R520 yields not looking good...

[coz]

According to VR-Zone anyways.........

24-pipes R520 Yield Rate at 3%

We heard that the last R520 spin at TSMC is at 3% yield rate for 24 pipes and we can certainly expect a much lower yield for 32-pipes R520. Obviously ATi is still facing some yield issues for their R520 @ 90nm process and ATI could resort to a 16 pipes R520 for better yield and make up the loss with a much higher core clock of 700MHz+ as INQ has previously suggested. It is still possible for ATi to keep to the time frame of August-September launch if decided to go ahead with 16-pipes R520. If not, 24-32 pipes R520 is expected to delayed further to Q4 this year.

An impossible story to verify so it may just be a fabrication, keep that in mind kids.

 

[ToyYoda03]

nvidia is spreading these rumors to hurt ATI because they know the new ATI card will destroy them

take the bait and run.....take the bait and run....Im obviously talking out of my ass. I wouldnt believe anything until the card is actually OUT.

 

[forcefed]

nvidia is spreading these rumors to hurt ATI because they know the new ATI card will destroy them

take the bait and run.....take the bait and run....Im obviously talking out of my ass. I wouldnt believe anything until the card is actually OUT.

Nuh-uh, i believe its matrox spreading the rumors...

 

[perplex]

haha that's why i'm buying Matrox G550 next. atleast i know i'll have the 1337357 card!

 

[Sly]

@coz
Check again. After all those tapeouts, they SHOULD have gotten it right this time. What kind of a professional company would screw up that bad?

 

[DarkBahamut]

@coz
Check again. After all those tapeouts, they SHOULD have gotten it right this time. What kind of a professional company would screw up that bad?

You never know, look at what nvidia did with the NV30 after all. Professional company or not, doesnt mean they cant screw it up.

 

[ViN86]

if enough of this junk starts gettin passed around, its gonna bring down the interweb.......

on a more serious note, the validity of this quote is not proven, but sounds logical, heh.

 

[coz]

Check again. After all those tapeouts, they SHOULD have gotten it right this time. What kind of a professional company would screw up that bad?

That's why I have doubts about this story. It's just too awful to believe - 3% yield (target clockspeed?) even with only 75% working quads?? I just hope the situation is better than that - I want to see a fit and healthy R520 with good clocks, yields and a whole bunch of pixel pipers a-piping!!

 

[Chris_B]

More bs more than likely "we heard" yeah course ya did. One of these sources that probably got the info through 60 or so other people.

 

[Cali3350]

@coz
Check again. After all those tapeouts, they SHOULD have gotten it right this time. What kind of a professional company would screw up that bad?

Nv30 what now?

 

[1c3d0g]

Damn... if this turns out to be true...that's just bad news for the folks up North. Hopefully they'll recover from this and come back strong, like nVidia failed with DustBuster but came back full force with GeForce 6xxx. On the other hand, if this story is FUD, someone pass me a baseball bat...

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Not bashing or anything, but how much would a 'good' yield of 24/32 pipe cards be? Super-Duper-Ultra-High-End cards are just a drop in the bucket of video card sales after all...

 

[PRIME1]

@coz
Check again. After all those tapeouts, they SHOULD have gotten it right this time. What kind of a professional company would screw up that bad?

It's a tough and expensive process to master. Intel is 10 times the company that ATI is and they had problems moving to a new process. This is also the first real high end 3D chip created in-house by ATI, so there is going to be a slight learning curve as well.

I think there only major problem was trying to release a high end part using the new process instead of using mid-range or low end chips that use less transistors and make the transition easier.

However they will probably use this process for the next several generations so there should not be as many delays.

It's not so much screwing up as it is trial an error. The problem is that each error can cost a lot of money and time.

 

[Big Fat Duck]

im pretty sure i heard a story from inquirer a while back that said the 3rd tapeout had successful yields

 

[PRIME1]

im pretty sure i heard a story from inquirer a while back that said the 3rd tapeout had successful yields

The Inq is like a weatherman. They can both be wrong half the time and still keep their jobs.

The Inq also said that the R520 would be out in the spring and that the 7800GTX would need a 600+W power supply and a dual slot cooler......In other words WRONG.

I read the Inq for entertainment not for news. Like the Sunday Comics.

 

[BullseyeBob]

Rumor Mill..........in overdrive.

 

[ZenOps]

I think ATi is in its third tape-out for the R520 *rumor*

So yes, yeilds would be bad IF they used either of the first two. Hopefully third times lucky, as they would definitely not go commercial with a 3 percent yield. If ATi got it in their first tapeout, it might have shown up before the GF7800...

If they need to do a fourth, it will be delayed another three months.

Nvidia is completely silent on the yeilds of the 7800, I'm thinking 50 percent or so just going by the retail price they set... If so, I think Nvidia would have been better off in the long run doing another tapeout and delaying a few months.

Anyhow, all speculation.

 

[^eMpTy^]

I honestly don't even believe that R520 has 32 pipes anymore...I think it will be 16 or 24 pipelines that just do more work per clock...

 

[4keatimj]

3% yeild for anything like that is preetty bad, so I guess we can count that as speculation. If it is true, it is a massive stuff up on ATis part, and they'll hope to pick it up really quick or else they'll be in strife against nVidias card.

 

[Commander Suzdal]

Not bashing or anything, but how much would a 'good' yield of 24/32 pipe cards be? Super-Duper-Ultra-High-End cards are just a drop in the bucket of video card sales after all...

I think this gets to the heart of the matter. Chips that qualify at lower levels will be usable farther down the pricepoint ladder, of course. So the key questions are, how high a percentage do they need to fill orders for top-end cards, and how do these yield numbers compare to historical yields for both nVidia and ATI? I think that kind of info would be very educational for us fans of the industry, I just wonder if it would ever be made available.

 

[BigDaddy85]

I don't believe this bullshit.

 

[pxc]

An impossible story to verify so it may just be a fabrication, keep that in mind kids.

vr-zone isn't exactly a reliable site, and many of their recent rumors have been totally wrong. But we'll see next month for sure. I still think R520 will be very late. ATI dropped hints in the investor conference call a few weeks ago (no revenue this quarter for 90nm), which implies a paper launch next month.

 

[Zinn]

ATI has had to refab the R520 on a 110nm process. They have good yields at 28 pipes, and marginal at 32. It looks like the equivalent of the "Platinum edition" of their next gen card will have a 32 pipe R520 running, and the "XT" and "Pro" equivalents will have 28 and 24 respectively. Expect a $599 price tag on the 32 pipe model (which will be clocked at 650/1300)

These pipes won't be as "optimized" as Nvidia's pipes so we can expect to see the 7800 GTX maintain a lead on the R520 Pro, but the 28 and 32 pipe R520s will dominate. Crossfire edition cards will be released in December and will give 7800 GTX SLI a run for its money, at which point Nvidia will release the 7850 Ultra.

I got this information from a reliable source.

Oh by the way, I'm referring to their 3rd tape out here. Cards should be available in September.

 

[texuspete00]

Thanks for the insider info Zinn! U fugging rule!!!

 

[Elimi'Xed]

ATI has had to refab the R520 on a 110nm process. They have good yields at 28 pipes, and marginal at 32. It looks like the equivalent of the "Platinum edition" of their next gen card will have a 32 pipe R520 running, and the "XT" and "Pro" equivalents will have 28 and 24 respectively. Expect a $599 price tag on the 32 pipe model (which will be clocked at 650/1300)

These pipes won't be as "optimized" as Nvidia's pipes so we can expect to see the 7800 GTX maintain a lead on the R520 Pro, but the 28 and 32 pipe R520s will dominate. Crossfire edition cards will be released in December and will give 7800 GTX SLI a run for its money, at which point Nvidia will release the 7850 Ultra.

I got this information from a reliable source.

Oh by the way, I'm referring to their 3rd tape out here. Cards should be available in September.

Made me laugh

 

[coz]

I got this information from a reliable source.

Fuad Abazovic I presume?

 

[BigDaddy85]

ATI has had to refab the R520 on a 110nm process. They have good yields at 28 pipes, and marginal at 32. It looks like the equivalent of the "Platinum edition" of their next gen card will have a 32 pipe R520 running, and the "XT" and "Pro" equivalents will have 28 and 24 respectively. Expect a $599 price tag on the 32 pipe model (which will be clocked at 650/1300)

These pipes won't be as "optimized" as Nvidia's pipes so we can expect to see the 7800 GTX maintain a lead on the R520 Pro, but the 28 and 32 pipe R520s will dominate. Crossfire edition cards will be released in December and will give 7800 GTX SLI a run for its money, at which point Nvidia will release the 7850 Ultra.

I got this information from a reliable source.

Oh by the way, I'm referring to their 3rd tape out here. Cards should be available in September.

... :-/ --> Baw hahahahahahaha wtf lollersk8 omfgbbqhax roflcopter boom headshot!!!

 

[wizzackr]

vr-zone isn't exactly a reliable site, and many of their recent rumors have been totally wrong.

QFT - at least that is my *feeling* as well. With so much rumors floating about there should definitely be a site with some kind of scoreboard keeping track of all the rumors vs what actually turned out to be true - that way we could have a BS-index for all the rumor-sites on the net...

 

[Flak Monkey]

QFT - at least that is my *feeling* as well. With so much rumors floating about there should definitely be a site with some kind of scoreboard keeping track of all the rumors vs what actually turned out to be true - that way we could have a BS-index for all the rumor-sites on the net...

Thats are really good idea! Are you volunteering?

 

[chrisf6969]

nvidia is spreading these rumors to hurt ATI because they know the new ATI card will destroy them

take the bait and run.....take the bait and run....Im obviously talking out of my ass. I wouldnt believe anything until the card is actually OUT.

Nvidia doesn't need to spread rumors like this.

They have shipping cards, shipping SLI, etc..

ATI has last gen cards shipping (while very fast, still last gen), no crossfire, no next gen cards.

I think its The Inq spreading FUDO!!

 

[Elias]

This is also the first real high end 3D chip created in-house by ATI, so there is going to be a slight learning curve as well.

I think there only major problem was trying to release a high end part using the new process instead of using mid-range or low end chips that use less transistors and make the transition easier.

However they will probably use this process for the next several generations so there should not be as many delays.

It's not so much screwing up as it is trial an error. The problem is that each error can cost a lot of money and time.

The VR-Zone article actually says the wafers are being produced at TSMC - not at ATIs manufacturing facilities. Big difference.

We heard that the last R520 spin at TSMC is at 3% yield rate for 24 pipes and we can certainly expect a much lower yield for 32-pipes R520.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about what TSMC actually does. From their website:

Founded in 1987, TSMC is the world's largest dedicated semiconductor foundry. As the founder and leader of this industry, TSMC has built its reputation by offering advanced wafer production processes and unparalleled manufacturing efficiency. From its inception, TSMC has consistently offered its customers the foundry industry's leading technologies. The company's manufacturing capacity is currently about 4.3 million wafers, while its revenues represent some 50% of the global foundry market.

The fact that the process has very low yield suggests that the chips themselves may be very complicated (and thus difficult to manufacture without defect). TSMC is no stranger to the 90nm process, and they make other 90nm chips for other uses (the GPUs for upcoming consoles will be made there as well, IIRC).

I would speculate that the yield was that low for the other tape-outs, not the current one. There have also been articles saying that yields since the current tape-out are good.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24540

 

[Richthofen]

I honestly don't even believe that R520 has 32 pipes anymore...I think it will be 16 or 24 pipelines that just do more work per clock...

It will have 16 pipes. I am almost 90% certain on that. People with some informations @beyond3d seem to indicate that as well.

So ATI probably has problems getting good yields because its a new process and they need insane clockspeeds to match or beat a higher clocked G70 version. I don't think ATI is aiming for the GTX. They know that Nvidia easily can increase clockspeeds on the same 0.11 micron process simply by using a dual slot cooling design.
So i would say ATI is aiming at at least 600 to 650 MHZ and can't get good yields at the moment. Pretty bad for them because it gives Nvidia a lot of time to go on with their 0.09 micron shrink.

 

[Scroatdog]

I think we've all become those impatient kids who want to know what they are getting for Christmas BEFORE Christmas day. LOL (for those with different religious beliefs, insert appropriate holiday scenario )

Trust me, I am just as guilty. By September, we will know for sure.

I don't think ATI is aiming for the GTX. They know that Nvidia easily can increase clockspeeds on the same 0.11 micron process simply by using a dual slot cooling design.

They're not?? Are you implying they are not trying to come up with a Geforce killer, or that they are aiming to beat what they think nVidia will come up with in response (ala 7800 Ultra). If it's the former, I don't agree with you. If it is the latter, then, yes, I would agree.

Of course, we should all realize that the absence of this card, and the rumored problems and delays are creating an artificial demand for it already. I know I want one that is, unless it is teh suck.

 

[trinibwoy]

The VR-Zone article actually says the wafers are being produced at TSMC - not at ATIs manufacturing facilities. Big difference.

Neither Nvidia or ATi have their own fabs. He meant "designed" in-house, not manufactured when he said "created" - or do you know of some secret ATi fab hidden away in the Canadian wilds?

 

[Old_Way]

Nice hidden message ToyYoda03.

 

[Elias]

Neither Nvidia or ATi have their own fabs. He meant "designed" in-house, not manufactured when he said "created" - or do you know of some secret ATi fab hidden away in the Canadian wilds?

Thanks for clarifying what he meant. Perhaps you understood this, but I'm pretty sure that it could have been misread by many others. And you could've made your point without the smart-alek comment at the end.

 

[BigDaddy85]

I honestly don't even believe that R520 has 32 pipes anymore...I think it will be 16 or 24 pipelines that just do more work per clock...

It's 90nm gpu processor so it should fit 32 pipelines in it dependin on the number of transistor in there.

 

[dR.Jester]

ATI = meh

nVidia has proven themselves pretty damn worthy in my book since the release of the 6800 series so there is no reason for me to go with anything different.

 

[IsaacS]

There is no doubt that ATI has had serious problems with its Fudo chip. Unless ATI brings out a fully working Fudo soon and which is fully obtainable via retail outlets at launch, it could end up bringing down the comnpany via knock on effects. It's recent corporate figures were appalling, whereas Nvidia's were fantastic.

In fact Ati's share price has collapsed this year and is down almost 50% year on year and the only reason why it is trading above $12 at the moment is due to take-over speculation.

 

[FanATIc]

There is no doubt that ATI has had serious problems with its Fudo chip. Unless ATI brings out a fully working Fudo soon and which is fully obtainable via retail outlets at launch, it could end up bringing down the comnpany via knock on effects. It's recent corporate figures were appalling, whereas Nvidia's were fantastic.

In fact Ati's share price has collapsed this year and is down almost 50% year on year and the only reason why it is trading above $12 at the moment is due to take-over speculation.

So, what business school did you attend/brokerage house do you work for to make such an idiotic link?

Dont be a retard, you have no idea what you're talking about one bit. Good/bad stock prices does not equal "oh shit they're fucked for life!"