. I'd love for a card to be not only faster but have better image quality at a similar price. I think ati can deliver that.
Click to expand...

More like the 90nm g70, the g80 is still far off.
 
forcefed said:
More like the 90nm g70, the g80 is still far off.
Click to expand...
IDK, thats not what the rumbleing at xtemesystems say. I agree that g70 at 90nm seems more likely but thats just not what I'm hearing. Either way I'll be happy.

Edit: several sites where reporting the G80 got tapped out sucesfully months ago so I dont see why it couldn't happen if the r580 is all it's cracked up to be.
 
LOL being taped out and having an actual card are two different things (Re: R520), I imagien ati also have their next-gen card taped out
 
Sharky974 said:
No, it isn't 16 pipes with 3 pixels.

The number scheme MEANS certain things, based on RV515, RV530, R520, etc etc etc.

The first numbers is ROPS. It's not pipes. It's what outputs to the screen. Both G70 and R520 are 16 ROPS. ROPS no longer always matches pipeline count in high end cards. 16 is plenty for now it's not the bottleneck.

I dont recall what the 2 and 4 columns mean, they're less important anyway. But the third column is a multiple, it's PIPES PER ROP. Therefore R520 is 16-1-1-1. G70 would be 16-1-1.5-1.

R580 is 16-1-3-1. Therefore it must be 16X3=48 pipes.
Click to expand...



Sharky974 said:
I'm not sure where the 16 pipes with 3 ALU's each thing came from, but I'm pretty sure it's wrong.

I think somebody just started saying it then others started copying it because it sounded better or more realistic to them than 48 pipes.
Click to expand...

:confused:
So you're done being obtuse ?
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
LOL being taped out and having an actual card are two different things (Re: R520), I imagien ati also have their next-gen card taped out
Click to expand...
I mean like 7 months ago. Sample boards are supposedly making there rounds to nvidia partners. 7 months is plenty of time to get from a successful tap-out to sample boards. It's been done before in less than 120 day's. Plus the g80 started being worked on since nv40's release. I'm not saying that it will be comming out that soon but I am saying that it is definitly possible.
 
Flak Monkey said:
Plus the g80 started being worked on since nv40's release. I'm not saying that it will be comming out that soon but I am saying that it is definitly possible.
Click to expand...

I know, I'm just trying to point out that ati is also. Look at the xbox360's C1 gpu, been in the works for a very long time
 
ClearM4 said:
So, what is the rumored* lanuch date for the R580. Feb. or end of March?
Click to expand...
There's an update on that from Digitimes here.

ATI’s next-generation flagship GPU, the R580, which the graphics chip vendor expects to release in January of 2006, should actually start shipping at the end of the first quarter, the makers (Taiwan-based graphics card makers) noted.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a January paper-launch and availability in March. :(
 
coz said:
There's an update on that from Digitimes here.



That sounds like a January paper-launch and availability in March. :(
Click to expand...

I think ATI (better!) won't have the balls to do another paper-launch. After what nVidia pulled off with their last hard launches that would be too much of a PR suicide IMHO.

To me it sounds more like they can hang with nVidia now and will rather extend the life-cycle of X1K in order to not make it one of the shortest-lived products ever, as that could piss a lot of their established user-base off. I mean what the heck - buy a brand new 600 bucks vidcard in November just to see a 1.5 times faster one be released 12 weeks later?
 
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