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R580 Info?

Sounds good. Nvidia is definitely going to be facing heavy competition next year.

Interesting how the current X1800 cards actually have 32-pipelines in their cores. I wonder if they're laser cut? It would be amazing if somebody figures out how to unlock them :D .
 
GVX said:
Sounds good. Nvidia is definitely going to be facing heavy competition next year.

Interesting how the current X1800 cards actually have 32-pipelines in their cores. I wonder if they're laser cut? It would be amazing if somebody figures out how to unlock them :D .
Click to expand...

the reason they were reduced to 16 was because in most of the chips the pipes are broken :p very very FEW cards would be able to unlock up to 24 let along 32 (that is if it is possible)also did you not read what is rumoured that nvidia will be fighting back with? :p its gonna be a good battle in 2006

Chilly
 
Chilly said:
the reason they were reduced to 16 was because in most of the chips the pipes are broken :p very very FEW cards would be able to unlock up to 24 let along 32 (that is if it is possible)

Chilly
Click to expand...
Still, even if you could unlock just one quad out of the 4 that have been locked up, an X1800XT would instantly become quite competitive with a 7800GTX512.

I have no idea if it's possible, however, considering that no BIOS has been written to support the additional pipes (the BIOS would have to be home made).
 
GVX said:
Still, even if you could unlock just one quad out of the 4 that have been locked up, an X1800XT would instantly become quite competitive with a 7800GTX512.

I have no idea if it's possible, however, considering that no BIOS has been written to support the additional pipes (the BIOS would have to be home made).
Click to expand...

and alias lies the problem, there would need to be a homebrew bios made, or atleast a heavally hacked one I would think, and that would be hard to make.

Chilly
 
Uhm, I thought the R520 was originally designed to be 16 pipes, clocked extremely high, and that all that 32 pipe nonsense was !!!!!! BS. The problems they had was with andother companies product that wouldn't allow them to clock it over 490mhz. The R580 will have 16 ROPS, but 48 ALU's to shade pixels....not even close to 32/24 true pixel shaders.

There are ZERO quads to unlock, what you see is what you get.
 
No, indications are it will have 48 PIPES. 96 ALU's. Trust me, I have my sources. Ok, I just read Beyond3D a lot.

Considering Nvidia is at 24 pipes..and ATI is competing well currently with only 16..

And it's true, there are NO hidden pipes in the 7800 GTX. What you see is what you get, that guy was right

Oh also, R520 was never 32 pipes either. They laughed at that at beyond3D also. We have die photos, which is more than you can say for G70..
 
Sharky974 said:
No, indications are it will have 48 PIPES. 96 ALU's. Trust me, I have my sources. Ok, I just read Beyond3D a lot.

Considering Nvidia is at 24 pipes..and ATI is competing well currently with only 16..

And it's true, there are NO hidden pipes in the 7800 GTX. What you see is what you get, that guy was right

Oh also, R520 was never 32 pipes either. They laughed at that at beyond3D also. We have die photos, which is more than you can say for G70..
Click to expand...

LOL, nubcake. There is no way in HELL it will have 48 hard pipes and 144 ALU's. The R580 will have 16 hard pipes and 3 ALU's per pipe, not 2. That die would be wider than the fucking card, it would top 600 million transistors and cost over $2000 a board. 48 hard pipes would be retarded and too much of a leap over current tech. There have never been any "hidden" pipes, just *device for moving air, younger male* wetdreams, noone would waste that much die space without respinning. They'd be better off going the x360 route and placing edram withintegrated AA circuitry on it.

You sir, are a *device for moving air, younger male* :rolleyes:


LOL, 48 hard pipes, omfg....

Think R530 X 3 with higher clocks and better memory, impressive for 3dmark05, we'll see how it does when nvidia switches to 90nm for their winter refresh, I really don't expect too much, but they've been good at keeping secrets.
 
I vote utter, pure BS on that.

So far, the R580 is being planned as a Q1 2006 refresh, (...) the card bears little to no similarities (with R520). While based on the same design, they are not the same chips.
The R580, like the R520, was built from the ground up as a 32 pipeline chip. This time ATi knew what problems they would experience with the base architecture.
Click to expand...

AFAIK this is highly unlikely - i thought it was a refresh and not a different core.

ATi's R580 team made sure that, unlike the R520, the R580 would be perfect on its first tape out (its first production test run). The yield of chips that had all 32 pipelines working at the desired core speeds was high enough to produce good profit at a reasonable price.
(...)
Currently the R580 IS WORKING, and IN-HOUSE some of the AIB's have already gotten samples for their own testing.
(...)
From information I have grabbed from AIB and ATi sources, the chip IS working well at 32 pipelines, and while MHz haven't been locked down yet, most of the R580 chips run fine at high 400's to mid 500's with dual slot cooling.
Click to expand...

if you ask me, that sounds way too good to be true... PLUS i still get such a bad taste in my mouth if i hear someone say "according to my sources within ATI". how often did i read this before r520 was launched - threads full of "info from within ATI" with NO correct info whatsoever :(

I say it's just that "super-moderator" trying to get a lot of hits for his unknown webpage, but that might just be me.
 
Look, Dave Baummann at Beyond3d who is in the know has repeatedly stated it has 3X the shading power of R520.

Draw your own conclusions.

Even someone asked if he mean ALU's or pipes, and he said they wont change pipes because the compiler is already optimized for the current config. So it will be the same two ALU structure they have now, just 48 of them.

He has a numbering scheme over there, like for R520 16-1-1-1, and like the third number stands for "pipes per ROP", the first number is ROPS.

R580 is 16-1-3-1. Stated many times. 16 ROPS, 3 pipes per ROP. Do the math.

If you want to knock the chip knock it for only having 16 texture units, or 16 ROPS. But it will be a math monster.
 
wtf........... 32 pipes? i just upgraded to 16 can they slow it down a bit? lol............y not just 28 or something.
 
tvdang7 said:
wtf........... 32 pipes? i just upgraded to 16 can they slow it down a bit? lol............y not just 28 or something.
Click to expand...

48 pipes. Get it right.
 
"Regular participants of our forums may well have been aware of some reasonably obscure numbering schemes for many months that were used to describe parts of the performance characteristics, such as 16-1-1-1 for R520, 4-1-3-2 for RV530 and 4-1-1-1 for RV515, but until now the exact meaning of these weren't known. With the specifications for each of the chips we can now derive that the first number equates to the number of ROP's, the second the number of texture units per ROP, the third the number of "shader pipes" per ROP, and finally the Z/Stencil multiplier per ROP - with these figures in mind, we'll let you consider the ramifications for parts in the R5xx series that are still to come..."

Now with the above in mind, understand he has repeteadly stated R580 as 16-1-3-1.
 
Sharky974 said:
"Regular participants of our forums may well have been aware of some reasonably obscure numbering schemes for many months that were used to describe parts of the performance characteristics, such as 16-1-1-1 for R520, 4-1-3-2 for RV530 and 4-1-1-1 for RV515, but until now the exact meaning of these weren't known. With the specifications for each of the chips we can now derive that the first number equates to the number of ROP's, the second the number of texture units per ROP, the third the number of "shader pipes" per ROP, and finally the Z/Stencil multiplier per ROP - with these figures in mind, we'll let you consider the ramifications for parts in the R5xx series that are still to come..."

Now with the above in mind, understand he has repeteadly stated R580 as 16-1-3-1.
Click to expand...

Correct, but this card will not perform 3X as fast as an R520. It might very well perform 1.5X as well, which is amazing. These are the "extreme" pipes that people were talking about before.

I can't seem to find it, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the g70 24-1-2-1 ?
 
Nope, it would be 16-1-1.5-1 (AFAIK).

I really only know the ROPS and Pipes of G70. 16 and 24.

Supposedly R580 will have 48 real pipes. I know, I'll believe it when I see it, but that's what they say.
 
48 pixel pipelines seems unlikely. But, it seems far more believable if it is a unified shader architecture...
 
Yeah, it sounds like it'll have 16 hard pipes with 3 ALU's per pipe, which should be freakin awesome, but it would tank the sales of x1800xt. Couple that with 900mhz gddr3 or higher gddr4 and we could have a winner, but we all know that with speculated stats you can just cut half to a third off of them and thats what you get.
 
Rabidfox said:
Yeah, it sounds like it'll have 16 hard pipes with 3 ALU's per pipe, which should be freakin awesome, but it would tank the sales of x1800xt.
Click to expand...

Not really..they could move that to the highend (400+), and move the x1800x down to the 300 to 400 price ranage....
 
If ATi could maintain current speeds and simply get one more quad enabled would be a massive performance gain.
 
Trimlock said:
TSMC have a .08 process?
Click to expand...

Well R560, R535 and R505 are going to a 80nm process (Q2 2006) so I imagine it could be possible for the R580 to go there as well unless they leave it and use it for next-gen?
 
whens the r580 *supposed* to launch? Q1 '06? cuz if so, i might as well hold out on upgrading till then.
 
Well R560, R535 and R505 are going to a 80nm process (Q2 2006) so I imagine it could be possible for the R580 to go there as well unless they leave it and use it for next-gen?
Click to expand...

hmm... all interesting, but with rumors being around of cores already being produced i think we would of heard about TSMC's new process, i think it'll still be .09, but the lower end revisioned cores will probably be on the new process
 
wait. so what does that say about the release date? they said it was ready for fall shipping. i hope that doesnt mean fall 06...
 
i really dont know. when is it supposed to be released? january?

and cuz there was a thing in there that said something about fall, and im tired so im not reading coherently.
 
Rabidfox said:
Correct, but this card will not perform 3X as fast as an R520. It might very well perform 1.5X as well, which is amazing. These are the "extreme" pipes that people were talking about before.

I can't seem to find it, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the g70 24-1-2-1 ?
Click to expand...
Well it depends:

R520: 16-1-1-1
RV530: 4-1-3-2
RV515: 4-1-1-1

First number represents the number of TMU units in the core I believe, which is only 4 on the RV530 architecture, so that would be 24 on G70 GTX, the 1 number represents amount of textures per pipe perhaps, 3 represents the ratio between the amount of Pixel pipes and TMU's which is 3 to 1. The last number presents the number of z-colorless values I think the card can output which is 8 per clock. Z-pixels vs ROP's I believe. Only RV530 has the double z-stencil/ROP feature from what I can see.

G70:24-1-1-2
NV42:12-1-1-2

I believe thie above would represents G70 GTX's pipeline configuration in comparison the way ATI's does it. I have no idea where the 3 ALU rumor for R580 came from.... both G70 and R520 have 2ALU's per pipe right now, so if the 3 ALU's are at the smae level of the current ones it would represent a 50% increase in math per pipe.
 
That sounds right, so the r580 would be like this:

r580 16-1-3-2

If correct, that thing would be a shader monster. It'd be just as fast as the x1800xt of today in traditional games, but the more games that use HDR and extremely complicated shader instructions it'll show it's worth. Something invested in the future, but not wholly used now, like the advanced memory controller. Hrmmm, it sounds almost like the nv4x....shader model 3.0, but no games, and when games came out for it, it was generally too slow to play them anyway....
 
Soymilk said:
i really dont know. when is it supposed to be released? january?

and cuz there was a thing in there that said something about fall, and im tired so im not reading coherently.
Click to expand...

no, it hasn't been delayed more but your correct that you might of heard fall '05, but that would be old info (it was actually supposto lanuch whenthe x1800xt lanuched, then again the x1800 was suppsto lanch march of last year :rolleyes: so they pushed it back) Q1 2006, which is anywhere from like jan the 20th or something till late march early april (I forget but Q1 is something around there) but I would expect pictures and real data on the car in jan/feb and I'm guessing (imo) that it will be relesed in Feb(most likely) or march (less likely)

Chilly
 
Rabidfox said:
That sounds right, so the r580 would be like this:

r580 16-1-3-2

If correct, that thing would be a shader monster. It'd be just as fast as the x1800xt of today in traditional games, but the more games that use HDR and extremely complicated shader instructions it'll show it's worth. Something invested in the future, but not wholly used now, like the advanced memory controller. Hrmmm, it sounds almost like the nv4x....shader model 3.0, but no games, and when games came out for it, it was generally too slow to play them anyway....
Click to expand...

well effectifly (it thats true) that would mean a speed bonus of about 1.5-2 times over the r520, so if you think "traditional" pipelines it would effectively be working at the speed of 24-32 pipelines with only 16 pipelines while having the 48 pixels per run (3 pixels per run as aposed to 1 pixel per run in traditional pipelines)
 
Well, it'd be mroe like 48 pixel related math operations per cycle, this will become more apparent with later games. It should already be more apparent since NVidia is equipping its video cards with more pixel shaders than ROPs, and ATI is doing the same thing.
 
Still, ATi has not made their drivers to work well on R520, they can get much more performace from card, we know taht IQ is better, just hoping the cat 5.12 will boost it more.
 
their current 5.11's work very well with the X1800's, its going to take a wihle for the drivers to fully mature and get the speed boosts from driver optimizations that everyone expects, if anything these optimizations will carry onto their future gen cards using the same MC
 
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